CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Steely Dan]

^ dude, it's just an internet forum, don't take the shit that goes on here so seriously.

[Dalreg]

I'm not. No problems.

Now back to the topic.

Is O'Hare used much by private planes, such as corporate jets?

[hoosier]

Gary is the PERFECT place for a third Chicago airport. Interstate 90 and U.S. Routes 12 and 20 already serve the airport and there is little phyiscal infrastructure that would need to be removed. Not to mention that it would entail minimal environmental disruption and has the support of the people of NW Indiana. I would like to see the Illinois and Indiana state governments get together and put forward a Gary Airport modernization plan to accomodate the travel and commerce needs of the Chicagoland area.

[Marcu]

If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Marcu

If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

Agreed in principle. Gary/Indiana took a good first step by reaching into the pork barrell for the tens of millions in upgrades that will start soon, which include lengthening the main runway to 9,000ft and improving the terminal building.
Next, aside from obviously luring some commercial flights, they should run a shuttle bus to/from the nearby South Shore station, using this as leverage to demonstrate the airports convenience to downtown. They will also probably be in a better transportation position once the Dan Ryan and Kingery construction is complete, as right now, getting to the airport by car is a traffic nightmare from just about anywhere in Illinois.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Agreed in principle. Gary/Indiana took a good first step by reaching into the pork barrell for the tens of millions in upgrades that will start soon, which include lengthening the main runway to 9,000ft and improving the terminal building. Next, aside from obviously luring some commercial flights, they should run a shuttle bus to/from the nearby South Shore station, using this as leverage to demonstrate the airports convenience to downtown. They will also probably be in a better transportation position once the Dan Ryan and Kingery construction is complete, as right now, getting to the airport by car is a traffic nightmare from just about anywhere in Illinois.

Actually, under an agreement with the city of Chicago - Gary Airport receives several million $$ per year from the Chicago Airport landing fees.

It was part of Daley's superior leverage move to form an inter-state airport commission that checkmated the Illinois Republican party when they were trying to gain control of the ALL of Chicago's airports by creating a STATE wide airport commission during Republican Gov. Jim Edgar's term. The Republicans were going to give themselves 7 seats on a 11 seat board. Leaving them in firm control of all of the airports operations. Daley masterminded a Bi-State commission that used Federal Law to one up Illiinois state law.

Long-short is that Chicago has been partially financing Gary improvements.

[jpIllInoIs]

Related to O'Hare?

Gary airport gets $20 million for airport expansion


Associated Press

October 13, 2006, 1:10 PM CDT

GARY, Ind. -- The Gary-Chicago International Airport received a $20 million boost Friday when the state gave the Northwest Indiana Regional Development Authority funds earmarked for the air field.

The money, which comes from the $3.8 billion the state received for leasing the Indiana Toll Road to foreign investors, will be used to help pay for expanding one of the airport's two runways from 6,500 feet to 9,000 feet and moving railroad tracks that run along the airport's northwestern border.

City officials are hoping the expansion will help the airport, which is planning a $90 million expansion, become the region's third major air hub behind Chicago's O'Hare and Midway airports.

The $20 million in state funds, combined with local funds, has helped to attract more substantial federal grants for the runway project.

Also Friday, Sky Value, a British airline, announced it will begin service in the United States, running its first regularly scheduled passenger flights out of the Gary airport starting Dec. 1.


Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press

[Nowhereman1280]

I would think that, in addition to O'hare, Midway, and (possibly) Gary, that they should integrate Mitchell international in Milwaukee (which is a decent sized and underutilized airport) into the whole regional deal. As far as I am concerned, The Chicago region is everything south and east from the Madison-Milwaukee line to Gary.

Of course MKE (Mitchel) is currently poorly connected with Chicagoland and that would need to be fixed. There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

Has anyone heard anything about this rail line? I thought I heard that it was being built a while back?

Edit: PS, I think that Daley should pull a Meigs Field on anyone who gets in the way of the O'hare expansion and buldoze X's through the opposition's houses in the middle of the night!

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

Has anyone heard anything about this rail line? I thought I heard that it was being built a while back?

Something like this would face very stiff opposition since it would have to go through established and in many cases very wealthy suburban communites. I don't see it happening in the near future, that is unless hwy traffic gets unbearable.

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

Related to O'Hare?

