Winnipeg Construction X

[esquire]

^ That's an impressive project. The first tower alone has done a lot to help modernize and redefine the south Pembina streetscape.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That's an impressive project. The first tower alone has done a lot to help modernize and redefine the south Pembina streetscape.

All this downtown construction is so exciting to one that moved out of province due to job opossum elsewhere. If Winnipeg had the opportunities in my field of work that Alberta has, I would move back tomorrow.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That's an impressive project. The first tower alone has done a lot to help modernize and redefine the south Pembina streetscape.

Hopefully they can figure out their management issues. Reviews for the ARC are poor because of staffing and management problems, and I see many posts for units in there looking to be sublet (granted there are a ton of units and they rent by the bedroom). Especially given how much is charged per room.

[optimusREIM]

These projects are quite impressive. I can only imagine what the area will be like in 10 years assuming that all the southwood lands start getting developed. The amount of densification along Pembina and radiating out from the university is staggering really. It wasn't very noticeable at first, but with these projects and the ones across the tracks, plus the behemoth block closer to the perimeter, the refinery district, and some of the stuff further north, it's starting to really feel more bulky.

[Coil]

These towers are eyesores.

Throwing a bunch of XXXL sized buildings onto Pembina is not a replacement for appropriate urban design. This area is a planning disaster.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by Coil

These towers are eyesores.

Throwing a bunch of XXXL sized buildings onto Pembina is not a replacement for appropriate urban design. This area is a planning disaster.

Sure some of the towers are quite hideous. But the Arc and it’s phase 2 project seem to be quite nice and have a good street orientation.

[esquire]

I disagree that they are "hideous"... if you made a list of the biggest eyesores built in Winnipeg over the last 20 years, these wouldn't even make the cut. It's a lot better than what was there before. It's about as good as what could reasonably be expected for a suburban stroad.

[WinCitySparky]

The Arc is a stunner, Phase 2 not as much but still better than a parking lot or a small commercial box. More overall property taxes paid is better than less overall property taxes paid. Solving the illegal rooming house problem is also a big bonus. I like it.

[Coil]

Well, OK, honestly I don't much care what it looks like.

It could be the nicest tower in the world and it wouldn't make that area a pleasant place to be. It's likely that the meaningful planning decisions were made decades ago and I'm just an old crank, but jamming every large building and commercial use onto an 8-lane highway and having nothing but single family housing beyond is an atrocious way to plan a city and it's a shame we are forced to continue down that road.

[esquire]

^ What is the best case scenario for South Pembina, though? I'm not sure that even a massive influx of capital and the very best intentions could do much for it. You'll never turn it into Greenwich Village. At least not when there are tens of thousands of cars roaring by each day.

[1ajs]

peminda has a less dreary feeling walking it these days they have made a diff

[WinCitySparky]

It is a highway, I guess

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

It is a highway, I guess

If we can get a bunch of high density towers along Pembina we have a chance of making the Awful Canadian Stroad Thread lol

[thebasketballgeek]

Not a single one of our main arterials besides maybe St. Mary’s is a pleasant walk. When you have a sidewalk with no buffer to the street and car lanes take up 90% of the streetscape you’re going to have a bad time.

But to say there’s no way to improve it means we aren’t thinking critically enough about how the street should realistically be designed. Nor does it mean we can’t have active street fronts and high volumes of pedestrian activity on these streets. The Haussman style Parisian Boulevards are just as wide if not wider then a lot of our stroads yet they are very successful in generating activity. What it means is that if u have the right land use, transit, and density adjacent to the street it’s very hard to fuck it up.

Even the Netherlands who are known for their urbanism have wide ass streets like below.

The Blaak in Rotterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6aFWYYnT6vX2XZF8?g_st=ic

Insulindeweg in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/43i2jru4ofxCTE136?g_st=ic

Damrak in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9MRoEa3Q8Lm9TaGQ6?g_st=ic

Prinsegracht in Den Haag: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0732...062720&g_st=ic

Vleutenseweg in Utrecht: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MiV7sWVCE3dbfFxc9?g_st=ic

Are these perfect? Absolutely not, but they are much less hostile streets to pedestrians, cyclists, and transit users then our arterials. With the space of our dedicated ROW’s Winnipeg could have amazing boulevards, but instead we do the bare minimum to keep it functioning.

