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Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:09 PM
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Cities Try to Phase Out Gas Stoves—but Cooks Are Pushing Back

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By Elena Shao | Photographs by Talia Herman for The Wall Street Journal
July 17, 2021 5:30 am ET

Gas-fired stoves are emerging as a burning issue as American cities consider phasing out natural-gas hookups to homes and businesses to reduce carbon emissions.

Many restaurant and home chefs prefer cooking on gas-burning ranges, and persuading some to switch to electric stovetops is proving to be a hard sell—a sentiment the natural-gas industry has seized on to rally opposition to new local ordinances.

Several cities, including San Francisco and Seattle, have given ground on the issue by exempting stoves from natural-gas bans, or providing pathways for restaurants to secure waivers in an attempt to minimize blowback.

The pushback on stoves demonstrates one of the challenges of reducing the emissions linked to climate change: Consumers may have to make personal sacrifices by giving up things they use and enjoy in favor of less familiar technologies.

George Chen, executive chef and founder of San Francisco restaurant China Live, said he was concerned about cities restricting a cooking technique that contributes to the texture and flavor of good Chinese cuisine that he said can’t be achieved on an electric stove . . . .

Proponents of electrification say today’s induction stoves, which use electromagnetic current to directly heat cookware, are much better than the electric cooktops of yesteryear and—once cooks learn to use them—superior to gas, too. But some restaurant industry groups and others have pushed back against efforts to force them to make the switch.

When Berkeley, Calif., became the first U.S. city to ban natural-gas connections to new homes and businesses two years ago, the California Restaurant Association sued. It argued that the restriction would harm establishments that use the fossil fuel to flame-sear meat, char vegetables and wok-toss rice and noodles. A federal judge dismissed the challenge earlier this month; the restaurant group said it plans to appeal the decision.

Since then, several dozen other U.S. municipalities, including Denver and New York, have either passed or proposed measures that ban or restrict natural gas in new or substantially renovated buildings with the hopes it will help achieve goals of reducing the carbon emissions linked to climate change. In turn, a number of states, including Texas and Georgia, have moved to prohibit local jurisdictions from enacting such bans before more cities can catch on.

The local measures would require the installation of heat pumps and electric appliances instead of gas-powered furnaces, water heaters, ovens and stoves, which are currently the norm in most of the country. Nationwide, fossil fuels burned for energy in businesses and homes sit at 13% of annual carbon emissions, according to 2019 data from the EPA.

Gas stoves’ contributions to emissions are negligible compared with the gas used to heat homes and water. Less than 3% of natural-gas use in homes comes from cooking on gas stoves, according to a 2015 residential energy survey from the U.S. Energy Information Administration . . . .
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-...d=hp_lead_pos9
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Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:14 PM
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Induction utilizes the properties of an electro-magnetic field to viberate the atoms in the cooking vessel to create heat through molecular friction – similarly to the way a magnetron in a microwave vibrates the atoms in organic compounds to heat your food directly.

There is, however, one catch. The cooking vessel must be made of a metal or at least contains a metal that reacts to a magnetic field. Unfortunately, copper and aluminum do not share this property and folks are discovering that their existing copper pots and pans – as well as some of their older expensive clad pieces – no longer work with their new induction stoves.

Some manufacturers provide an iron plate to place between the stove top and the bottom of the pan, but this is inefficient and can be a bit of pain that negates some of induction’s wonderful advantages.
https://foodal.com/kitchen/pots-pots...uction-stoves/

I just bought a new stove. I got a smooth-top electric with 2 ovens. The fact that I couldn't use my copper pans with induction pretty much ruled it out for me. I would have liked to get gas but the San Francisco building code has apparently ruled that out in high and mid-rises for decades (or so I was told when I bought my condo).
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Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:38 PM
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We had a gas line installed and swapped out our electric stove top.
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Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
https://foodal.com/kitchen/pots-pots...uction-stoves/

I just bought a new stove. I got a smooth-top electric with 2 ovens. The fact that I couldn't use my copper pans with induction pretty much ruled it out for me. I would have liked to get gas but the San Francisco building code has apparently ruled that out in high and mid-rises for decades (or so I was told when I bought my condo).
I have a GE induction range. I used to have a Frigidaire induction cooktop. Let me tell you, all induction stoves are not created equal. What I loved about the Frigidaire was when you cut the heat, the heat was definitely cut, just like on a gas stove. Boiling liquids stopped boiling immediately. With this GE stove I have had things boil over because it doesn't stop immediately. It's more like a regular electric stove in that sense. I have to lift the pot off the surface. Not happy with the GE stove.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 12:04 AM
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One option is to just ban residential gas appliances that aren't stoves. Probably less pushback from that. Of course this will decrease consumption and impact the economics of building and maintaining gas infrastructure so much that the end game is gas distribution systems go away. Which is the real goal, stoves are such a negligible source of CO2 but furnaces and water heaters do have an impact.

