HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Completed Project Threads Archive


The Spiral in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • New York Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
New York Projects & Construction Forum

 

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #281  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 12:05 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I would actually prefer a 1450-1600 foot building very well designed.
Well designed is the key. We already know that the Hudson Yards district will be a sea of very tall towers, many of them supertalls. For this building to stand out though, it needs both distinctive design, and a height boost above the others of at least a few hundred ft. That would put it in that 1,500 ft or more range. I really want Tishman to make a statement, as this will be their signature tower in the Hudson Yards.


http://www.madgi.com/portfolio/view/hudson-yards.html

Helmut Jahn


http://archrecord.construction.com/n...udsonyards.asp


http://observer.com/2007/11/west-sid...yers-go-roman/
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
  #282  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 12:20 AM
Onn Onn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
That's just the thing. You can not force feed tenants into lower Manhattan. Not everyone wants to be down there, and not everyone will move down there, no matter what the rent is. If the WTC was on the west side, I could see that point. But trying to freeze office development in the city until the WTC is completed would only lead to tenants extending existing leases and waiting it out. There are lots of developers in the city, lots of potential landlords. Silverstein has as much a chance at landing a tenant as anyone else, but his towers are in a different location. Goldman Sachs could have leased one of his WTC towers, but they wanted their own. Had the city blocked it, they could have just reverted to earlier plans, and built a new headquarters in Jersey City.

Beyond that, despite the available space, the WTC is limited in the grand scheme of Manhattan office space. Take Related's towers for example. Time Warner basically got the north tower, no other signature tenant will look at it as prime headquarters space because TW already got the best floors (the higher floors tend to be smaller and more expensive). So the city needs to be realistic, and have multiple options. Then you have the category of tenants. Law Firms, for example, won't likely be the firms leading the charge to the new WTC . Yet, as a group, they are one of the largest users of office space in Manhattan.

The WTC is Downtown, and it will just take longer to fill the space. We learned that at least from the original complex.
I get all that. But the problem is the city gave Related tax incentives to develop the Hudson Yards site which meant they could charge lower rates for their space. Meanwhile, WTC kind of got the shaft as far as tax breaks from the city government, at least for towers 2, 3, and 4. They should have either given Silverstein tax incentives to develop the site or companies tax incentives for moving to the new WTC site. I feel like the city shot themselves in the foot.

People (including businesses) come to New York expecting to see a rebuilt WTC. Instead their going to get something totally different, while the WTC sits and waits for completion. I just get that feeling like you can't build something new before rebuilding what was once there. Hudson Yards is not helping return faith in lower Manhattan.
     
     
  #283  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 1:05 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post

People (including businesses) come to New York expecting to see a rebuilt WTC. Instead their going to get something totally different, while the WTC sits and waits for completion. I just get that feeling like you can't build something new before rebuilding what was once there. Hudson Yards is not helping return faith in lower Manhattan.

Might sound a little cold regarding the WTC, but Midtown is the future. Lower Manhattan is still great for business, but Midtown West, and East (Rezoning), will become the future catalyst for business in NYC. The WTC has been a struggle to built given the circumstances, but this is how this city works. Capitalism at its finest. Once set and done, the Hudson Yards will become a major player for business (and the surrounding areas in its proximity). Don't worry though, the WTC complex will be built. Give it time... patients is the key. We are witnessing the 21st Century downtown of NY being developed as we speak. Something very positive to think about.
     
     
  #284  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 12:39 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
I get all that. But the problem is the city gave Related tax incentives to develop the Hudson Yards site which meant they could charge lower rates for their space. Meanwhile, WTC kind of got the shaft as far as tax breaks from the city government, at least for towers 2, 3, and 4. They should have either given Silverstein tax incentives to develop the site or companies tax incentives for moving to the new WTC site. I feel like the city shot themselves in the foot.
Silverstein got a lot more than tax breaks, and all of a 10 year headstart over the Hudson Yards. He has no direct competition Downtown, unlike the towers of the west side. His towers will sit over a multi-billion dollar transportation hub, with multiple subway lines, and another newly built transit hub a block away, all connected. The Hudson Yards meanwhile will get one lone subway line. Yet, it is the Hudson Yards that has all of the momentum of office development. (Downtown, like the rest of New York, is experiencing a boom on residential tower development).

