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  #1541  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2023, 5:10 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
There also does not appear to be any sort of roadway through the eastern woods of Dartmouth and nothing crossing the lakes
No Mic Mac Rotary!

Great photo. Really narrows the time frame.
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  #1542  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 7:25 PM
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Dartmouth sugar refinery:





https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/com...rtmouth_plant/

70's dockyard with the naval clock (1767) visible on the fire station.


http://www.forposterityssake.ca/SE/SE0064.htm
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  #1543  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 7:28 PM
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The area around the refinery, around Imperoyal, and out toward Eastern Passage is interesting. It is older than you might expect and a lot of the old industry is now completely gone. I didn't know there was a sugar refinery there. The Dartmouth ropeworks, the factory on Barrington, Moirs, and the factories around Robie Street are similar.

The Maritimes experienced a lot of early de-industrialization while industry in most of Canada was booming during the 1880-1929 period. I'd say that the survival rate of the old brick factories and warehouses was lower than in many other areas, although part of that may simply be that they closed down so long ago. Then again, NS Textiles was demolished just a couple years ago.
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  #1544  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 12:44 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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The color picture of the sugar refinery at the top is clearly a Photoshop job as it shows buildings and infrastructure around it that were not there when the building was still standing.

The photo of the Dockyard cannot be from the 1970s as it shows Purdy's tower in the background.
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  #1545  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 1:11 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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The photo of the Dockyard cannot be from the 1970s as it shows Purdy's tower in the background.
Appears to me to be a 70s shot for sure. I don't see either of the Purdy's Wharf towers in that shot, but I do see the Bank of Montreal tower (circa 1971-ish). Also HMCS St. Croix (DDE-256) at the bottom left, was decommissioned by the mid-70s, so the photo must have been taken in the first half of the decade.

Last edited by Saul Goode; Sep 25, 2023 at 1:29 PM.
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  #1546  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
Appears to me to be a 70s shot for sure. I don't see either of the Purdy's Wharf towers in that shot, but I do see the Bank of Montreal tower (circa 1971-ish). Also HMCS St. Croix (DDE-256) at the bottom left, was decommissioned by the mid-70s, so the photo must have been taken in the first half of the decade.
Looking at it a second time, my mistake. I mistook what is the BMO Building for Purdy's #1.
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  #1547  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2023, 11:44 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The color picture of the sugar refinery at the top is clearly a Photoshop job as it shows buildings and infrastructure around it that were not there when the building was still standing.
If you click on the imgur link in the reddit post, it is clear that the original photo was photoshopped onto a Google satellite view. Presumably just to show modern context for those who weren't aware of the sugar refinery's location.

Here's the original photo from the post (looks like a colourized b&w photo):


Source

The NS Archives has some interesting photos of the refinery, including this construction photo from 1884:

Source

There are also some cool photos from when it was converted to a Volvo assembly plant:


Source
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  #1548  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2023, 12:07 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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For a vintage location perspective, the Halifax Municipal Archives has this pic of the Sugar refinery/Volvo plant from September, 1963. In the background you can see the "Circ" (hwy 111) as a relatively new (built 1960) 2-lane highway.



https://archive.halifax.ca/archive/f...8-5ceaf3ebeb23
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  #1549  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2023, 5:50 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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In the background you can see the "Circ" (hwy 111) as a relatively new (built 1960) 2-lane highway.
Which until the mid-70s was actually interrupted by a four-way stop (with overhanging flashing light) at Portland Street - hard to believe now!
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  #1550  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Those "company houses" (I assume) across the road were interesting. Long gone now obviously. I wonder when they went away?

Sugar refineries are fascinating places. I recently looked at a retrospective of the massive Domino Sugar refinery in NYC which had a number of old photos. They used huge amounts of energy to essentially boil down the cane or beet juice to make it into crystalline form. I wonder if the process today is still similar. It seemed it would be massively expensive and environmentally harmful.
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  #1551  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2023, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Those "company houses" (I assume) across the road were interesting. Long gone now obviously. I wonder when they went away?

Sugar refineries are fascinating places. I recently looked at a retrospective of the massive Domino Sugar refinery in NYC which had a number of old photos. They used huge amounts of energy to essentially boil down the cane or beet juice to make it into crystalline form. I wonder if the process today is still similar. It seemed it would be massively expensive and environmentally harmful.
Have you read about the Boston molasses plant explosion/disaster?
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  #1552  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2023, 8:01 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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In recent discussions about a potential third harbour crossing, it occurs to me that most people probably think of the Macdonald Bridge as the first harbour crossing.