Gary airport gets $20 million for airport expansion


Associated Press

October 13, 2006, 1:10 PM CDT

GARY, Ind. -- The Gary-Chicago International Airport received a $20 million boost Friday when the state gave the Northwest Indiana Regional Development Authority funds earmarked for the air field.

The money, which comes from the $3.8 billion the state received for leasing the Indiana Toll Road to foreign investors, will be used to help pay for expanding one of the airport's two runways from 6,500 feet to 9,000 feet and moving railroad tracks that run along the airport's northwestern border.

City officials are hoping the expansion will help the airport, which is planning a $90 million expansion, become the region's third major air hub behind Chicago's O'Hare and Midway airports.

The $20 million in state funds, combined with local funds, has helped to attract more substantial federal grants for the runway project.

Also Friday, Sky Value, a British airline, announced it will begin service in the United States, running its first regularly scheduled passenger flights out of the Gary airport starting Dec. 1.


Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press

This is great news. Hopefully, this will be the catalyst that Gary/Chicago International Airport needs. Yes, we do need to expand O'hare - but we also need reliever airports given the dense airspace and restrictions at O'hare (and Midway).

During the O'Hare expansion, Gary/Chicago could take on some of the international. Even after expansion, Gary could provide service for some 10M pax per year??? That would be cool if (in general), O'hare at 150M (new capacity assumed, probably assured no doubt), Midway at 20M (all domestic, Southwest Airlines HUB), and Gary/Chicago at 10M (combo of International reliever, other low cost airlines and East Coast domestic shuttle).

That scenario would put Chicagoland at 180M pax per year. Im very hopeful for the 2006 news which might pit the Chicago region at 100M pax per year.

[brian_b]

Nice, www.flyskyvalue.com - Gary to Vegas for $79 this December. Not bad.

[orulz]

Long time lurker in Chicago threads.

There really needs to be a better link between the South Shore line and the terminal at the Gary airport before it becomes a magnet for passengers from throughout the region. Right now, the train lets off on the other side of the tollway over a mile from the terminal. A shuttle bus could suffice, but that's not good enough for the thousands of passengers a day who would hopefully be using this airport.

At full build-out, the aiport's Master Plan calls for a single-location multimodal station for South Shore, intercity bus, Amtrak, and air passenger transfers. The master plan map is awfully low resolution so I can't figure out what's going on; does anyone have further information on how they'd want to do this? Perhaps a relocation so that rather than running next to the tollway, the South Shore cuts through downtown East Chicago on the freight line that's there today. There could then be a stop in East Chicago east of the tollway. This would also place the South Shore tracks right next to the tracks used by Amtrak. Perhaps they could arrange to trade the freight right-of-way for the existing South Shore right-of-way along the tollway.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by orulz

Long time lurker in Chicago threads.

There really needs to be a better link between the South Shore line and the terminal at the Gary airport before it becomes a magnet for passengers from throughout the region. Right now, the train lets off on the other side of the tollway over a mile from the terminal. A shuttle bus could suffice, but that's not good enough for the thousands of passengers a day who would hopefully be using this airport.

At full build-out, the aiport's Master Plan calls for a single-location multimodal station for South Shore, intercity bus, Amtrak, and air passenger transfers. The master plan map is awfully low resolution so I can't figure out what's going on; does anyone have further information on how they'd want to do this? Perhaps a relocation so that rather than running next to the tollway, the South Shore cuts through downtown East Chicago on the freight line that's there today. There could then be a stop in East Chicago east of the tollway. This would also place the South Shore tracks right next to the tracks used by Amtrak. Perhaps they could arrange to trade the freight right-of-way for the existing South Shore right-of-way along the tollway.

They could build a spur of that line or a people-mover from the current station like AirTrain to JFK and EWR. Midway already receives international traffic from the rest of the continent and has international gates. It's nowhere near O'hare's capacity, but it's there. MDW's max capacity as it is now, and will be for the forseeable future, is 30 mil.

Gary will eventually be Chicagoland's #2 airport years down the road, akin to Newark for the NYC region for several reasons: unlike Midway, Gary is expandable because it's almost completely surrounded by industrial sites and brownfields. Also, Gary has lots of direct transportation links: south shore, amtrak, I-90, Cline Rd. The infrastructure around the whole thing could handle another airport at least the size of what O'hare currently is long-term. It's just a matter of expanding the airport itself to some monster that O'hare's being expanded to. Look for that 30 years down the road.

