Detroit & Michigan: Go-Town Transportation Lowdown

[LMich]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

^^^It's a possibility.

It's pretty much what's going to get done barring some upgrade in the mode of transit along Woodward.

That said, I do need to make clear, again, that at least two proposed alignments take the BRT route off of Woodward along the segment on which the streetcar would operate. Even if the the BRT stays on Woodward, it's center running, while the streetcar is curb-running during much of the route.

BTW, the Freep had a story about how support for funding the RTA is pretty solidly popular, but opinion is split when you ask voters if they are in favor of the funding mechanism (increase in vehicle registration fees). Still sounds like this is a winner if even it went to the ballot, this year, with a tiny bit of an education plan. However, the governor's appointee on the board (non-voting, but also chairman of the board by design) is trying to steer a ballot question away from this year and wait until 2016, which seems insane, to me, given how long we've waited, how much this has been studied, and how many years behind we already are on existing transit proposals. I hope more influential members on the board are able to stop this delay.

Oh, almost forgot, I've been emailing with MDOT, and apparently, after years of delay, the West Detroit Connection Track project - which will cut minutes of the existing Wolverine Amtrak service, and eventually facilitate high-speed service and the SEMCOG commuter rail - will finally begin construction in a few month:


West Detroit Connection Track by NewCityOne, on Flickr

MDOT is rebuilding the bridges at the junction, and the rail companies are doule-tracking and paying for the signaling and such. Currently, passenger trains have to pass West Detroit and make the transfer at Bay City Junction, which is a very sharp curve which requires them to slow well-the-hell down. lol

Oh, and MDOT is also looking this year into finally resurrecting the New Center multi-modal station to replace the existing Amtrak station across the tracks.

[animatedmartian]

Geez, how does anything get built in the US? Canada's putting billions of dollars into this and want to get it done on time but the US government can't even fork out $300 million. My faith in this country... is severely wounded.

Canada ready to buy Detroit land for bridge, even without U.S. commitment
By John Gallagher. Detroit Free Press Business Writer. February 2, 2014

Canada plans to begin buying land in Detroit’s Delray district for the New International Trade Crossing even without assurances the U.S. will pay more than $200 million for a needed customs plaza, Canadian officials said last week.

The willingness to move ahead despite U.S. foot-dragging does more than keep the project on track for a 2020 opening. It also brings closure to about 1,000 residents in Detroit’s Delray neighborhood who have waited for years to learn if they’ll be displaced.

....

Roy Norton, Canada’s outgoing consul general in Detroit, told the Free Press the project is too important not to move ahead despite the doubts about U.S. participation. Canada is paying nearly all of the more than $2-billion cost on both sides of the river and recouping the U.S. share from future tolls.

“We’re about to proceed with land purchases some time in the next few months, and we’re going to do that whether there’s been an indication from the U.S. government on a commitment to the customs plaza or not,” Norton said. “That involves a little bit of risk on our part, obviously, but we’re so confident that this ultimately will be built that it’s prudent to do that.”

Gov. Rick Snyder, an ardent supporter of the project, provoked controversy in January when he told the Free Press editorial board that U.S. officials were stalling on committing to pay for the plaza. The most recent cost estimate for the plaza work, which includes connectors to I-75, was $325 million in 2010.

...

Norton said that any suggestion that Canada pick up the cost of the U.S. plaza was farfetched.

“For people to muse about Canada paying for it really is preposterous,” he said. “We’re paying for fifteen-sixteenths of this project. It’s silly.”

[JonathanGRR]

This isn't really surprising at all. I think part of the lack of will-power on a national level probably comes from the negative image of Detroit/Southeast Michigan; people don't understand why a new bridge is needed for an 'area that is in ruins.' If they actually understood the situation, maybe it would be different...

Although, one *creative* way to fix the problem of the US not paying for a customs plaza would be to *simply* create a customs union with free movement of peoples and goods...Yeah, I know, that's not going to happen either...

[animatedmartian]

I thought it was more along the lines of just the US government being incompetent at funding infrastructure projects. I'm pretty sure this isn't the only project that needs federal funding that the US gov is skimping out on and I wouldn't be surprised if they've been delayed for years if not completely cancelled. And really you only have to look at history to find plenty of times when the US gov completely failed on funding infrastructure (especially in Detroit; ahem People Mover).

But it's pretty bad in this case when you have an entirely different country funding 99% of the project and all the US has to do is the customs plaza. Like how lazy and incompetent can our government get? We're being handed a free project and only have to put in a little but very important piece. *sigh*

[Innsertnamehere]

oh trust me Canada is plenty incompetent when it comes to infrastructure. the one thing we seem to have down right is building roads as needed, where they are needed.

