NEW YORK | 2020 Census data | 8,804,190

[dchan]

Thanks for the discussion guys! I think Crawford and proghousehead might be right. The Guyanese population is definitely not 1 million. But the figure seems like it might be somewhat over 140k, partly due to many Guyanese of Indian descent possibly identifying themselves as Southeast Asian on the Census.

Also, there seem to be so many Guyanese neighborhoods, as the Youtube commenter noted in our debate. I do want to visit them some time. Field trip, anyone? (I'm actually serious here)

I became aware of the Guyanese because of two construction management (CM) classes I took. CM3 was taught by a Guyanese man of black/African descent. In that same class was a Guyanese student of white/European descent. They both spoke with that same Guyanese-Caribbean accent.

Then I realized that the previous CM class (CM2) was likely taught by a Guyanese of Indian/Southeast Asian descent. Same sort of accent too.

Guyana and its neighbors are strange countries. They're the only parts of the South American that are not considered Latin America, and have a similar culture and accent of the Caribbean islands.

[dchan]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

That would mean NYC would have more Guyanese than Guyana itself, which has a population of 743,000. It's one of the world's least populous sovereign states, with just under 1.5 times the population of staten island

I think that one of the crazier stats is the fact that NYC has 140K plus Guyanese, which is a significant fraction of the actual population of Guyana. But it's also not unheard of for Caribbean/West Indies countries, since they're so small and have such a large population in NYC.

Guyana is bigger than most Caribbean countries, but most of its population is right at the coast. The rest of the country is jungle and rain forest.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by dchan

Thanks for the discussion guys! I think Crawford and proghousehead might be right. The Guyanese population is definitely not 1 million. But the figure seems like it might be somewhat over 140k, partly due to many Guyanese of Indian descent possibly identifying themselves as Southeast Asian on the Census.

Also, there seem to be so many Guyanese neighborhoods, as the Youtube commenter noted in our debate. I do want to visit them some time. Field trip, anyone? (I'm actually serious here)

I became aware of the Guyanese because of two construction management (CM) classes I took. CM3 was taught by a Guyanese man of black/African descent. In that same class was a Guyanese student of white/European descent. They both spoke with that same Guyanese-Caribbean accent.

Then I realized that the previous CM class (CM2) was likely taught by a Guyanese of Indian/Southeast Asian descent. Same sort of accent too.

Guyana and its neighbors are strange countries. They're the only parts of the South American that are not considered Latin America, and have a similar culture and accent of the Caribbean islands.

One of my friends is "Indian" Guyanese. I don't know how he identifies himself on census forms, but I would be a little surprised if he considers himself southeast Asian. Culturally, he seems to have way more in common with black West Indians than south Asians.

[proghousehead]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

One of my friends is "Indian" Guyanese. I don't know how he identifies himself on census forms, but I would be a little surprised if he considers himself southeast Asian. Culturally, he seems to have way more in common with black West Indians than southeast Asians.

What does South East Asia have to do with Guyana or India?

The Guyanese/Trinis I know all speak or at least understand Hindi; watch and listen to Bollywood Movies and Music, and are Hindu or Muslim. I think that is why some may identify as Indian on the census.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

The Guyanese/Trinis I know all speak or at least understand Hindi; watch and listen to Bollywood Movies and Music, and are Hindu or Muslim. I think that is why some may identify as Indian on the census.

Maybe. I've known the guy I spoke about above for over 10 years. Thinking about it more, he may have once referred to himself as black but I'm not completely sure. Most of his friends are white, Hispanic, or black (typical north Jersey melting pot group). I've never witnessed him socialize with any southeast Asians.

I just remembered this, but someone I went to high school with is also either Guyanese or Trini and is some mixture of south Asian and African. I'm 100% sure he doesn't identify as south Asian at all, and while he can more easily pass for typical black American, I've seen some of his relatives who look very south Asian.

[jbermingham123]

^^ I think what confused proghousehead is that you are using the term southeast asian instead of south asian. Indians are south asian... southeast asia is vietnam, thailand, laos, cambodia, etc. Some southeast asian countries have indian diasporas, though; malaysia in particular

[proghousehead]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

^^ I think what confused proghousehead is that you are using the term southeast asian instead of south asian. Indians are south asian... southeast asia is vietnam, thailand, laos, cambodia, etc. Some southeast asian countries have indian diasporas, though; malaysia in particular

Yes sir. All good. That region can be confusing to classify. Add in the Guyanese aspect of indentured Indian laborers being sent to the Caribbean area, the British and black influence, etc, it’s a tricky one to really ID.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

^^ I think what confused proghousehead is that you are using the term southeast asian instead of south asian. Indians are south asian... southeast asia is vietnam, thailand, laos, cambodia, etc. Some southeast asian countries have indian diasporas, though; malaysia in particular

My bad, lol. I don't know why I kept writing that, but yeah, thanks for calling that out.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

Yes sir. All good. That region can be confusing to classify. Add in the Guyanese aspect of indentured Indian laborers being sent to the Caribbean area, the British and black influence, etc, it’s a tricky one to really ID.

