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  #221  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 8:57 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The map is as much a religious map as it is an ethnic one. Germany is primarily Catholic and Lutheran whereas England is conspicuously not Catholic. Unfortunately, the anti-Catholic sentiments brought over from England hundreds of years ago still fester in the American South.
This is true. Also interesting to see the urban counties of Kentucky (Jefferson/Louisville, Fayette/Lexington, and Campbell, Kenton, and Boone/Cincinnati) are dominated by Germans/Catholics, but the rest of the state is standard Scotch-Irish. You don't see this urban differentiation in any other Southern state.
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  #222  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 9:14 PM
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^ and on the flip side of that, urban counties in NYC, Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Indy, and KC are the only African American plurality counties north of the Mason-Dixon line.
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  #223  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 9:23 PM
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^ and on the flip side of that, urban counties in NYC, Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Indy, and KC are the only African American plurality counties north of the Mason-Dixon line.
That's not really surprising, though, is it? I guess I'm a little surprised by Cook County, as Blacks make up less than a quarter of the total population- significantly less than whites and even less than Hispanics. But I guess when you chop up those racial groups by ethnicity, none reaches the level of the relatively monolithic African American ancestry of the Black population.
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  #224  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 9:32 PM
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^ my guess is that, with continued Mexican natural increase and black fligh, Mexicans will move into first place in cook county by 2030, possibly making it the first Mexican plurality county east of the Mississippi.
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  #225  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 9:57 PM
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^ my guess is that, with continued Mexican natural increase and black fligh, Mexicans will move into first place in cook county by 2030, possibly making it the first Mexican plurality county east of the Mississippi.
That would be very interesting! I think my surprise about Cook County also stems from the much discussed Black Flight, but I suppose a lot of that movement out of the city is landing in suburban Cook County.
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  #226  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 4:14 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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what percentage of white people in the US are of a single European nationality ancestry?
A minority for sure.

Last edited by Docere; Mar 16, 2023 at 5:04 AM.
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  #227  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 4:16 AM
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English and German are clearly the most common "plain vanilla" ancestries in the country.

In fact I'm pretty sure the most common white ancestry group in every metro is English or German outside the Northeast, New Orleans and maybe South Florida.
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  #228  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 5:11 AM
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I love that map. See the odd colored Massachusetts county east of the Rhode Island border? That's Bristol County, where Portuguese ancestry is #1 and there are half a million Silvas, Santos, Mendes, and Costas. Or so it seemed growing up there.

Can anyone take a guess at why Scots-Irish, who as far as I know made up the majority of self-identified "American" ancestry, are now identifying as English instead of Scottish?
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  #229  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 1:46 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
English and German are clearly the most common "plain vanilla" ancestries in the country.
We live in an English-speaking country where English surnames dominate, in part because almost all black Americans have English surnames. There are a fair number of black Americans with German-ish last names like Miller or Thomas, but I've certainly never met one with a last name like Niederhelmen or Zirckelbach or Allendorf or Wurtzelbacher or Steubenrach or Van Wassenhove.

There are also very few conspicuously German-named places in the United States. Certainly, far more places in the United States have French names than German names, despite few French having immigrated to the United States after it was established.

Wikipedia has compiled a list of German-named places and it's not really that long, given the country's large number of German descendants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States
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  #230  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
We live in an English-speaking country where English surnames dominate, in part because almost all black Americans have English surnames. There are a fair number of black Americans with German-ish last names like Miller or Thomas, but I've certainly never met one with a last name like Niederhelmen or Zirckelbach or Allendorf or Wurtzelbacher or Steubenrach or Van Wassenhove.

There are also very few conspicuously German-named places in the United States. Certainly, far more places in the United States have French names than German names, despite few French having immigrated to the United States after it was established.

Wikipedia has compiled a list of German-named places and it's not really that long, given the country's large number of German descendants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States
That's because "we" explored a large part of the current United States before these areas were taken over either by the British or (later) the US. The Germans never had a colonial empire in America.
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  #231  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 1:56 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
This is true. Also interesting to see the urban counties of Kentucky (Jefferson/Louisville, Fayette/Lexington, and Campbell, Kenton, and Boone/Cincinnati) are dominated by Germans/Catholics, but the rest of the state is standard Scotch-Irish. You don't see this urban differentiation in any other Southern state.
People seem to not really get this - that all of the fragmenting of religion in England (the English Reformation set into motion by Henry VIII) came to the United States (and even motivated the settling of the United States), where it fragmented even more. All of the crazy evangelical stuff that goes on in the United States to this day is English in origin. By contrast, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, and Ireland were all still solidly Roman Catholic, with the exception of the Lutheran Church. The Greek and other eastern churches that established themselves in the United States aren't nutty either.

