PHILADELPHIA | Live! Hotel & Casino | 215 FT | 13 FLOORS

[PhilliesPhan]

Delayed For Years, Philadelphia’s 2nd Casino is Finally Happening

Read more at: http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phill...ally-happening

[Mr Saturn64]

Well. Are they building it at the Holiday Inn site?

[TechTalkGuy]

That’s great news, PhilliesPhan!

Some renders:





Source

[Daario]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

That’s great news, PhilliesPhan!

Some renders:





Source

It looks incredibly tacky. So perfect for a casino.

[Jayfar]

Cordish acquires 100% control of Philly stadium casino project | Philly.com

A Maryland casino operator and partner in a long-delayed South Philadelphia casino project announced Wednesday that it is taking complete ownership of the project developer, Stadium Casino LLC.
Cordish Cos. of Baltimore said it would buy out the interest of the owner of Parx Casino in Bensalem. The companies share ownership of Stadium, which plans to build the Philly Live! Hotel & Casino on the site of a former Holiday Inn at 900 Packer Ave.

[snip]

[allovertown]

Looks like this is ready to get rolling. It's hard to get excited about a casino, but I think the sports complex is the perfect spot for one. Even setting aside the casino aspect, a nice hotel and new restaurants should make a KILLING down there.

From the Inquirer:

Joseph Weinberg, managing director of Stadium Casino LLC, told state regulators Wednesday that demolition of a former Holiday Inn at 900 Packer Ave. will begin in December, and construction of the $700 million casino and hotel would begin early next year.

...

Weinberg did not mention the ongoing ownership restructuring of Stadium Casino, which is awaiting approval from the gaming board in a separate matter. But industry insiders said that the project was slowed partly by disagreements between Cordish and Greenwood Gaming, which have different corporate cultures.

Kathy M. Manderino, a gaming board member and former state representative from Philadelphia, expressed some concerns that roadblocks unforeseen could potentially trip up the project.

"Maybe you're far enough along to assure me that this is a foolish thought, but having been a former Philadelphian I've seen this project and other ones, even at late stages, kind of fall apart," she said. "I guess when you get that building permit in hand I can breathe a sigh of relief that we're not going to fall apart again?"

"We're at the final stage," Weinberg assured her. "We've been working at it hard."

The project was initially projected to cost $450 million when Cordish and Greenwood announced their partnership in 2012, but Weinberg said costs have increased as plans progressed.

The partnership initially envisioned renovating the 240-room Holiday Inn tower into a hotel, but the building's footprint is squarely in the center of the site, which conflicted with Cordish's plans for an expansive casino gaming floor.

"As we got into detailed plans for the project, we were just not happy with that building sitting in the middle of the site," he said. "It didn't allow us to have an ideal gaming floor layout for amenities. It was really more of a hindrance to the project than an asset."

The tower will now be demolished after cell-phone antennas that festoon its rooftop are relocated. Plans now call for the Live! hotel tower to rise on the north side of the casino property. The upper floors could potentially have a view over the left-field wall inside Citizens Bank Park.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/busine...-20181128.html

[Milksteak]

After going to Pittsburgh for a football game, I noticed that they almost brought the city to the stadiums. The stadiums are across the river from downtown, but surrounding everything were a bunch of what looked to be quite new low and midrises with tons of bars, hotels, and I'm guessing a handful of apartments. I view the stadium complex as a blank canvass, XFinity Live is already a huge hit...pop in a casino, a few hotels, and some surrounding infill and you've got yourself an entertainment complex accessible by both subway and major highways. The potential is certainly there, and I think a new casino strengthens that argument. Besides, allow people who want to live there to go ahead and live there...but plopping a casino and stadium in the middle of center city sounds like a headache to me.

Just for reference, this is what I'm referring to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4458...7i13312!8i6656

[McBane]

As much entertainment as can be fit in the stadium complex the better. I just hope that the developments stay true to the city's grid. What I'd really like to see is more development adjacent to the subway. That sports complex subway stop is not really that close to the actual stadiums and the walk itself - through a sea of parking lots - is not very pleasant. You get out of the subway stop and it's just completely barren.

Two other thoughts:

The hotel portion - is it going to be built right away? Outside of major gambling destinations, the hotel portion of a casino is not viable (wasn't SugarHouse supposed to have a sleek hotel tower? LOL). But in this case, there was a hotel already on site that I'm assuming did enough business to warrant its replacement.

On that note, I wonder if visiting sports teams or musicians ever stay at that Holiday Inn? And would sports teams stay here if the hotel is attached to a slots barn?