[animatedmartian]

For now, the grass still looks greener on the other side. I'm still at least hoping this gets finished by 2020.

[LMich]

A bit of worrisome news, Transit Riders United (TRU) - Detroit's premier transit advocacy group - is reporting that despite a well-attended meeting of the RTA's Executive & Policy Committee, the committee recommended to the full committee to put a funding questions on the ballot in November 2016 instead of November of this year. This seems like self-sabotage, to me. Outside of funding for any transit aquisition or development, this also means that the RTA, itself, will have to continually beg for money just to operate until at least 2017.

The full board meets on the 19th, while I doubt they can be convinced otherwise, maybe an email campaign is in order to see if we can't get four of five votes on the board to either derail this vote until another meeting, or even get an amendment to place the vote on this November ballot. I'd concentrate on trying to get the Detroit, Wayne County and Washtenaw County members on board. That's five of the 8-person voting board, the president is a non-voting member, though, he may (probably) is able to block amendments. I don't know all the ends-and-outs of this board, yet.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it seems they've taken their email addresses off the page.

[ardecila]

Don't you just love appointed officials?

"Accountability? Never heard of it!"

[LMich]

I sent my own email yesterday morning to the guy in charge of media inquiries, and got back a very quick (but short) response about how he'd pass the message onto the president. Their email addresses should be readily present, anyway, and I'm sure they are public record. I've emailed TRU to see if they can post their emails on their website if the RTA won't. I wrote a quick response - maybe a little rude, lol - that I sent the message under the working assumption that it was the president, himself, steering the board toward putting off the vote for another nearly three years. He wrote another little curt response back about how the president is professional. lol

Their main excuse seems to be that this would distract from their CEO search, which to me is exactly why they should put the funding on the ballot for this year. As it stands, they are trying to attract the "best and brightest" CEO to an authority that currently has no dedicated funding for simple operation of the board. How the hell does that make sense? How are they going to sell that the candidates for the job?

The RTA can pilfer operating funds from existing federal funds for SMART, DDOT, and AATA and/or beg for an operating budget from the legislature, which is no sure thing. In fact, it was the intransigence of the legislature in providing funding for the board which caused the former CEO to quit the board. He couldn't even get funding for a full staff. This simply doesn't make sense to me. This is the kind of stuff that is fertile breeding ground for conspiracy theories. lol

Dear lord, we need new political leadership in November that can save this board from itself. The current president - a position hand-picked by the governor - has absolutely no will for this thing to work. We can't wait three additional years for a region already so far behind.

[animatedmartian]

The first in a line of meetings about 375 started yesterday.

What to do with I-375: Officials gather ideas on Detroit's 1-mile highway
Khalil AlHajal. February 14, 2014.



DETROIT, MI -- The 1-mile stretch of highway that connects I-75 to the eastern portion of Downtown Detroit needs work to the tune of $80 million, and officials are looking for ideas on what exactly to do with I-375.

Dozens of notes from residents posted on various maps and diagrams during an outreach gathering Thursday night suggested a range of alternatives from filling in the highway and creating new green space to fixing it as-is.

The Detroit Downtown Development Authority, Michigan Department of Transportation and Detroit RiverFront Conservancy plan to hold more meetings over the spring and summer to develop five preliminary I-375 alternatives to be analyzed based on traffic, public space and economic impact, and eventually narrowed down to one preferred plan.

The only thing that's certain, said MDOT spokesman Rob Morosi, is that something needs to be done with I-375.

"What needs to be done is an upgrade to the corridor in terms of safety," he said. "We're really open to all ideas."

If it's to remain a highway, bridges need to be rebuilt, pavement needs to be reconstructed and utilities need improvement, Morosi said

....

[subterranean]

Sometimes in cities you see old tracks coming through the asphalt and I think I've seen this in Detroit. Does anyone know where the old streetcar lines ran?

Any chance old lines are salvageable or is this just crazy thinking? I'm not an engineer and don't know anything about old rail gauges, wear and tear over time, possibility/impossibility of recovering something buried under layers of pavement.

[subterranean]

Found this map with a little searching. Amazing how extensive it was.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Sometimes in cities you see old tracks coming through the asphalt and I think I've seen this in Detroit. Does anyone know where the old streetcar lines ran?

Any chance old lines are salvageable or is this just crazy thinking? I'm not an engineer and don't know anything about old rail gauges, wear and tear over time, possibility/impossibility of recovering something buried under layers of pavement.