[VivaLFuego]

I've thought about the rail issue at Gary too. A shuttle bus is good for now. Potentially they could also just built a spur, with some trains terminating at Gary Airport. The other key issue is that South Shore frequencies would have to be increased in order to be viable transportation to the airport, and perhaps a line from downtown to only as far as the airport would have high enough ridership to justify increased frequency (every 30 min or so)

[brian_b]

I've always thought that it would be a great idea if the Indiana casinos worked with the airport to buy/lease time on one of the right of ways that runs north of the airport and south of the casinos and into Chicago. Have stops at the casinos and the airport and then a couple in Chicago.

In fact, open Google maps on the satellite view and follow the Metra Electric/South Shore tracks south until you hit the Skyway. Build a connection right there to the railroad right of way that follows the Skyway on the north. Follow that right of way all the way to the Gary airport area and notice how it passes by the East Chicago/Whiting casino, the Hammond casino and the Gary casinos. You could even make the casino stops closer to the boats than the existing parking lots!

[jpIllInoIs]

^ It's all good... I find the very last quote most interesting. This Rep State Sen admits that the Suburban GOP is ready to get on board and vote to fund the plans. The opposition coalition is toothless and fractured for good.

[Oshkosh49]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

I would think that, in addition to O'hare, Midway, and (possibly) Gary, that they should integrate Mitchell international in Milwaukee (which is a decent sized and underutilized airport) into the whole regional deal. As far as I am concerned, The Chicago region is everything south and east from the Madison-Milwaukee line to Gary.

Of course MKE (Mitchel) is currently poorly connected with Chicagoland and that would need to be fixed. There was talk a few years back of alieviating some of the congestion at O'hare by building a high speed (150mph or something like that) train line between MKE and O'hare. At that speed it would only take 30-40 min to make the trip, not to mention it would foster regional connectivity and be enormusly popular with not only Milwaukeeians going to Chicago to shop, but also with the countless throngs of people who travel to Wisconsin from Chicago to chill out on the weekends. This would be a really simple way to greatly reduce traffic out of O'hare because MKE is capable of performing nearly all of the duties of O'hare (minus A-380s) with half the wait.

There is a brand new train station at the western edge of Mitchell International Airport that utilizes Amtrak's Hiawatha Line railroad that goes to Chicago. It opened up on January 18, 2005. It's not high speed rail, but there is a decent rail connection between Chicago and Mitchell International.

[hoosier]

Originally Posted by Marcu

If Gary wants to have a major airport do something about it. Don't wait for Chicago to hand you one. That's obviously never going to happen.

Do what Newark did with New York. Put some money forward, build it up, publicize it.

Stop looking for Chicago to prop you up.

Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by hoosier

Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

^ While agreed, I must say--take a chill pill.

Rx: Diazepam
Sig i po qd
#30
3 refills

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by hoosier

Gary is the PERFECT place for a third Chicago airport. Interstate 90 and U.S. Routes 12 and 20 already serve the airport and there is little phyiscal infrastructure that would need to be removed. Not to mention that it would entail minimal environmental disruption and has the support of the people of NW Indiana. I would like to see the Illinois and Indiana state governments get together and put forward a Gary Airport modernization plan to accomodate the travel and commerce needs of the Chicagoland area.

I never questioned that Gary is "perfect". I was simply encouraging Indiana to develop the airport and publicize it to Chicago residents. We can't rely on the Illinois legislature to put cost and convenience ahead of in-state union jobs and contracts. It's really up Indiana to take lead.

Originally Posted by hoosier

Hey asshole, go bitch to the governor and state legislature in Indianapolis about that. I was just hypothesizing that perhaps the states of Indiana and Illinois could form a regional infrastructure organization akin to the Port Authority to coordinate the transportation needs of the region.

And Milwaukee's airport is much further from Chicago than Gary's, so that city's airport should be given top consideration to fulfill the overflow of air traffic from O'Hare and Midway.

Sounds like a good idea and I'd be all for it. However, politically speaking Indiana must first commit some money towards Gary. At this point, Indiana doesn't have much to offer for Illinois at the negotiations table.

As for complaining to the Indiana governor and legislature, I'll leave that to the citizens of Indiana.