Yeah, I understand the difference but for some reason southeast Asian was in my mind and I kept writing it lol. I'll blame it on the hangover I had yesterday.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by dchan

I think that one of the crazier stats is the fact that NYC has 140K plus Guyanese, which is a significant fraction of the actual population of Guyana. But it's also not unheard of for Caribbean/West Indies countries, since they're so small and have such a large population in NYC.

Guyana is bigger than most Caribbean countries, but most of its population is right at the coast. The rest of the country is jungle and rain forest.

Not all that surprising to me - I would guess that NYC probably has at least 250K-500K Jamaicans (I don't know if there is an actual tally, just my guess), and Jamaica has about 2.6 million in the country. In fact, 2-3 million Jamaicans live outside of Jamaica, probably more or as much as live in Jamaica. It may be similar for other Carib countries and territories. It may also be similar to some small European countries, notably Ireland, although most are descendants.

[chris08876]

19,052 residential units (Q2/Q3 2021)











Credit: NYY

[bnk]

Originally Posted by dchan

Thanks for the discussion guys! I think Crawford and proghousehead might be right. The Guyanese population is definitely not 1 million. But the figure seems like it might be somewhat over 140k, partly due to many Guyanese of Indian descent possibly identifying themselves as Southeast Asian on the Census.

Also, there seem to be so many Guyanese neighborhoods, as the Youtube commenter noted in our debate. I do want to visit them some time. Field trip, anyone? (I'm actually serious here)

I became aware of the Guyanese because of two construction management (CM) classes I took. CM3 was taught by a Guyanese man of black/African descent. In that same class was a Guyanese student of white/European descent. They both spoke with that same Guyanese-Caribbean accent.

Then I realized that the previous CM class (CM2) was likely taught by a Guyanese of Indian/Southeast Asian descent. Same sort of accent too.

Guyana and its neighbors are strange countries. They're the only parts of the South American that are not considered Latin America, and have a similar culture and accent of the Caribbean islands.

You do realize that the majority of Guyanese people are of south Indian genes right?

Yes there are carib blacks and others including local peoples in the forest and some EU peps. But Asian Indians have a lock on the government, industry and well are the majority of said country.

Intersting note a very large Guyanese manly chose NYC and its area to move to more than any other place, im thinking like 90% But dont immigration patterns in the past to this too. But for example instead of only one city

The long immigration of Irish went to several cities at different times. I think just due to the boat being closest to Boston and NYC it made sense for the Irish esp pre civil war to settle in those said cities even though a large percentage of people moving for their lives and preventing starvation were more local rural people. The second wave came and populated not only the said cities but cities on the rise back in the day like Chicago, and a few other midwest cities I might not know about.


Any one on the top of their head know were a lot of post civil war Irish went to becides Chicago, thanks in advance for any answer.


I wonder what the Guyanese will do because indians of all stripes are going to most major city metros now, some more than other

But those strong in STEM and medicine will continue to attract educated indians. Chicagoland included in this mix


We have had a steady but not over the top immigration from india and pakis for years now. Not sure if the rate is increasing or just steady. But they have a strong presence esp in medicine. I should know, ive worked at several hospitals and a lot of my peers are indian.

[NYguy]

Haven’t checked this in a while, but folks, keep the discussion here centered on New York City.




https://nypost.com/2021/11/13/nycs-p...-housing-fast/

NYC’s population actually grew during COVID — and it needs housing fast


By Eric Kober
November 13, 2021

Not long ago, New York was thought to be a city in decline, and there was much hand-wringing about it.

The Census Bureau’s annual population estimates had New York City’s population peaking in 2016 at 8.47 million. By 2020, the bureau said, the city’s population had declined steadily, by about 220,000 people.

To informed observers, the Census Bureau’s population estimates seemed inconsistent with other data that came from government sources. New York City continued to gain jobs steadily — over 900,000 payroll jobs from 2010 to 2019 — before dropping in the pandemic-induced recession of 2020. Most city workers live in the city, and the city continued to add housing — albeit not enough. Rents and sales prices remained high, implying lots of housing demand. Surely the Census Bureau had the direction of population change wrong.

In fact, the bureau did get it wrong. Results from the 2020 Census confirmed that New York City’s population grew significantly in the decade up to 2020, by 629,000. The city’s population growth happened via natural increase, the excess of births over deaths. About the same number of people migrated to the city, either domestically or internationally, as left during the decade.