There some turning track at Junction and Vernors in Southwest Detroit.

There also used to be some turning tracks that were exposed at Livernois and Fenkell in prior decades. However, Livernois has since been repaved and had a median installed and I'm not sure if the tracks were dug up or simply paved over.

Here's also some maps of the streetcar lines at their most extensive coverage in 1935. However, I think it might be of both the bus system and the streetcar system with nothing differentiating the routes, nontheless you can see how certain areas were influence by transit.

Also, if you're pretty curious for some video history.

Getting About: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.

And finally, here's the full extent of the interurban system that connected to various suburbs and nearby cities.

As far as digging up the rails (if some are still there) and reusing them, I have no clue. But I imagine there would be a lot of gaps to be filled if there was an attempt to integrate them for modern use.

[JonathanGRR]

^
That interurban map doesn't show a later-built extension from Romeo to Almont and Imlay City. Also in the metro area, there was a line from Toledo to Adrian, Flint to Saginaw and Bay City, and Windsor to Leamington.

In other news:

Canadian government: 2nd Moroun bridge won't harm environment
Bill Shea | February 14, 2014

A controversial $400 million plan to replace the Ambassador Bridge with a new, larger span over the Detroit River has received another governmental clearance — but many more remain.

Transport Canada and the Windsor Port Authority jointly said Thursday they have issued a decision under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act that a replacement bridge and larger Canadian border traffic plaza are unlikely to cause a significant adverse environmental effect.

Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel "Matty" Moroun has for years been trying to gain approval to build a six-lane, cable-stayed span adjacent (west) to the original four-lane span that opened in 1929.

Moroun has constructed some of the traffic ramps and plaza in Detroit necessary for a new span, but has been unable to proceed further because of a lack of approvals and legal wrangling.


Manuel Moroun
Analyzed in the Canadian environmental report were the potential effects on air and water quality, wildlife, noise, vibrations, human health, physical and cultural heritage, and several other factors.

"The management and owners of the Ambassador Bridge are very pleased that we have been able to work collectively with Canada to finalize the environmental assessment. This is another step in the process which will lead to the construction of a new twin span of the Ambassador Bridge," the bridge company said in a statement.

Moroun still must get environmental approval for the new span from the U.S. Coast Guard, and a presidential permit from the U.S. State Department.

Moroun has argued he doesn't need the presidential permit because the Ambassador Bridge already exists.

In Canada, the project still requires approval under the International Bridges and Tunnels Act and the Port Authorities Operations Regulations, Transport Canada said.

It wasn't immediately clear what the status is of those other required approvals.

The environmental decision issued this week is based on a submission made by the Canadian Transit Co. — the Ambassador Bridge's business unit in Ontario — in 2006.

The delay in granting it came because the Canadian Transit Co. it didn't submit all the required information, Transport Canada said.

The agency reiterated Friday, in an email to Crain's, that the approval granted this week is for a single new span and not an effort to twin the Ambassador Bridge.

"It is important to note that the EA was based on a 'replacement' span and that, once completed, the existing Ambassador Bridge would be taken out of service," Transport Canada spokesman Mark Butler said.

Moroun has said the original span would be used only for overflow border traffic during major events.
...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...rm-environment

I'm generally opposed to this plan. For one thing, I think the historic integrity and visual impact of the Ambassador Bridge would be obscured by the new span (depending on how close the span is built). I also think that the idea of the current Ambassador Bridge sitting idle except for major events would lead to poor maintenance and eventual demolition of the bridge. I'd warm up to the plan a little bit more if the Ambassador Bridge could possibly be renovated to carry LRT or something of the like, but the service probably wouldn't be very popular with current border crossing protocols.

[LMich]

Moroun's second bridge is not going to happen. This is simply him running through the process, and no nation is going to be so unprofessional as to contrive an environmental assessment to say that the bridge would hurt the environment if it's not going to.

And, no, you can not reuse street rail that old. Look at the roads and how bad they are. The elements go down into the road. The streetrail that was not dug up is in unusable shape.

BTW, looks like the media's finally picking up on the disarray at the RTA:

John T. Geilick | The Detroit News

Detroit area transit project stuck in neutral

by Leonard N. Fleming | The Detroit News

February 17, 2014

It was supposed to be the year of momentum for the agency tapped to coordinate the area’s bus service, with organizers hoping to make a splash with a new CEO and an ambitious agenda that would put a funding initiative on the ballot this fall.

