HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 9:17 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
$1 trillion recently left China in an 18-month time period around 2015-16. Most of this money comes from wealthy Chinese individuals who secretly store away their legally earned money overseas.
Why is legal money leaving China being mentioned in a money laundering article? Feels pretty deceptive.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 9:56 PM
casper casper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 9,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite View Post
Can anyone tell me what is the problem of foreigners investing in Canadian companies and real estate is? I understand why foreign governments are against it but it seems it a big benefit to Canada as a whole as it's free money entering our economy.
It all depends......

China has laws about how much money someone can legally take out of the country in any give year. There is a percentage of the "dirty money" that is dirty because of these silly laws. Canada has no laws that limit the free flow of money out of China. This can also happen through related companies. Lets say the family business is making light bulbs. You sell these at a loss to a company you own in Canada that then sells it a massive profit. Change has issues with this Canada does not.

There is also money that comes from illegal activities, such as drugs. Last thing anyone want is for these types of criminals having an easy way to clean here money.

As for the impact on people buying homes. Well it is a condo you just add a few extra floors and it is a positive.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 11, 2019, 11:21 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,730
CBC British Columbia is reporting that the BC gov is thinking of bringing in new extremely tough legislation to stop the money laundering which is killing the province's quality of life and reputation........the BBC just did a report on Vancouver and named it "the city who's real estate is run by gangs".

The supposed proposal would allow the government to seize properties before they are proven to have any connection to criminal activity. Even for me, that's a step too far but exemplifies how much the NDP really are going to go after money laundering and exemplifies how entreched it is in the BC economy when such draconian measures are needed to reign in the criminality. I doubt very much it would survive a Charter challenge and the BC Civil Liberties Society is already sounding the alarm.

I think a far more acceptable idea would be to put a lien against the properties until they have had their day in court but there is reasonable proof that the houses were purchased thru criminal means. It would serve the same purpose but would still maintain the legal requirement of being innocent until provenm guilty.

Our AG Ebby is going to go down in BC history as a real hero for putting his neck out on the line and making fighting money laundering and drug trafficing his top priority. He was a VERY vocal critic of Christy who near-openly encouraged the dirty money and treated the corresponding opiod crisis it was fueling with supreme indifference. He is also willing to do this and put his electoral success on the line to right this incredible injustice as he is the MLA from Vancouver's toniest neighbourhood, Point Grey which is money laundering central.

We need more politicians like Ebby with his integrity and he is a refreshing reminder that not all politicians are in the game strictly for their own well being but rather some still have a genuine desire to leave the country in a better place than they found it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 12, 2019, 7:58 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Got to love how the NDP blames the Liberals for maintaining a system they setup.

Quote:
The Socreds liked private companies to operate the casinos as long as they shared a healthy percentage of the profits with the provincial government.

This model remained in place throughout the 10 years of NDP rule from 1991 to 2001 and continued through 16 years of B.C. Liberal rule. There are now 37,000 people employed in the gaming industry in B.C.

In the early 1990s, the existence of casinos troubled some commercial crime investigators, who worried about them becoming de facto laundromats for gangsters. These concerns were covered extensively by a reporter of that era, Don Ramsay.

Around the same time, Vancouver residents were also extremely worried about money laundering in casinos.

That was one reason why Las Vegas-based casino mogul Steve Wynne and Concert Properties weren't able to win approval from the City of Vancouver for a gambling and hotel complex called Seaport Centre on the Vancouver waterfront.

A report by a young city planner named Larry Beasley helped kibosh this idea.

Concert Properties was created with the help of union pension funds.

In the early 2000s, there was great alarm again in Vancouver over the introduction of slot machines. In a narrow vote in 2004, Vancouver city council first allowed them at the Plaza of Nations at the casino owned by Jackson.

Council also approved slot machines at Hastings Racecourse, which was owned by Great Canadian Gaming Corp. This vote drove a wedge within the Coalition of Progressive Electors, which had a large majority on council.

