Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Good news for flames fans

Why do all these lazy ass MSM reporters keep talking to the same one and only guy about arena and stadium building? Moshe Lander, an economist with Concordia University with a research interest in sports and infrastructure probably knows as much as the people posting here. This is the same guy who thought they should build a 30-40k stadium in Halifax. Every article, same guy, same negative BS. No wonder no one trusts MSM anymore.

[MalcolmTucker]

The economics perspective is it almost never makes sense to build an arena. Unfortunately no one runs a large sports facilities makes great communities research practice.

They can only talk to people who they can find.

[J.OT13]

The arena deal was scrapped a little over a year ago because of rising costs, but an arena today will be far more expensive. I don't get it.

Is there anyway to go the Madison Square Garden route and renovate the arena? Obviously, MSG's renos were more expensive than a new arena, but that's the nature of NYC. Is the Saddledome completely unsalvageable?

[esquire]

^ Yeah, you kind of wonder whether the conditions even lend themselves to building a venue now. I mean, it's one thing if the old arena burned down and you needed something stat because you simply had no usable venue. But Calgary does actually have a venue which is up to the job.

If Calgary could barely make the case for a new $600 million arena before, what makes the need so urgent that they have to spend $1 billion or whatever that same arena would cost today? It doesn't really make sense.

[O-tacular]

The Saddledome is approaching a point where it needs a very expensive retrofit that would displace the team. There are structural issues with the roof. CSEC in all of its greedy, lazy incompetence waited so long that now I expect a value engineered HP printer design made of EIFS panels and faux brick. I really wish the Flames ownership would change. Murray Edwards is almost as bad as Eugene Melnick was.

[J.OT13]

It's too bad the City and the Flames didn't take the opportunity for a full renovation when the arena flooded in 2013. The Flames could have played out of Edmonton for a year. At this point, the roof would be the only thing needing major work.

[Acajack]

In terms of its exterior look the Saddledome is my favourite arena in Canada by a longshot.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's too bad the City and the Flames didn't take the opportunity for a full renovation when the arena flooded in 2013. The Flames could have played out of Edmonton for a year. At this point, the roof would be the only thing needing major work.

Replacing the roof would be like building a new arena around the old. You get a lot of cost for only marginal benefits.

I'm hopeful a new plan will come together where you don't end up with a camel arena with too much scope cramed into too small of a site. A fair amount of the costs came from stacking things up instead of growing out imo.

[esquire]

Just how bad is the roof? Is it an actual problem like "whoa the roof is leaking and possibly going to fail" or is it just "Taylor Swift can only hang 48 out of the 50 light bars she uses for her concerts from the roof"?

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's too bad the City and the Flames didn't take the opportunity for a full renovation when the arena flooded in 2013. The Flames could have played out of Edmonton for a year. At this point, the roof would be the only thing needing major work.

They could have played in the Corral but its gone now.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by esquire

Just how bad is the roof? Is it an actual problem like "whoa the roof is leaking and possibly going to fail" or is it just "Taylor Swift can only hang 48 out of the 50 light bars she uses for her concerts from the roof"?

It is Taylor Swift cannot even hang half the light bars so does two Edmonton shows instead of coming to Calgary, and the roof is slowly failing. It is both held up by a cable net which is failing, and the ring where the net is supported is post tensioned by cables which are also failing. The ring's concrete is also failing.

It is all being monitored and is safe, but there isn't a plan to stabilize let alone rehabilitate the structure beyond replacement.

It is both less bad than you might think (no imminent risk) and more bad (it will fail, it is only a matter of time and the likelihood increases as time passes).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

They could have played in the Corral but its gone now.

Oh yeah. It came down in 2020-2021. Would have been cool to have them back to their original (Calgary) arena for a season or two. Higher capacity than the Coyotes temporary digs

On the whole roof conversation, that seems to be the major issue with Ottawa Civic Centre. Again, no immediate danger, but I do believe that's the reason we no longer have a jumbotron. Feels incomplete without the jumbotron.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Place_Arena

[esquire]

Interesting. So it sounds like the clock is ticking on the Saddledome.

I guess it does speak to the idea that doing something too unconventional with the roof isn't necessarily a great idea. Wasn't this the same issue with the 'crushed can' in Moose Jaw? I vaguely remember hearing something about the roof failing there, but I'm not sure if that was true.

[blueandgoldguy]

IT blows my mind that a city with the corporate wealth of Calgary is still struggling to gather funding for a new NHL arena. I would think it's the one mid-sized Canadian city in which over half of the arena financing would be private.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of its exterior look the Saddledome is my favourite arena in Canada by a longshot.

Honestly besides the concourse and bathrooms the interior is awesome too. The curved ceiling is beautiful and gives a sense of vertigo. Unique among modern arenas.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

IT blows my mind that a city with the corporate wealth of Calgary is still struggling to gather funding for a new NHL arena. I would think it's the one mid-sized Canadian city in which over half of the arena financing would be private.

You underestimate corporate greed. Edwards could easily fund it himself.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

IT blows my mind that a city with the corporate wealth of Calgary is still struggling to gather funding for a new NHL arena. I would think it's the one mid-sized Canadian city in which over half of the arena financing would be private.

The past deal was pretty good. 50/50 upfront funding, with the city collecting back maybe 60% of its share overtime on a net present value basis, or 100% of its share on a cash accounting basis. The Flames overestimated their ability to contract for a large capital project, got sticker shock, and pulled the plug.

[thurmas]

It feels like the u.s. can build so many and different unique and interesting arenas and stadiums for pro sports and ncaa and Canada now can barely build a pop up stadium in Halifax or a replacement arena in Calgary just feels like the world is passing us by in these things recently.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

Interesting. So it sounds like the clock is ticking on the Saddledome.

I guess it does speak to the idea that doing something too unconventional with the roof isn't necessarily a great idea. Wasn't this the same issue with the 'crushed can' in Moose Jaw? I vaguely remember hearing something about the roof failing there, but I'm not sure if that was true.

Wow, that was an interesting arena.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose_...vic_Centre.JPG

I imagine inverted roof designs like Moose Jaw and Saddledome are probably terrible for snow accumulation. With a flat roof, the snow will be relatively spread out across the entire structure. With these designs, the load is concentrated in the middle. Has that actually been an issue? Was there a way to deal with this?

Originally Posted by thurmas

It feels like the u.s. can build so many and different unique and interesting arenas and stadiums for pro sports and ncaa and Canada now can barely build a pop up stadium in Halifax or a replacement arena in Calgary just feels like the world is passing us by in these things recently.

In the U.S. pro sports team are infamous for threatening to move if their new digs aren't largely paid (if not fully) by the public sector. Gun to their heads, Cities and States often do it. Even bankrupt Detroit fell for it. They threaten here as well, but not since the 90s have they actually pulled the trigger.

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Honestly besides the concourse and bathrooms the interior is awesome too. The curved ceiling is beautiful and gives a sense of vertigo. Unique among modern arenas.

If it wasn't for the roof, it sounds like they could just expand the concourse by creating a "podium" at the base of the arena.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Oh yeah. It came down in 2020-2021. Would have been cool to have them back to their original (Calgary) arena for a season or two. Higher capacity than the Coyotes temporary digs

On the whole roof conversation, that seems to be the major issue with Ottawa Civic Centre. Again, no immediate danger, but I do believe that's the reason we no longer have a jumbotron. Feels incomplete without the jumbotron.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Place_Arena

It actually looks really good without it. Nothing to distract the view of the ice on the periphery.