[iheartphilly]

I hope there's a plan to address and prevent crimes when the Casino is built. Like Sugarhouse, some get publicized in the news, but most do not. Since Live seems to be a higher end of a casino, I hope they make investments in their own security personnel with routine visibility patrols and use of exterior security cameras. Too easy for crooks to rob patrons and disappear onto the Interstate or where ever. Point being, people don't want to live near casino when it drives up crime rates. Kinda bad for property values and all.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

After going to Pittsburgh for a football game, I noticed that they almost brought the city to the stadiums. The stadiums are across the river from downtown, but surrounding everything were a bunch of what looked to be quite new low and midrises with tons of bars, hotels, and I'm guessing a handful of apartments. I view the stadium complex as a blank canvass, XFinity Live is already a huge hit...pop in a casino, a few hotels, and some surrounding infill and you've got yourself an entertainment complex accessible by both subway and major highways. The potential is certainly there, and I think a new casino strengthens that argument. Besides, allow people who want to live there to go ahead and live there...but plopping a casino and stadium in the middle of center city sounds like a headache to me.

Just for reference, this is what I'm referring to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4458...7i13312!8i6656

^Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't already started. There's also a huge plot of land across Broad Street that has a fence around it - prime for development.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by McBane

As much entertainment as can be fit in the stadium complex the better. I just hope that the developments stay true to the city's grid. What I'd really like to see is more development adjacent to the subway. That sports complex subway stop is not really that close to the actual stadiums and the walk itself - through a sea of parking lots - is not very pleasant. You get out of the subway stop and it's just completely barren.

Two other thoughts:

The hotel portion - is it going to be built right away? Outside of major gambling destinations, the hotel portion of a casino is not viable (wasn't SugarHouse supposed to have a sleek hotel tower? LOL). But in this case, there was a hotel already on site that I'm assuming did enough business to warrant its replacement.

On that note, I wonder if visiting sports teams or musicians ever stay at that Holiday Inn? And would sports teams stay here if the hotel is attached to a slots barn?

No sports team - professional sports stay in Holiday Inns -- only 5-star accomodations. Also, same with any musician who could play at Wells Fargo or the Linc. Four Seasons, Ritz-Carlton, or some really fancy boutique brands. Most teams have been staying at The Westin in Two Liberty since the Four Seasons closed (which is now the Logan, on the Parkway).

If the Live Casino scored some high-end hotel brand, and had a few very nice restaurants -- then I could possibly see a pro team staying there -- esp. on nights when they are playing back-to-back, thus getting to Philly at say 2-3am for a game that evening, and then jetting out.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

After going to Pittsburgh for a football game, I noticed that they almost brought the city to the stadiums. The stadiums are across the river from downtown, but surrounding everything were a bunch of what looked to be quite new low and midrises with tons of bars, hotels, and I'm guessing a handful of apartments. I view the stadium complex as a blank canvass, XFinity Live is already a huge hit...pop in a casino, a few hotels, and some surrounding infill and you've got yourself an entertainment complex accessible by both subway and major highways. The potential is certainly there, and I think a new casino strengthens that argument. Besides, allow people who want to live there to go ahead and live there...but plopping a casino and stadium in the middle of center city sounds like a headache to me.

Just for reference, this is what I'm referring to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4458...7i13312!8i6656

Agree 100%

It’s not just Pittsburgh either, but Boston, DC, St Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City, etc etc etc. So many cities have built up the areas around their stadiums. I’ve long felt that Philadelphia should do the same and learn from these cities.

The jobs are already there in the Navy Yard. Build up a residential, hotel and entertainment complex around the stadiums. Why not?? I’m actually astonished this hasn’t been thought of and done yet.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Agree 100%

It’s not just Pittsburgh either, but Boston, DC, St Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City, etc etc etc. So many cities have built up the areas around their stadiums. I’ve long felt that Philadelphia should do the same and learn from these cities.

The jobs are already there in the Navy Yard. Build up a residential, hotel and entertainment complex around the stadiums. Why not?? I’m actually astonished this hasn’t been thought of and done yet.

Didn't I hear about a residential proposal down there? Or am I crazy?

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Agree 100%

It’s not just Pittsburgh either, but Boston, DC, St Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City, etc etc etc. So many cities have built up the areas around their stadiums. I’ve long felt that Philadelphia should do the same and learn from these cities.

The jobs are already there in the Navy Yard. Build up a residential, hotel and entertainment complex around the stadiums. Why not?? I’m actually astonished this hasn’t been thought of and done yet.

I think part of the problem is that these are huge lots that require big money to convert into another use, i.e., you can't just slap a few townhomes like you would in an actual neighborhood. More feasible are the insular, mega projects that exist now (this and Xfinity Live). Residential could work but it would have be on the scale of the Piazza or that townhouse proposal on South Columbus Blvd (behind Blatstein's planned Wawa). And of course, these types of development are hugely expensive.

The second piece of it is that these parking lots are likely owned by risk-adverse people who are comfortable making big bucks off the status quo. And the economic dynamics in Center City that has resulted in nuermous parking lots being bought up by developers (skyrocketing land values and less people driving/parking) doesn't yet exist by the stadiums.