One of the key lobbyists at that time was John Horgan, who was a partner in a company called IdeaWorks. (Horgan's current chief of staff, Geoff Meggs, was then a top assistant to the mayor, Larry Campbell.)

Horgan previously worked for the B.C. Ministry of Management Services, which oversaw the expansion of gambling across the province under the last NDP government. Meggs was communications director for that NDP government as it was expanding gambling.

In 2004, Horgan said that he and his partners were hired by casino owners Jackson and Len Libin of Gateway, and worked closely with charities, unions, and community groups. A former NDP cabinet minister, Ian Waddell, and SFU criminologist Neil Boyd were also retained to help make the case.

"Our objective here was to bring those diverse groups together to see the benefit of allowing slot machines in Vancouver...city projects through increased revenue, a future for charitable organizations through a new facility, and jobs for trade unionists," Horgan told the Straight in 2004. "Once the fabric all came together, the cloth looked pretty impressive for a majority of council, and that's why we were successful."

So it's clear that Horgan, who is now premier, doesn't have any philosophical objections to casino gambling.
https://www.straight.com/news/123967...medium=ios_app
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 7:52 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
http://udi.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/...Laundering.pdf

Quote:
The recently released anti-money laundering reports by the Expert Panel and Peter German, relied on a first-of-its-kind in Canada economic model to conclude that the estimated impact on real estate transactions in 2018 was as low as $800 million to as high as $5.3 billion. The Panel also noted that the most significant inflows of funds come from the United States.
Kind of hilarious since a lot of the racist shills were saying China China China China China when anyone with any common sense would realize the nation with the long border to our south would be the obvious source for money entering our nation. Now the shills are criticizing Peter German where before they were fully supporting him.

Last edited by misher; May 23, 2019 at 8:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 4:33 AM
Nite's Avatar
Nite Nite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by misher View Post
http://udi.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/...Laundering.pdf



Kind of hilarious since a lot of the racist shills were saying China China China China China when anyone with any common sense would realize the nation with the long border to our south would be the obvious source for money entering our nation. Now the shills are criticizing Peter German where before they were fully supporting him.
Even before this report it was known that Americans are by far the largest foreign property owners in Canada and no other country is close to them, but yet all I ever see is China/Chinese getting blamed for buying property in Canada.

I guess because most Americans are white that public don't mention them when talking about foreigners buying property in Canada
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:09 AM
Doady's Avatar
Doady Doady is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,735
Coloured people gaining power and wealth in a far away country, and White Canada is already starting to feel threatened. I think it's just funny. Coloured people will always be the scapegoat for everything and held down by any means possible. We will always be second class citizens here, and this thread is proof of that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:23 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,730
Spare us the race baiting crap. The illegal money flowing into BC is overwhelmingly Chinese. PS...............Chinese is not a race as much as they like to think they are.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:48 AM
Nite's Avatar
Nite Nite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Spare us the race baiting crap. The illegal money flowing into BC is overwhelmingly Chinese. PS...............Chinese is not a race as much as they like to think they are.
He is right though, this whole money laundering hysteria is driven by racism.
How come i haven't heard anyone talk about going after Americans and the British since they are the largest foreign buyers in BC and Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 6:51 AM
Doady's Avatar
Doady Doady is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,735
People are still clinging on to their Chinese scapegoat, even in the face of evidence that the main culprit is American. If that's not racism then I don't know what is. PS...............I never said anything about the Chinese being a single race or not.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 12:50 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite View Post
He is right though, this whole money laundering hysteria is driven by racism.
How come i haven't heard anyone talk about going after Americans and the British since they are the largest foreign buyers in BC and Canada.
BC had colored exclusion neighborhoods less than 100 years ago. Pretty much the province that was the slowest to change racist legislation. Their quite happy to take all the tax dollars but when colored people get uppity and buy homes from good white folk then it’s an outrage.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 12:52 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite View Post
He is right though, this whole money laundering hysteria is driven by racism.
How come i haven't heard anyone talk about going after Americans and the British since they are the largest foreign buyers in BC and Canada.
BC had colored exclusion neighborhoods less than 100 years ago. Many homes you’ll still see restrictions against colored ownership in the deed. Pretty much the province that was the slowest to change racist legislation. Their quite happy to take all the tax dollars but when colored people get uppity and buy homes from good white folk then it’s an outrage.