Another option would be to allow people who really want gas stoves to have gas canisters. However this could be a fire hazard. I know in some countries this is common, but most of those are developing countries. Ironically the best place to sunset natural gas distribution systems would be in the suburbs in places like Texas, which are not allowing rules like this. A new subdivision would be cheaper to build if it didn't need gas utilities. People who wanted gas could have a tank shed in their backyard that would be a reasonable distance from any structure and be able to vent to the outside air.

Last edited by llamaorama; Jul 18, 2021 at 12:15 AM.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 3:13 AM
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In terms of Indoor Air Quality (IAQ), gas stoves are a pretty. It's not just CO2 you need to worry about. Burning natural gas releases a whole mess of pollutants. It's wise to open up a window if you're using the stove or oven and you don't have a direct-exhaust hood.

In terms of actual cooking, I love gas stoves. They heat up and shut off immediately through the twist of the knob. Electric resistance range tops are so annoying - they take forever to heat up and cool down. I hear induction is very gas-like in terms of its response, but it only works with ferrous metals. So it's a no-go for copper, aluminum, or clay.

As homes become more airtight, the issue with bad IAQ becomes more pertinent, especially as the public becomes more aware of the effects of bad IAQ. We know CO2 as a greenhouse gas, but don't typically think of it as a poison that can affect our mental faculties in high-enough concentrations. We are also blissfully unaware of the amount of pollutants released by burning gas. In addition, there's also the pollutants that come from the actual cooking of food itself.

Here are some interesting thoughts on the subject:

https://www.treehugger.com/passive-h...ustive-4857372
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 3:38 AM
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Gas stoves are still cheaper to use then electric ones, and usually agreed to be better for cooking. Not sure how one learns to make an electric stove cook like a gas one, sounds like BS.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 5:04 AM
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Do gas stoves contribute significantly to overall US carbon emissions?

It seems like it would be minor compared to cars and electricity generation, but I'll admit that I am way out of my depth here.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 5:58 AM
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I once had an apartment in Miami with a gas stove but that is the only one I have ever seen in South Florida, the rest have always been electric.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:02 AM
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Gas stoves are definitely better for cooking especially if you stir fry to achieve proper wok hei, so I can see why restaurants would push back on this.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:28 AM
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Induction is cool, but it really can't compare to gas in terms of ease of cooking. I also just feel there is so much lower hanging fruit to tackle in terms of carbon emissions.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 1:07 PM
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Who wrote the headline?! They dropped the ball.

Fixed it:

Cities Try to Phase Out Gas Stoves—but Cooks Are FIRING Back
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Gas stoves are definitely better for cooking especially if you stir fry to achieve proper wok hei, so I can see why restaurants would push back on this.
In as much as I haven't been able to have a gas stove for 40 years, I have found that using a cast iron wok works better on an electric stove than the Chinese-preferred carbon steel. Cast iron retains the heat better and doesn't cool down when you put in the food. With gas, you can accomplish the same thing with a blasting flame but that can't be done on electric stoves.

It's a work around but it works decently.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dchan View Post
Electric resistance range tops are so annoying - they take forever to heat up and cool down. I hear induction is very gas-like in terms of its response, but it only works with ferrous metals. So it's a no-go for copper, aluminum, or clay.
My new LG electric stove has a special "super-heat" (aka "instant boil") burner that is supposed to improve on that phenomenon and it seems to help.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
We had a gas line installed and swapped out our electric stove top.
Lucky you.

