CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[maru2501]

was wondering about this the other day on the Kennedy. If money were no object, would you put the ORD express train up on poles over the expressway or tunnel under it?

[emathias]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Greg Hinz also points out that the Green Line was rebuilt two decades ago (but did that cover the south side branches too?). ...

Yes, it did, and they shut down the whole damn line for two years while they worked on it. The lesson learned from that was that you don't shut down a line for two years and expect ridership to bounce back very well. Hence why the Pink Line rebuild did not shut down the line and took twice as long but didn't result in a collapse of ridership.

Originally Posted by maru2501

was wondering about this the other day on the Kennedy. If money were no object, would you put the ORD express train up on poles over the expressway or tunnel under it?

If money were no object, I'd personally want a deep tunnel going directly, as the crow flies, between O'Hare and downtown. Safe from the weather, no impact on adjacent uses, can go as fast as acceleration allows it to. It seems like if you did it that way, you could make that into a 15 minute trip, departure to arrival. If money were no object, allowing it to be that fast would mean you could afford two stops at O'Hare (main terminals and international), and two, maybe even three, stops downtown (Water Tower, Central Loop, McCormick), without making the longest segment uncompetitive.

Actually an express from ORD to downtown could be a pretty good use case for a "hyperloop" system, and having it in an underground tunnel would probably make it safer from an engineering standpoint. Of course if something failed catastrophically it would make it much harder to rescue and recover from, too.

Of course money is always a factor.

[Busy Bee]

An Ohare hyperloop. Just when I thought Id heard it all.

Here's one vote for a thread for transit if money was no object. Another for transit if politics was no object. Maybe just combine the two. I'd never get anything done...

[ardecila]

I imagine the study being performed now for the O'Hare Express will explore a few different alignments, considering capital cost, travel time, and terminal locations at each end.

The original (Daley-era) study included an option to build a fourth track along UP-NW and then an elevated structure above the Kennedy from Austin westward, but Daley decided to move forward with an option running expresses on the Blue Line.

There's also an alignment following the current route of the Metra NCS line, and an alignment using CSX's Altenheim Sub through River Forest, maybe using the Eisenhower corridor or UP-W to reach the Loop.

[UPChicago]

"Make no big plans, they have no magic to stir men's tax bill" - Current Chicagoans

[Kngkyle]

www.brandnewsubway.com

I thought some of you might enjoy this. It's a nifty tool that lets you build your own metro system. Unfortunately the only pre-loaded map option is New York, so you'd have to start from scratch in Chicago. It does let you save your map though. I played around with it a bit - nothing too scientific or well thought out. Couple screenshots below.





(fully expecting people to criticize my fake map now)

[UPChicago]

My own fake map, made with illustrator

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Looks like a colossal waste of money. For the money you would be better off connecting Brown to Blue and triple tracking most of the way out to O'hare from there. THAT would provide much better access to O'hare AND add a lot of value to the everyday riders along those routes. I have no idea the obsession with the express train. It is just not worth it in my book.

Looks like a colossal expenditure of money. For less money you probably could just TBM a mile or two tunnel from the NCS.

Also, do you have any clue what you're responding to? Those renderings could be exactly what you yourself are suggesting, just with a new terminal station.


If Brown is connected to Blue, that's nice, but it has extremely little to do with solving the airport access issue. If the Kennedy is widened, that would indeed be a wet dream of triple or twin double-tracking, but the concept of highway expansion hasn't been broached at all, so it's like a discussion where money is no object.

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

It's obviously a very preliminary place-holder design but still interesting to see where the planner's minds are first heading.....

via Chicago Reader via the City of Chicago

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...t?oid=21215854

Those renders are 12 months old, before Parsons Brinckerhoff was hired to examine routes, so they indeed reflect ideas that are now just place-holders. However they do remind us that the the idea of demolishing the Hilton could really open up space for better rail connections, even if just improving the pokey ATS and its podunk-scaled stations (only 1 tiny elevator and 1 narrow escalator per station) or, say, extending the CTA tunnel a couple hundred feet and have a modern-spec station where even express trains (with separate fare control) could berth.

Tantalizingly, demolishing the Hilton would also finally make productive all the under-used space on its north side, which is now just an intercity bus depot occupying what used to be Terminal 4 plus like 5 roadway lanes. The T4 bus depot could easily -- and should -- be relocated to the CONRAC area, so when combined with the dead space south of the Hilton, there's a very large area of land with tremendous potential.

Demolishing the Hilton would be somewhat of an architecture and planning loss. However new hotel construction is already being planned on the massive surface lot nearby. Afterwards, a modern hotel structure could even be erected in the space left over after redevelopment, nicely monetizing that land and providing amenities. I don't think any contractual terms with Hilton would be an obstacle.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Those renders are 12 months old, before Parsons Brinckerhoff was hired to examine routes, so they indeed reflect ideas that are now just place-holders. However they do remind us that the the idea of demolishing the Hilton could really open up space for better rail connections, even if just improving the pokey ATS and its podunk-scaled stations (only 1 tiny elevator and 1 narrow escalator per station) or, say, extending the CTA tunnel a couple hundred feet and have a modern-spec station where even express trains (with separate fare control) could berth.

Tantalizingly, demolishing the Hilton would also finally make productive all the under-used space on its north side, which is now just an intercity bus depot occupying what used to be Terminal 4 plus like 5 roadway lanes. The T4 bus depot could easily -- and should -- be relocated to the CONRAC area, so when combined with the dead space south of the Hilton, there's a very large area of land with tremendous potential.