Of course Vancouver only has about 20% Chinese homeowners by ethnicity but don’t let that stop them from saying that all homes are owned by Chinese.

Last edited by misher; May 24, 2019 at 1:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 2:20 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Coloured people gaining power and wealth in a far away country, and White Canada is already starting to feel threatened. I think it's just funny. Coloured people will always be the scapegoat for everything and held down by any means possible. We will always be second class citizens here, and this thread is proof of that.
Pity party, table for one.

Canada top 3 sources of immigration:
Philippines 188,805 15.6%
India 147,190 12.1%
China 129,020 10.6%

And yet we don't see stories about money laundering from the Philippines or India, do we? I suppose that might be the United Front tactic, conflating money laundering an overarching immigration issue, but it is not.

Here's your homework, read this article:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle38004840/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 2:27 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite View Post
Even before this report it was known that Americans are by far the largest foreign property owners in Canada and no other country is close to them, but yet all I ever see is China/Chinese getting blamed for buying property in Canada.

I guess because most Americans are white that public don't mention them when talking about foreigners buying property in Canada
There's a huge difference between someone buying a vacation condo in Whistler, and a "housewife" buying 17 condos in one complex.

You are also showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the model used by the German Report in money laundering:

The Utrecht gravity model of money laundering has been developed and steadily improved since 2005, based on a gravity model originally described by Walker.28 One of the Panel members, Brigitte Unger, has made a significant contribution to the model’s ongoing development. Together
with colleagues at the University of Utrecht, she used the model to estimate money laundering in Canada and BC.

In essence, application of a gravity model to money laundering involves estimating how much of the proceeds of crime in a given country are laundered within that country and how much flows to each other country in the model. Those flows depend on an attractiveness index based on characteristics that measure how attractive a given country is to money launderers, including GDP per capita, and a distance index that measures how close each pair of countries is geographically and characteristics that measure distance from a cultural perspective.. *bold mine)


So in essence a country that is close geographically and culturally will be overweight in the modelling. Whereas the opposite is true. Reliable data is also important, as the model makes extrapolations based on it.

..In addition, as with any modelling exercise, the accuracy of the model depends on both the model’s mathematical specification and the quality and coverage of the underlying data. Both factors could contribute to a divergence between the estimates reported here and the actual amounts of laundered monies in BC.

A model will understate the extent of money laundering if the data does not completely cover all sources of funds that are then laundered. The gravity model used to estimate money laundering in BC bases the aggregate amount of monies to be laundered on crime statistics reported to the United Nations. It uses assumptions about the proportion of crime proceeds used directly by criminal enterprises and the proportion that is laundered. The laundered fund flows are then allocated between the amount that stays in the host country and the amount that flows to other jurisdictions...


https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/Combatt...ing_Report.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 4:46 PM
CivicBlues CivicBlues is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Spare us the race baiting crap. The illegal money flowing into BC is overwhelmingly Chinese. PS...............Chinese is not a race as much as they like to think they are.
LOL the whole Chinese are not a race shtick is so tired. As if you of all people can tell the difference between a Chinese person and another East Asian walking down the street. How come I can't stop picturing you as one of those ranting homeless men downtown that harass Korean and Japanese international students by telling them CH**KS GO HOME!.

p.s. Jew's aren't a race either, so I guess it was fine to blame them for all of society's ills and massacre them . But it's OK, it wasn't racist per se. You and whatnext are hilarious with your circuitous logic. If the German report said otherwise and fit your preconceptions that all financial crime is committed by Chinese I have no doubt you would not give a fuck about the methodology used.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:02 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,730
Yes, the Chinese are so oppressed in Vancouver.