London is trying to do this. Unfortunately the mainstream Brit can’t cook and doesn’t really appreciate good food anyway, so there’s little resistance. Electric cooktops are garbage for numerous reasons, and induction isn’t much better. My current apartment has induction and I can’t even cook a steak indoors because the fucking thing overheats and switches off.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:05 PM
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Proponents of electrification say today’s induction stoves, which use electromagnetic current to directly heat cookware, are much better than the electric cooktops of yesteryear and—once cooks learn to use them—superior to gas, too.
White people. I'm sure electric is great if you eat food with no culture. I'm not strongly opposed to these laws, but there's always this whitewashing of ethnic/cultural traditions that's so dismissive when we talk about climate change laws in the US. And a lot of times, directly targeting them. Chinese food taste even better if you replace the real meat with sustainable quinoa meat. Bonus: you also don't have to eat the gross parts of the animal that actual Chinese people use! Jamie Oliver has made of career of this.

Last edited by ocman; Jul 18, 2021 at 9:27 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dchan View Post
In terms of actual cooking, I love gas stoves. They heat up and shut off immediately through the twist of the knob. Electric resistance range tops are so annoying - they take forever to heat up and cool down. I hear induction is very gas-like in terms of its response, but it only works with ferrous metals. So it's a no-go for copper, aluminum, or clay.

As homes become more airtight, the issue with bad IAQ becomes more pertinent, especially as the public becomes more aware of the effects of bad IAQ. We know CO2 as a greenhouse gas, but don't typically think of it as a poison that can affect our mental faculties in high-enough concentrations. We are also blissfully unaware of the amount of pollutants released by burning gas. In addition, there's also the pollutants that come from the actual cooking of food itself.
See above for the real issue with induction. Yes it can be turned up and down quickly (but pushing buttons like a thermostat rather than a quick twist of a knob - incredibly annoying if you’ve got things on different burners at the same time). The real issue is that they overheat.

I cook mostly with cast iron or carbon steel pans, which are ferrous and “work” on induction. But they work because of heat retention (and the amount of ambient heat they can then release). By the time you get the thing ripping hot, as necessary to get a good sear on a piece of meat, it starts beeping and turns off because it’s overheated. A range top that gets too hot to work. Imagine that.

As for indoor air pollution, I’m not going to worry about what my gas range is releasing into the air (which is probably cleared by a good extractor fan anyway - which you obviously need for high heat cooking because of smoke anyway), and then get on my bike to get around London trailing diesel vans and buses blowing exhaust in my face. Have a bit of perspective.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:11 PM
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Induction is cool, but it really can't compare to gas in terms of ease of cooking. I also just feel there is so much lower hanging fruit to tackle in terms of carbon emissions.
There is nothing cool about induction. I wonder if a good compromise is to popularize ranges with one gas burner to 3 electric on stovetop, and all-electric oven.

Last edited by ocman; Jul 18, 2021 at 9:24 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:21 PM
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Lucky you.

London is trying to do this. Unfortunately the mainstream Brit can’t cook and doesn’t really appreciate good food anyway, so there’s little resistance. Electric cooktops are garbage for numerous reasons, and induction isn’t much better. My current apartment has induction and I can’t even cook a steak indoors because the fucking thing overheats and switches off.
It wasn't cheap but worth it. Plus, adds value to the house.

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Originally Posted by ocman View Post
White people. I'm sure electric is great if you eat food with no culture. I'm not strongly opposed to these laws, but there's always this whitewashing of ethnic/cultural traditions that's so dismissive when we talk about climate change laws in the US. Chinese food taste even better if you replace the real meat with sustainable quinoa meat. Bonus: you also don't have to eat the gross parts of the animal that actual Chinese people use! Jamie Oliver has made of career of this.
I'm not sure how we managed to drag race into a discussion about stoves...but race is injected into just about everything else now so why not. Fact is most people (regardless of race) who cook agree that gas is better.
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Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 9:39 PM
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It wasn't cheap but worth it. Plus, adds value to the house.



I'm not sure how we managed to drag race into a discussion about stoves...but race is injected into just about everything else now so why not. Fact is most people (regardless of race) who cook agree that gas is better.
Because the pro-position, which I'm talking about, is constantly championed using an exclusive western context that's deeply ingrained in talks about climate change behavior. And if you're not white, you spot it easily. Yes, most people do agree gas is better. Also, it's not dragged into the discussion. The article covers the detriment this has to Chinese cuisine, specifically.
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