Silverstein has been handed the keys to success, and he will get it. The problem here, is what I don't think you and a lot of other people realize. I keep saying it, but that's because it's true - it takes time to absorb all of that space Downtown. We're talking 10 millions square feet of brand new office space. Downtown is comparable to Chicago, for example, in terms of office space, but you throw 10 msf of office space at one time on the market in Chicago, there will be issues with filling it. There's no particular reason why all of the WTC space has to be built at once, other than the fact that we want it to, so the rebuilding can be complete, and disruptions over.

But we can't have it both ways. Either the Port Authority builds out all 10 msf of space, and let it sit empty until it gradually fills, or subsidize the tenancy even more until more traditional tenants can move in. But no one wants to repeat that, and the towers and office space there are being subjected to the Downtown market. Even building that space doesn't guarantee that a company will move from Midtown to establish a headquarters there. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that Citigroup passed over the Hudson Yards, and decided to move headquarters Downtown. But where did they decide to go? Not the WTC. That's not to say the WTC won't get its tenants. It will. But it would be foolish to freeze the rest of the city until that happens. You don't starve one part of town to feed another.

For one thing, Midtown Manhattan is not without its own issues, largest among them the age of it's office stock. New York is a large city, and in the grand scheme of things, the WTC's 10 msf may seem like a drop that should have been filled already. But Downtown is also a market of its own, and consider how much office space has been built there other than the WTC over the past decade or two.



Quote:
People (including businesses) come to New York expecting to see a rebuilt WTC. Instead their going to get something totally different, while the WTC sits and waits for completion. I just get that feeling like you can't build something new before rebuilding what was once there. Hudson Yards is not helping return faith in lower Manhattan.
And that is not the mission of the Hudson Yards. If that's what you think it is, you've lost the point of it entirely. But people who visit Downtown will see a vastly improving Downtown, much better than it was pre 9/11. It's not the WTC alone that shows the faith in Downtown, though with two of the towers all but completed, and soon to be filling with tenants, its hard to see that as a failure. The crowds of tourists who swarm the area each day don't see it that way. They look up, and point & shoot. They couldn't do that if there were nothing there.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
  #285  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 1:39 PM
rlw777 rlw777 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I don't know if I would actually want something much higher than 1800 feet with a spire. The Burj looks weird on Dubai's skyline and something that size would look weird here too. I like that building but it isn't NYC.

I would actually prefer a 1450-1600 foot building very well designed.
I'm not worried about it being too tall. Many of the most iconic buildings in the world looked pretty out of context when they were built. Sears tower, ESB, Chrysler building all dwarfed their surroundings when they were built. Heck ESB still dwarfs everything within a few city blocks.
     
     
  #286  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 7:40 PM
supertallchaser's Avatar
supertallchaser supertallchaser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 219
Quote:
Tishman Speyer has announced that it has purchased a full block of undeveloped land parcels in Hudson Yards, the fast-expanding west side neighborhood and business district of Midtown Manhattan. The acquisition of the land grants the company the ability to purchase additional development rights, as well as the right to build what could be one of the world’s tallest buildings, the Hudson Spire.

The goal is to establish the Hudson Yards development as the next great commercial district and neighborhood. The location and configuration of the latest land purchase are ideally suited to a mix of programs, particularly office and street-level retail. The development would add to the already dynamic plan for office space, new housing, retail space, and new hotels in the Hudson Yards district. It will be additionally enhanced by the extension of the subway line, the addition of the new Hudson Park and Boulevard and completion of the final phase of the High Line elevated park.

The proposal for the mixed-use Hudson Spire puts the estimated building height at 549 meters, with a total building area of 2.8 million square feet (265,000 square meters), which would grant it the title of the tallest building in North America. Although financial details were not disclosed by Tishman Speyer, an independent report states that Tishman Speyer acquired portions of the undeveloped parcels for around US$200 million.
got this off of the cbtuh news looks promising
__________________
432 Park Ave. is life
     
     
  #287  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 11:43 PM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,042
I'm guessing 2.85msf isn't counting mechanical and retail space etc?
     