This whole cry racism crap is the reason Vancouver is in the state its in with being a laundromat, sky highprices, and a fentenal crisis. Everytime the dirty money was brought up the politicians and developers who were getting their palm's greased cried racism to shut the conversation down.

This is not a race issue it's a legal and moral one.............these crooks from China are nothing but a bunch of low life criminals and now they are upset because BC finally has a government that that acknowledges it. Seize their assets and throw them in jail and if not citizens throw them out of the country and ban them from entering the country ever again.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:08 PM
Doug's Avatar
Doug Doug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
CBC British Columbia is reporting that the BC gov is thinking of bringing in new extremely tough legislation to stop the money laundering which is killing the province's quality of life and reputation........the BBC just did a report on Vancouver and named it "the city who's real estate is run by gangs".

The supposed proposal would allow the government to seize properties before they are proven to have any connection to criminal activity. Even for me, that's a step too far but exemplifies how much the NDP really are going to go after money laundering and exemplifies how entreched it is in the BC economy when such draconian measures are needed to reign in the criminality. I doubt very much it would survive a Charter challenge and the BC Civil Liberties Society is already sounding the alarm.

I think a far more acceptable idea would be to put a lien against the properties until they have had their day in court but there is reasonable proof that the houses were purchased thru criminal means. It would serve the same purpose but would still maintain the legal requirement of being innocent until provenm guilty.

Our AG Ebby is going to go down in BC history as a real hero for putting his neck out on the line and making fighting money laundering and drug trafficing his top priority. He was a VERY vocal critic of Christy who near-openly encouraged the dirty money and treated the corresponding opiod crisis it was fueling with supreme indifference. He is also willing to do this and put his electoral success on the line to right this incredible injustice as he is the MLA from Vancouver's toniest neighbourhood, Point Grey which is money laundering central.

We need more politicians like Ebby with his integrity and he is a refreshing reminder that not all politicians are in the game strictly for their own well being but rather some still have a genuine desire to leave the country in a better place than they found it.
The fix is easy:
1) Require all purchasers to document the source of down payments. For foreign buyers, that would involve a tax clearance document from their home government. A bank or agent that fails to do so, would be criminally liable. Might need to implement some sort of government authentication to guard against forgery. Maybe the government will not transfer title until it authenticates the documentation

2) Ban agents and brokers from buying property on a client's behalf. The registered owner should always be the real owner

3) Require companies buying properties to disclose their ownership structures
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:13 PM
CivicBlues CivicBlues is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Yes, the Chinese are so oppressed in Vancouver.

This whole cry racism crap is the reason Vancouver is in the state its in with being a laundromat, sky highprices, and a fentenal crisis. Everytime the dirty money was brought up the politicians and developers who were getting their palm's greased cried racism to shut the conversation down.

This is not a race issue it's a legal and moral one.............these crooks from China are nothing but a bunch of low life criminals and now they are upset because BC finally has a government that that acknowledges it. Seize their assets and throw them in jail and if not citizens throw them out of the country and ban them from entering the country ever again.
So then why not just call them criminals? Why bring race into it at all? It's like half your posts are Chinese crooks this. Chinese launderers that. When it's clear from this report and others that it's not just a "Chinese" problem.

Just call them crooks, why the racial qualifier? I don't see a purpose to it other than to inflame racial tensions in this city and to cause marginal people to lash out verbally and physically at innocent East Asian looking citizens. BTW you don't have to be "oppressed" in any sense to experience racism so fuck off with that BS too thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:18 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Yes, the Chinese are so oppressed in Vancouver.

This whole cry racism crap is the reason Vancouver is in the state its in with being a laundromat, sky highprices, and a fentenal crisis. Everytime the dirty money was brought up the politicians and developers who were getting their palm's greased cried racism to shut the conversation down.