In actuality, this was the first:

Source
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  #1553  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2023, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
In recent discussions about a potential third harbour crossing, it occurs to me that most people probably think of the Macdonald Bridge as the first harbour crossing.

In actuality, this was the first:
Yikes! Less than six years of lifespan
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  #1554  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2023, 9:58 PM
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Yikes! Less than six years of lifespan
I think it was a wooden pontoon bridge (with the base not going to the harbour floor) built with Victorian technology so not really surprising.
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  #1555  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2023, 10:07 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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https://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/...0of%20Halifax.

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The wooden trestle-work of the bridge, constructed by M.J. Hogan of Quebec, rested on eight foot stone-filled cribs, spaced on the harbour bottom every 10 feet (3.0 m). The piles were then secured to the cribs. As the depth of the water was about 75 feet the piles had to be built in three sections, and spliced with eight-inch deals (basically an 8″ long plank) spiked into place. This proved to be extremely weak, especially when no form of side-bracing was used.

A hurricane hit Halifax on Monday evening September 7, 1891. The storm caused damage to wharves and shipping in harbour. The bridge was destroyed. Nothing remained the next morning but a few broken timbers and some trestles in shallow water.
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  #1556  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2023, 10:53 PM
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Ah so it wasn't floating, but maybe that's even worse if you're trying to go 75 feet down.
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  #1557  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2023, 1:39 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Ah so it wasn't floating, but maybe that's even worse if you're trying to go 75 feet down.
It was fine for 5+ years, but I suppose stone-filled cribs weren't up to the job of hurricane-force winds and storm surge. Or maybe it was the splicing. We'll probably never know exactly.

I would say you were on point with Victorian technology built to an apparently low budget (the Brooklyn Bridge opened in 1883 and is still standing, so perhaps if a lot of money was spent using the latest technology for the time, it would have been okay).
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  #1558  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2023, 5:07 PM
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It was fine for 5+ years, but I suppose stone-filled cribs weren't up to the job of hurricane-force winds and storm surge. Or maybe it was the splicing. We'll probably never know exactly.

I would say you were on point with Victorian technology built to an apparently low budget (the Brooklyn Bridge opened in 1883 and is still standing, so perhaps if a lot of money was spent using the latest technology for the time, it would have been okay).
Maybe the issue was the technician, and not the technology?
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  #1559  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2023, 5:22 PM
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It was fine for 5+ years, but I suppose stone-filled cribs weren't up to the job of hurricane-force winds and storm surge. Or maybe it was the splicing. We'll probably never know exactly.
It was fine until it got hit by a hurricane type storm, and they come around every 5-10 years or so.

The bridge may not really have been such a tragedy if it was planned as an affordable semi-permanent structure. A bridge like the Brooklyn Bridge would have been a national level megaproject back then, and let's be honest about the chances of 19th century Canada paying for something like that in NS...
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  #1560  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2023, 5:38 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Maybe the issue was the technician, and not the technology?
Maybe, but I can't help feeling that in modern times, supports for such structures are anchored into the seabed for some reason.

In history, it is often the failures that lead to improved standards moving forward, so keeping it in perspective, perhaps this failure led to improvements in future designs, or simply waiting for the technology to improve for future bridges to be built better, and affordably?

Or maybe there was nothing wrong with the first two bridge designs, but their fate was sealed by the Mi'kmaq curse that was said to be placed upon them. Perhaps nobody will ever know...

Quote:
According to historian Blair Beed, more than 130 years ago in the Victorian era of the 1880s and 1890s, it was a busy time for Halifax during the boom of the industrial age.

"So they really needed more transportation links and they picked the railway as a way to do it," said Beed. "A bridge across the narrow part of the harbour was the way to do it."

At first the bridge was a major success.

"It was a busy bridge," said Beed, who added some Indigenous people at the time did not approve of the structure.

Based on 19th century lore a curse was placed on the harbour and on the bridge.

"Three times it will rise and three times will fall," said Beed of the supposed curse. "The first with wind, the second with silence and the third with lots of blood."

The first bridge disappeared during a major storm in 1891. It was replaced by a second bridge that quietly sank into the ocean in the dark of night in 1893. There were no injuries or lives lost.

The A Murray Mackay Bridge was built on the same site as the first two that were washed away.

"Though the MacDonald is the third built," said Beed. "They actually had a chief come and remove the curse at that time, in 1955."
https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/story-be...dges-1.5875458
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