     
  #288  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 1:38 AM
Onn Onn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Might sound a little cold regarding the WTC, but Midtown is the future. Lower Manhattan is still great for business, but Midtown West, and East (Rezoning), will become the future catalyst for business in NYC. The WTC has been a struggle to built given the circumstances, but this is how this city works. Capitalism at its finest. Once set and done, the Hudson Yards will become a major player for business (and the surrounding areas in its proximity). Don't worry though, the WTC complex will be built. Give it time... patients is the key. We are witnessing the 21st Century downtown of NY being developed as we speak. Something very positive to think about.
Midtown is only the future because the city has made it the future, they CHOSE to develop the area RIGHT NOW. They could have easily directed more resources to rebuilding the WTC sit, as it should be. Leaving an empty space in such a major city is unacceptable.
     
     
  #289  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 4:19 AM
antinimby antinimby is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In syndication
Posts: 2,098
^ The city has no control over the WTC site.

@ Zapatan- Retail is counted in the sf but mechanicals are not.
     
     
  #290  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 5:37 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Hey, why not 5,000 ft! Realisticly though, let's keep this tower where it is, a potential supertall that could be taller the New York's other supertalls.
No! Absolutely not! They won't allow it. Too high!! FAA won't allow it. Due to height restrictions. They have to be lower than 1,800 feet or below.
     
     
  #291  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 8:24 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
No! Absolutely not! They won't allow it. Too high!! FAA won't allow it. Due to height restrictions. They have to be lower than 1,800 feet or below.
He obviously wasn't serious, you need to learn to detect obvious internet sarcasm.

I don't really see NY or the US building a building taller than the Sears so I doubt it will reach that high, but I hope they prove my conservative self wrong.
     
     
  #292  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 8:27 PM
Blaze23 Blaze23 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC
Posts: 214
I can't believe how fast things might be moving.

Two developers wooing Deutsche Bank, a big tenant
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...k-a-big-tenant
Quote:
Tishman Speyer, the large real estate investor and developer, has quickly made itself a player in the Hudson Yards neighborhood where it just closed on an over $400 million deal to buy a development site where it can build a massive 2.85 million-square-foot tower.
The firm has met with Deutsche Bank to pitch to the European financial giant the opportunity to become the anchor tenant in what could be an over 80-story tower. That effort comes as the Related Cos. is trying to do much the same thing with the bank at the developer's planned Hudson Yards residential, commercial and retail complex nearby in the west side neighborhood.

Deutsche Bank has several offices in the city, including a large space in lower Manhattan at 60 Wall Street that several sources say it may decide to vacate. The bank's lease there stretches until 2021, but it has the option to downsize there three years from now in 2017, just enough time to deliver a new tower at either development for its occupancy.
Deutsche Bank exercised a previous right to downsize at 60 Wall St., shedding 130,000 square feet there in 2012.
The Related Cos., recently broke ground for its complex to be built mostly over the rail yards there. The developer is trying to bring Deutsche Bank to one of its towers there, likely 30 Hudson Yards, a soaring tower that will be anchored by Time Warner. Related just began construction on it.

The developer is also in the process of building 10 Hudson Yards, a new headquarters building for Coach at the south end of the rail yards site and is planning another office tower, 55 Hudson Yards, on a neighboring site across from the rail yards that is being planned to cater to law firms.
Deutsche Bank is one of several large office tenants being courted by developers in the Hudson Yards area. So far, no financial firms have committed there, though several, including Citigroup, seriously considered moving there.
Tishman Speyer was the MTA's original pick to develop the West Side rail yards in 2008, but the firm quickly backed out of the deal as the recession began to take hold. The Related Cos. stepped in and completed the transaction as the real estate market sunk into a deep recession and struck sizable leases there as the real estate market in the city rebounded in recent years.
In recent weeks, Tishman Speyer came back to the neighborhood, acquiring the large development site, which comprises the whole block between West 34th and 35th Street stretching from 10th Avenue to the new Hudson Boulevard.
     
     
  #293  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 8:50 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,694
Just to compare, One World Trade Center has 3 million square feet. The ESB has 2.7 million sq ft. A "2.85 million-square-foot tower", and a smaller footprint will make this a monster.

Add now some architectural elements, and there is a good possibility that this could be NYC's new tallest. I'd be nice to get a megatall but I might just be fantasizing at this point. Either way, something very tall is going to rise for sure.
     