Basically, the challenge and risk of developing such large and highly profitable parking lots is not yet economically viable.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by McBane

As much entertainment as can be fit in the stadium complex the better. I just hope that the developments stay true to the city's grid. What I'd really like to see is more development adjacent to the subway. That sports complex subway stop is not really that close to the actual stadiums and the walk itself - through a sea of parking lots - is not very pleasant. You get out of the subway stop and it's just completely barren.

It would be nice to have some sort of hop on/hop off transportation that loops around the stadiums and parking lots, especially as more entertainment destinations are being constructed.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Boku

It would be nice to have some sort of hop on/hop off transportation that loops around the stadiums and parking lots, especially as more entertainment destinations are being constructed.

Perhaps one of the few types of examples of where a people-mover makes sense.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Agree 100%

It’s not just Pittsburgh either, but Boston, DC, St Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City, etc etc etc. So many cities have built up the areas around their stadiums. I’ve long felt that Philadelphia should do the same and learn from these cities.

The jobs are already there in the Navy Yard. Build up a residential, hotel and entertainment complex around the stadiums. Why not?? I’m actually astonished this hasn’t been thought of and done yet.

I don't get some of your analogies. The Boston garden is built in their central core, attached to North Station? Sure Fenway has been built up and around over time but it's a 100+year old stadium basically immediately adjacent to one of their wealthiest and most urban 'hoods (Back Bay).

What arena in San Francisco are you talking about? Giants stadium is built in South Beach? It's always been incredibly central...

D.C.s main arena is right in downtown in Chinatown, like in the heart of the city, and the Nationals Park is about a 15 minute walk from Capitol Hill.

To my knowledge none of these "examples" demo'd a massive swath of city owned land - thousand of acres worth - replaced it with nothing but a massive sea of parking in all directions, isolated 4miles from the city core - and then plopped a bunch of arenas there (one of which is active like 20 days a year). In my opinion, the reason those cities (including Pittsburgh) have built up around their arenas is b/c they didn't do that. Sins of our fathers...next arena should be near or adjacent to Center City and watch the build up around it happen.

[Londonee]

Anyways, The Battery in Atlanta...yes that Atlanta...which is a large faux-urban complex with shopping, nightlife, streets, alleys, apartments, condos, parks, and parking all adjacent to Sun Trust Park...might be the most (and we'll never do it as well as they've done it down there) we can ever dream of happening down there.

https://batteryatl.com/

[McBane]

Now that Xfinity Live is built and the casino is moving forward, the smarter thing is to build on the momentum rather than pull the rug from underneath and relocate a stadium. Thought as noted in my earlier post, this will be difficult to accomplish.

Stadiums surrounded by urbanized areas fall into two camps: 1) those that were built a long time ago (think Wrigley and Fenway) and watched the neighborhood around them grow organically and 2) those that were built more recently in or adjacent to a city's core in order to reinvigorate downtown and they're almost always surrounded by generic chain stores and restaurants.

Well, we missed the boat with #1 (but how cool would it be if Connie Mack was never demo'd) and thankfully, Philadelphia doesn't need help with #2.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I don't get some of your analogies. The Boston garden is built in their central core, attached to North Station? Sure Fenway has been built up and around over time but it's a 100+year old stadium basically immediately adjacent to one of their wealthiest and most urban 'hoods (Back Bay).

What arena in San Francisco are you talking about? Giants stadium is built in South Beach? It's always been incredibly central...

D.C.s main arena is right in downtown in Chinatown, like in the heart of the city, and the Nationals Park is about a 15 minute walk from Capitol Hill.

To my knowledge none of these "examples" demo'd a massive swath of city owned land - thousand of acres worth - replaced it with nothing but a massive sea of parking in all directions, isolated 4miles from the city core - and then plopped a bunch of arenas there (one of which is active like 20 days a year). In my opinion, the reason those cities (including Pittsburgh) have built up around their arenas is b/c they didn't do that. Sins of our fathers...next arena should be near or adjacent to Center City and watch the build up around it happen.

Disagree 100% that a stadium should be built in Center City. Where would we build it??? We would tear down blocks of urban development at this point for a stadium and parking...terrible idea. Let Center City, University City and surrounding area continue to grow organically as it is.

Plus, Philadelphia needs MORE than just Center City. I know there are other attractive areas of the city, but nobody is really VISITING any area from outside of the city except for Center City unless they're going to a game.

#1 area in the city to build up HAS to be The Sports Complex. Every area around stadiums in the country has built up in recent years with modern, new development... then they come to Philadelphia and it's parking lots...

Cordish Co. needs to complete the ENTIRE Philly/Xfinity live complex... not just the bait and switch half-ass job we got:
https://media.rsmdesign.com/2018/06/...sylvania-1.png

The city needs to follow it up by incentivizing developers to build hotels, residential, office and shopping on the parking lots between the stadiums and Broad Street.

The developments around the Stadiums in Atlanta, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are perfect examples of what to do.

#2 area to build up is North Broad
#3 area to build up is Germantown... and make it a tourist destination.
#4 area to build up is City Ave in my opinion at least between 76 and St. Joe's.