Looking at the long-term trend, 2010-20 was the fourth consecutive decade of upward momentum in New York City’s population. At 8.8 million, it stands on the cusp of nine million, a threshold likely to be passed in 2030.

New Yorkers should celebrate this growth. The city has what every American city wants — a powerhouse economy based on finance and advanced business services that attracts ambitious strivers, both from other parts of the United States and from foreign countries. Added to that is the size and scale of the nation’s largest labor market, and all the amenities a great city can offer. Of course, the city grows its population each decade.

But with nine million looming, and ten million a distinct possibility, New York City faces challenges its elected officials have, so far, not risen to face. New York City does not produce the housing it needs to support its employment growth. Even in an economic boom period, the city issued building permits for slightly fewer new housing units in the 2011-20 decade (219,700) than it did in the 2001-10 decade (222,900) while its population grew much faster. Restrictive zoning is in large part the culprit — a
problem the city inflicted on itself decades ago, and has yet to resolve.

….. The failures at the state and local level jeopardize New York City’s continued economic growth in the 2020s. The one saving grace is that the city has evolved a de facto sixth borough across the Hudson that its politicians do not control. Northern New Jersey municipalities did the city a considerable favor by accepting a disproportionate share of the region’s population and housing growth from 2010 to 2020, led by Jersey City, which grew its population by 44,900.

Unfortunately, before the pandemic, and likely with recovery, the growth in New Jersey commuters overwhelmed the antiquated and inadequate trans-Hudson transportation network. At best, relief is far off.

[mrnyc]

i really don't see how the city could build much more or faster at once. i work all over the city and there is housing and development literally everywhere you turn these days. the place is really on an impressive and very visible roll.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i really don't see how the city could build much more or faster at once. i work all over the city and there is housing and development literally everywhere you turn these days. the place is really on an impressive and very visible roll.

Yeah, I agree. They are building like crazy in NYC.

But I don't know if I buy that NYC has grown consistently since the start of the pandemic. It's probably growing again now, but I really doubt that the city has completely recovered the pandemic initiated population losses yet.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i really don't see how the city could build much more or faster at once. i work all over the city and there is housing and development literally everywhere you turn these days. the place is really on an impressive and very visible roll.

Yes, there is a lot of construction. But it’s still not enough. The issue is the large chunks of the city have been undergoing downzonings, even while acfew were upzoned. New York City can support a much larger population, but that would require many rezonings, and countless NIMBY battles and lawsuits against higher density. (The Gowanus rezoning barely got through). Everybody wants housing built, but nobody wants it in their neighborhood. Just like everyone wants the homeless off the streets, just don’t put a shelter on their block. And the transit issues will have to be addressed.

All of this can be done, if there was a will to do it. The city is one of the greatest places on earth, but it didn’t get that way naturally. Everything had to be built, and it got built because people had the will and the way. Today, people are more content to complain.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Yes, there is a lot of construction. But it’s still not enough. The issue is the large chunks of the city have been undergoing downzonings, even while acfew were upzoned. New York City can support a much larger population, but that would require many rezonings, and countless NIMBY battles and lawsuits against higher density. (The Gowanus rezoning barely got through). Everybody wants housing built, but nobody wants it in their neighborhood. Just like everyone wants the homeless off the streets, just don’t put a shelter on their block. And the transit issues will have to be addressed.

All of this can be done, if there was a will to do it. The city is one of the greatest places on earth, but it didn’t get that way naturally. Everything had to be built, and it got built because people had the will and the way. Today, people are more content to complain.

At 8.8 million now...would you really want that? I think anything more than 10 million and taking into account all the geographic constraints, New York would start to lose quality of living after a while.

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by JManc

At 8.8 million now...would you really want that? I think anything more than 10 million and taking into account all the geographic constraints, New York would start to lose quality of living after a while.

It's harder and harder to justify more people as we approach 9 Million people just in the City alone! There really needs to be a hard look, and yes- the will, at how we're going to manage. There's no doubt that we lost people from COVID, last year, but we definitely seem to have regain new people (from where? I can't say) which looks to be a wash. It certainly "feels" like 8.8 Million.....the question is "how long before we get to 9 Million?"

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by fleonzo

but we definitely seem to have regain new people (from where? I can't say)

and some regaining of old people too.

anecdote:

my cousin and her husband left their small brooklyn apartment like 2 months into covid and moved out to portland for some reason.

they just returned to brooklyn back in septemeber. and they decided to buy a condo this time, so i think they're planning on staying for some time.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

At 8.8 million now...would you really want that? I think anything more than 10 million and taking into account all the geographic constraints, New York would start to lose quality of living after a while.

The city needs to continue moving in the multi-nodal direction, but it shouldn't have trouble supporting more population. But Brooklyn and Queens can easily support hundreds of thousands more residents than live there now.