     
  #294  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 10:28 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
Midtown is only the future because the city has made it the future, they CHOSE to develop the area RIGHT NOW. They could have easily directed more resources to rebuilding the WTC sit, as it should be. Leaving an empty space in such a major city is unacceptable.
Wrong on many fronts. For one thing, Midtown was the future of the city long before the original WTC development even came to be. But there are just too many things wrong with that statement to get into it here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze23 View Post
I can't believe how fast things might be moving.
I was just thinking the same thing. Just when I think its as hot as it will get, things start to ignite again...



Quote:
Tishman Speyer, the large real estate investor and developer, has quickly made itself a player in the Hudson Yards neighborhood where it just closed on an over $400 million deal to buy a development site where it can build a massive 2.85 million-square-foot tower.

The firm has met with Deutsche Bank to pitch to the European financial giant the opportunity to become the anchor tenant in what could be an over 80-story tower.
Over 80-stories for an office tower these days is pretty tall. Our tallest office building proposals now come in the 60's range. Anyway, it looks like Tishman doesn't want to wait around, and is eager to get its own Hudson Yards development off the ground.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
  #295  
Old Posted May 9, 2014, 12:09 PM
Onn Onn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Wrong on many fronts. For one thing, Midtown was the future of the city long before the original WTC development even came to be. But there are just too many things wrong with that statement to get into it here.
Even so, there was no reason to build another business district when one was on the brink of collapse. This is a partly a government issue, it's not solely about capitalism. And in my opinion the city, and maybe even the state, failed here. They didn't get the job done on a very important rebuild. It's only a half finished job.
     
     
  #296  
Old Posted May 9, 2014, 12:28 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
Even so, there was no reason to build another business district when one was on the brink of collapse. This is a partly a government issue, it's not solely about capitalism. And in my opinion the city, and maybe even the state, failed here. They didn't get the job done on a very important rebuild. It's only a half finished job.
Yes there was. You're way behind the times. Planning for the Hudson Yards began before 9/11. And you are right about one thing, it was a government issue. The City forsaw the need for a new and expanded business district, and planning, and ultimately plans were put in motion.

As far as the WTC rebuilding goes, it is a far cry from being a failure. There are already two towers up, and you know what, if they had decided to put all of the commercial space in two towers instead of five, you would have nothing to complain about, except empty office towers. Anyone who didn't know better learned better the first time around. That's why the office space at the WTC is being developed in multiple towers. New York is a large city. It effectively operates with two major downtowns, and multiple satellites. There's no forcing companies to locate from one to another. Some companies from Midtown may move Downtown, some from Downtown may move to Midtown. Or some may move out of the city altogher (see Jersey City). As I've mentioned earlier, Midtown is not without its own problems. In fact, the problems there were greater than building space at the WTC, where there is at least the option to build. Your misplaced concern about the WTC redevelopment should be taken to one of those threads, as we've already wasted enough time rehashing it here.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
  #297  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 9:52 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
May 12, 2014


__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
  #298  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 10:25 AM
Silverfox's Avatar
Silverfox Silverfox is offline
Gigatall Skyscraper
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 134
What will become of the Coca Cola sign?
     
     
  #299  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 2:00 PM
Onn Onn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Yes there was. You're way behind the times. Planning for the Hudson Yards began before 9/11. And you are right about one thing, it was a government issue. The City forsaw the need for a new and expanded business district, and planning, and ultimately plans were put in motion.
They didn't start building at the Hudson Yards until way after they started rebuilding the WTC site. And yet almost all the major deals are being made at Hudson Yards. The WTC site is going to sit at least half empty for years to come.
     
     
  #300  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 2:58 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 51,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
They didn't start building at the Hudson Yards until way after they started rebuilding the WTC site.
Exactly.


Quote:
And yet almost all the major deals are being made at Hudson Yards. The WTC site is going to sit at least half empty for years to come.
All of the major deals aren't being made at the WTC site. Downtown has had, and continues to have major signings.

http://nypost.com/2014/05/12/office-...amic-downtown/

Now take this WTC discussion to one of the WTC threads.
__________________
NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
 

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Completed Project Threads Archive
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.