But today, the Regional Transit Authority — still without a leader more than a year after it was formed by the state Legislature — is at a crossroads: Ask voters for money this fall, or wait until 2016 — giving more angst to mass transit supporters who are convinced the public will support paying for transportation improvements.

The RTA’s board meets Wednesday to debate the funding question. The authority’s executive board recommended waiting until 2016 to put a plan before the voters in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and Washtenaw counties, a move the board is expected to support. But that could mean two years before the RTA has a dedicated funding stream at a time when supporters say it needs to be able to show progress on mass transit to convince voters to support a millage or higher vehicle fees.

...

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Sometimes in cities you see old tracks coming through the asphalt and I think I've seen this in Detroit. Does anyone know where the old streetcar lines ran?

Any chance old lines are salvageable or is this just crazy thinking? I'm not an engineer and don't know anything about old rail gauges, wear and tear over time, possibility/impossibility of recovering something buried under layers of pavement.

Probably not. Subsidence is pretty harsh here in the midwest. The rails creep under decades of weight and weather. Plus the most important feature...track switches are pretty much non-existent since, IIRC only straight sections and simple turns of track are left under roads.

Still makes you think when you see them. I encountered a set of streetcar tracks walking home today, exposed from these harsh winters.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Probably not. Subsidence is pretty harsh here in the midwest. The rails creep under decades of weight and weather. Plus the most important feature...track switches are pretty much non-existent since, IIRC only straight sections and simple turns of track are left under roads.

Still makes you think when you see them. I encountered a set of streetcar tracks walking home today, exposed from these harsh winters.

I figured, but my daydreaming mind sometimes can't help but think about these things especially when the cost of building new is so astronomical these days. I'm still amazed at how extensive it was in the city...and where we are today, the hassles of trying to get just 3 miles done. So it goes.

[LMich]

Some transit news:

- Apparently, M-1 Rail went to the Detroit City Council to update them on the streetcar project, yesterday. The one big piece of news out of this that is different than what we'd been hearing earlier is that the streetcar will run off-wire for most of the trip. Earlier talk was that it'd only run off-line at key points on the route. That kind of narrows down the vendors and makes it easier to guess who the frontrunners could be. Which companies are best known for non-diesel, off-wire streetcars?

- Today is the RTA's monthly meeting. This is the one where they are going to vote on putting the RTA's funding on the ballot for 2016, for which they've received bitter criticism from transit advocates. Barring some 11th-hour miracle, I'd be shocked if they don't pass this. I guess the only good news for the RTA is that the legislature has put together an emergency supplemental for road construction and snow removal because of the harsh winter. Someone was able to slip onto this piece of legislation $2 million to fund the operation of the board. Of course, this is considering whether this can get through both houses.

BTW, speaking of both the RTA and streetcar line, it's really got me wanting the RTA to squirrel away some of that money to start a study on extending the line down the Boulevard to Henry Ford Hospital. This would really make the line far more useful and successful. They could set aside $1 million or less for this so that when the money comes available to expand it, we'll already have the study in the bag. For comparison, it took something like $2 million for the study of the entire Woodward Corridor, so a study down the three-quarters-of-a-mile Grand would be a wise investment for when the time comes.

EDIT: OMG, they aren't even trying to hide it, anymore. Oakland County's members on the board are just straight up trying to sabotage the whole thing. From TRU's facebook page:

Oakland County RTA Board members fought to delay posting of the RTA CEO position indefinitely, waiting until the legislature gives them an extra $3 million. Thankfully they were voted down and the RTA is at least looking for staffing.

I'm really thinking this should have been a popularly elected board, now. This is the work of Patterson, I'm sure of it. Not only are they delaying the funding ballot until November 2016, but some on the board didn't even want to continue the CEO search knowing that it's like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip to get money out of this tea party legislature. Mind = blown. This is turning into a disaster.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Found this map with a little searching. Amazing how extensive it was.

Someone on Reddit just posted this map of the rail line usage during peak hours from 1936 to 1937.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I figured, but my daydreaming mind sometimes can't help but think about these things especially when the cost of building new is so astronomical these days. I'm still amazed at how extensive it was in the city...and where we are today, the hassles of trying to get just 3 miles done. So it goes.

Yeah, it's hard to believe how much rail was lay so easily back in the day. Even if the rails could be restored, politics stands in the way. I've found that when it comes to construction or transportation, it's all political. I'm excited that real rail transit in Michigan could be a possibility, but I doubt it will happen in my life. If it takes 5 years to design and build a rail line in California it takes 15 or more in Michigan. To build a whole system? A half century or more.