This is not a race issue it's a legal and moral one.............these crooks from China are nothing but a bunch of low life criminals and now they are upset because BC finally has a government that that acknowledges it. Seize their assets and throw them in jail and if not citizens throw them out of the country and ban them from entering the country ever again.
Yes its legal and moral to arrest, rob, and deport all Chinese who do not have citizenship here. Its sickening to see how bad racism is in Vancouver and whats worse is many stand by and watch it happen. Less than 100 years ago Asians were being insulted/harassed for being too poor coming here with just the clothes on their backs to work below average wage jobs and now there coming with too much money? Basically Neo-Nazism is on the rise and we're letting it happen because its not one of the commonly oppressed races/minorities.

ssiguy I have a nice quotes for you that parallel your thoughts, I'm sure you would get along with the Nazis:

Quote:
In Amsterdam as in Warsaw, in Berlin as in Budapest, Jewish officials could be trusted to compile the lists of persons and of their property, to secure money from the deportees to defray the expenses of their deportation and extermination, to keep track of vacated apartments, to supply police forces to help seize Jews and get them on trains, until, as a last gesture, they handed over the assets of the Jewish community in good order for final confiscation...[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenrat

Quote:
There's a reason Trump's opponents are so worried. This strategy — one designed to single out a particular group of people, suggesting that there's something particularly sinister about how they behave — was employed to great effect by Adolf Hitler and his allies. In the 1930s, the Nazis used a similar tactic to stir up anger and hatred toward Jews. Professor Richard Weikart of California State University explained that Nazi leaders used different kinds of communication tools to sell the message that “Jews are criminal by disposition,” as a 1943 Nazi directive to the German press put it. “The Jews are not a nation like other nations but bearers of hereditary criminality,” the order said. Germany, in other words, was out of control, and only Nazi anti-Semitic policies could “restore order.”

To spread these ideas, there were books (like the pamphlet pictured above) and films that portrayed Jews as subhuman. “The Eternal Jew,” released in 1940, depicted Jews as wandering cultural parasites, consumed by sex and money. Newspapers such as Der Stürmer printed anti-Semitic cartoons regularly. “By the late 1930s, the increasingly fanatical tone of Nazi propaganda reflected the growing radicalization of the regime's anti-Semitic policies,” the BBC explained. “The Jewish stereotypes shown in such propaganda served to reinforce anxieties about modern developments in political and economic life, without bothering to question the reality of the Jewish role in German society.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.736805dea901

Of course Chinese are different, therefore they must be criminals:

Quote:
for many germans the linking of Jews with criminality might have seemed less speculative than “scientific racism” as a basis for Nazi policies. Although some scholars detect the roots of racial anti-Semitism in pre-Christian antiquity,¹ for the sake of illuminating the Holocaust, it suffices to begin with the broad Christian background. In European Christendom a rationale for discriminating against the Jews, accompanying the apparent incompatibility of the Jewish and Christian belief systems, was that Jews were socialized toward criminality and overrepresented in the realm of criminals. This conviction long predated the rise of racism, although sometimes the persecution of Jews
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pnfsn


Honestly the parallels between whats happening in Vancouver and what happened in Germany are very strong. Blame your problems on a minority. Convince the people that that minority is inherently "bad," criminals that must be removed/exterminated. Convince them that the only thing stopping the majority from being successful/wealthy is the illegal acts of the minority who steal from the majority. Focus on particularly bad single examples and use those to push people into believing that the minority as a whole is awful. Focus on how different the minority is, and how much better it would be if they were gone. Etc. All you need to do is play on stereotypes and manipulate facts/figures to cater to the racists. Hell on reddit I saw someone screwing that the pipeline is a Chinese conspiracy.

Last edited by misher; May 24, 2019 at 5:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 5:30 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,730
Who the hell said anything about throwing all Chinese out of the country because I sure as hell didn't? The reality is that China is the primary source of money laundering and fentenal production. As someone noted buying a apt in Whistler is vastly different than some Chinese with no income buying a whole floor of condos.

These people are criminals and should be treated as such and I agree their place of origin or race should make absolutely no difference. The reason why it has become a "race" issue is because the criminals and the politicians they bribed went out of their way to make it one to shut down investigations or even intelligent discourse.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:33 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.