A big reason why African-American culture in the United States differs so profoundly from the descendants of slaves in Central and South America is because of the Catholic/Protestant divide. This same cultural divide still exists between the "white" factions in the United States.

Last edited by jmecklenborg; Mar 16, 2023 at 2:27 PM.
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  #232  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
I love that map. See the odd colored Massachusetts county east of the Rhode Island border? That's Bristol County, where Portuguese ancestry is #1 and there are half a million Silvas, Santos, Mendes, and Costas. Or so it seemed growing up there.

Can anyone take a guess at why Scots-Irish, who as far as I know made up the majority of self-identified "American" ancestry, are now identifying as English instead of Scottish?
I'd surmise its what's-good-for-the-goose-is-good-for-the-gander copycatting in the context of a contemporary hyper-charged focus on ethno-racial identities.
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  #233  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 2:35 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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That's because "we" explored a large part of the current United States before these areas were taken over either by the British or (later) the US. The Germans never had a colonial empire in America.
There were two more waves of French namings. In the 1790s and early 1800s, many places in the newly-settled interior were given French names in honor of France's role in the American Revolution. Louisville, KY is probably the most conspicuous example, but also all of the places given a -ville name, from Huntsville to Knoxville to Ashville to wherever.

The final wave was motivated by General Lafayette's grand tour in 1824. That's where Lafayette, IN came from, along with the many Lafayette-named streets in major cities.

BTW, St. Louis, Louisiana, and Louisville are named after different French kings:

St. Louis - Louis VIX
Louisiana - Louis XIV
Louisville - Louis XVI
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  #234  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
There were two more waves of French namings. In the 1790s and early 1800s, many places in the newly-settled interior were given French names in honor of France's role in the American Revolution. Louisville, KY is probably the most conspicuous example, but also all of the places given a -ville name, from Huntsville to Knoxville to Ashville to wherever.

The final wave was motivated by General Lafayette's grand tour in 1824. That's where Lafayette, IN came from, along with the many Lafayette-named streets in major cities.

BTW, St. Louis, Louisiana, and Louisville are named after different French kings:

St. Louis - Louis VIX
Louisiana - Louis XIV
Louisville - Louis XVI
True as well. Thanks for pointing that out.
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  #235  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 5:33 PM
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I think my surprise about Cook County also stems from the much discussed Black Flight, but I suppose a lot of that movement out of the city is landing in suburban Cook County.
Not really. Not in a way that's moving the needle anyway because cook county (and indeed all of the Chicago MSA) is also experiencing black flight.

From 2010 - 2020, the city of Chicago's black population dropped by 85K.

During that same time, cook county's black population dropped by 80K, so on balance only 5K of the city's drop went to cook county.

Overall, the Chicago MSA's black population dropped by 65K, so black flight in Chicago is mostly a story of black people moving away from the region altogether.
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  #236  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 10:13 PM
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This confirms what I thought. The mid-19th century German immigration was more from southern and western Germany and contained a lot of Catholics, while the 1880s wave was from northern and eastern German and overwhelmingly Protestant.

https://mki.wisc.edu/exhibits/npp/panel-02/
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  #237  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 10:23 PM
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Southern and Western Germany would have a large share of Lutherans too, but Catholics would likely outnumber them (if they immigrated at a roughly similar rate).

But Northern and Eastern Germany haven't had large Catholic populations in centuries, so immigration would be overwhelmingly Protestant (Lutheran).
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  #238  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 10:41 PM
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This article looks at the 1860 census - when there was some data on German states (though even then a lot were just listed as from Germany). It shows where the various groups settled.

https://medium.com/migration-issues/...e-78feab5184c7

Assuming all the unspecified Germany responses were equally distributed, there were 316,000 Prussians and 220,000 Bavarians. The Prussian population was more dispersed, the Bavarians more concentrated which may explain why German culture is associated with Bavarian culture.
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  #239  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 10:41 PM
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[double post]
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  #240  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 12:53 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Perhaps the most German aspect of American culture is...the English Language, which is primarily Germanic, not Romance.
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