Demolishing the Hilton would be somewhat of an architecture and planning loss. However new hotel construction is already being planned on the massive surface lot nearby. Afterwards, a modern hotel structure could even be erected in the space left over after redevelopment, nicely monetizing that land and providing amenities. I don't think any contractual terms with Hilton would be an obstacle.

IIRC, the city has expressed it's intent to renovate and expand the existing hotel and is looking for operators/developers to do that. I presume Hilton's agreement is up or will be soon.

I'm also pretty sure the shuttle bus center is going out to the CONRAC.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Also, do you have any clue what you're responding to? Those renderings could be exactly what you yourself are suggesting, just with a new terminal station.


If Brown is connected to Blue, that's nice, but it has extremely little to do with solving the airport access issue. If the Kennedy is widened, that would indeed be a wet dream of triple or twin double-tracking, but the concept of highway expansion hasn't been broached at all, so it's like a discussion where money is no object.

Could be a new station but that would be an even bigger waste of money in my book since you already have 1 for the Blue line. Personally i would just rather see upgrades to the L system instead(some i listed before). I see no need for all this money for an airport express to begin with. I used to go to Ohare every week for work on the Blue line. If i was sick of it i drove. Nobody is making their decision to come to Chicago based on if we have an express train from the airport. If they are the type to ride public tran they will. If they are a business traveler they are expensing a cab or limo anyway. Improving access to Ohare from the west would be a wise choice also, maybe do something more with that shiny new highway that dead ends at York Rd.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Could be a new station but that would be an even bigger waste of money in my book since you already have 1 for the Blue line. Personally i would just rather see upgrades to the L system instead(some i listed before). I see no need for all this money for an airport express to begin with. I used to go to Ohare every week for work on the Blue line. If i was sick of it i drove. Nobody is making their decision to come to Chicago based on if we have an express train from the airport. If they are the type to ride public tran they will. If they are a business traveler they are expensing a cab or limo anyway. Improving access to Ohare from the west would be a wise choice also, maybe do something more with that shiny new highway that dead ends at York Rd.

Agreed. NYC doesn't even have train access to JFK or LaGuardia. I'd rather see infill stations and expansion of what we do have. Also the connector project.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Agreed. NYC doesn't even have train access to JFK or LaGuardia. I'd rather see infill stations and expansion of what we do have. Also the connector project.

NYC has access to JFK from the A at Howard Beach and LIRR/E-J-Z at Jamaica via Airtrain. Seems that Cuomo is also serious about building an LGA Airtrain to Willets Point LIRR/7...though I can think of few less pleasurable things than trying to manhandle luggage on the frequently packed 7 trains.

I wouldn't be opposed to express ORD rail if it was part of a larger scheme that involved Amtrak's Hiawatha Service and Metra (some version of the Crossrail proposal). As a dedicated airport only express I think the financial case is pretty dubious based upon other cities experiences.

[M II A II R II K]

City Not Enforcing Traffic Laws to Help Loop Link Run Smoothly: Records

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigat...413792133.html

.....

- A Freedom of Information Act request was filed to learn how often police have cited drivers for driving in the CTA lanes. Each violation is supposed to come with a $90 fine. The answer: Never. Police confirm they have no record of any citation ever written for these traffic interlopers. --- According to Schwieterman, bus lanes are not seen as a red flag area where drivers are going to be ticketed. He added, “Until you start having enforcement, word doesn’t spread in a way that people are going to listen.”

.....

[IrishIllini]

This may have been covered before, but does anyone know what the rail line that runs under the L tracks and branches under State at the intersection of 13th Street and State is/was used for? Is it access for the freight tunnels under downtown?

[sukwoo]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

This may have been covered before, but does anyone know what the rail line that runs under the L tracks and branches under State at the intersection of 13th Street and State is/was used for? Is it access for the freight tunnels under downtown?

That's the Red line subway portal.

[ardecila]

Before the CTA introduced colored line names in the 1990s, trains from Howard used to run to Jackson Park/63rd using that portal. In the 90s, CTA built a new subway tunnel between Roosevelt and Cermak-Chinatown, allowing for today's Red Line service from Howard to 95th.

After this rejiggering, the old subway portal was no longer needed. Now it's just used to switch cars between yards, or for temporary reroutes due to emergency or construction on the Loop tracks.

[Mr Downtown]

^And that portal will again be used many times a day this year. To aid construction of the new 95th St. terminal, every other rush period Red Line North train will be sent to the Green Line South rather than to 95th. I'm guessing this is so they can only use a single track at the 95th terminal to turn trains back north; that rush period headways are too frequent to get one train headed back north before a second one arrives.

[joeg1985]

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

City Not Enforcing Traffic Laws to Help Loop Link Run Smoothly: Records

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigat...413792133.html

News flash at 11: City not enforcing traffic laws." This is probably one of the biggest problems in Chicago. There is an atmosphere of lawlessness in this city. Hardly any drivers in any part of the city follow the rules of the road. CPD needs to start really enforcing these things. Maybe then crime would start to go down in the city. If people were more aware that they are being watched.

[MayorOfChicago]

^ Why can't they hook cameras up to the buses to take photos? that would seem the easiest way. Hell, give the drivers cameras.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago

^ Why can't they hook cameras up to the buses to take photos? that would seem the easiest way. Hell, give the drivers cameras.

IIRC, a state law would be required to allow that.