[Sheepish]

Much closer to home...Michigan Ave in Chicago. That should be the model for Portage Ave.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Are these perfect? Absolutely not, but they are much less hostile streets to pedestrians, cyclists, and transit users then our arterials. With the space of our dedicated ROW’s Winnipeg could have amazing boulevards, but instead we do the bare minimum to keep it functioning.

That's a fair criticism, but every complex like Arc is a small step in the right direction. It even has actual storefronts with no parking lots out in front!

[Coil]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Not a single one of our main arterials besides maybe St. Mary’s is a pleasant walk. When you have a sidewalk with no buffer to the street and car lanes take up 90% of the streetscape you’re going to have a bad time.

But to say there’s no way to improve it means we aren’t thinking critically enough about how the street should realistically be designed. Nor does it mean we can’t have active street fronts and high volumes of pedestrian activity on these streets. The Haussman style Parisian Boulevards are just as wide if not wider then a lot of our stroads yet they are very successful in generating activity. What it means is that if u have the right land use, transit, and density adjacent to the street it’s very hard to fuck it up.

Even the Netherlands who are known for their urbanism have wide ass streets like below.

The Blaak in Rotterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6aFWYYnT6vX2XZF8?g_st=ic

Insulindeweg in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/43i2jru4ofxCTE136?g_st=ic

Damrak in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9MRoEa3Q8Lm9TaGQ6?g_st=ic

Prinsegracht in Den Haag: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0732...062720&g_st=ic

Vleutenseweg in Utrecht: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MiV7sWVCE3dbfFxc9?g_st=ic

Are these perfect? Absolutely not, but they are much less hostile streets to pedestrians, cyclists, and transit users then our arterials. With the space of our dedicated ROW’s Winnipeg could have amazing boulevards, but instead we do the bare minimum to keep it functioning.

Very nice examples.

One thing that sticks out is the European tendency to keep building heights mid-sized but have the blocks continuous. An apartment the size of the Arc would be unusual in most European cities.

[pegster]

Also closer to home, Woodward Avenue in Detroit's currently revitalizing downtown (https://maps.app.goo.gl/RmeopJ4eftdEwghG9) might be a good model for what a revitalization of Portage Avenue could be. A very wide road, reduced to two lanes each way, with a new streetcar line, and widened sidewalks that accomodate restaurant patios. (Not enough active transportation though.)

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by pegster

Also closer to home, Woodward Avenue in Detroit's currently revitalizing downtown (https://maps.app.goo.gl/RmeopJ4eftdEwghG9) might be a good model for what a revitalization of Portage Avenue could be. A very wide road, reduced to two lanes each way, with a new streetcar line, and widened sidewalks that accomodate restaurant patios. (Not enough active transportation though.)

Except Detroit has massive interstates boarding 3 sides of their downtown so ease of access for vehicle traffic is barely infringed upon by narrowing Woodward avenue.

Contrast that to Winnipeg, where Portage Avenue and Main Street are probably responsible for handling 50% of traffic in, out, and throughout downtown - eliminating one or multiple lanes from Portage would substantially increase congestion everywhere else and lead to an increase in commute times. And before people say "lol just take the bus", you have to consider how adamant Canadians are about prying cars from their cold dead fingers, and replacing two lanes on Portage with BRT isn't going to substantially increase the attractiveness of transit nearly enough to offset the increase in car congestion.

It's easy for American cities that have three or four high capacity freeways running around the perimeter of downtown to change one or two stroads to something more pedestrian and transit friendly. It's a lot harder for Canadian cities like Winnipeg, where those one or two stroads carry the bulk of traffic, to do the same thing without severe consequences; consequences that might be quite harmful in the short run no matter how much you hate cars.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Not a single one of our main arterials besides maybe St. Mary’s is a pleasant walk. When you have a sidewalk with no buffer to the street and car lanes take up 90% of the streetscape you’re going to have a bad time.

But to say there’s no way to improve it means we aren’t thinking critically enough about how the street should realistically be designed. Nor does it mean we can’t have active street fronts and high volumes of pedestrian activity on these streets. The Haussman style Parisian Boulevards are just as wide if not wider then a lot of our stroads yet they are very successful in generating activity. What it means is that if u have the right land use, transit, and density adjacent to the street it’s very hard to fuck it up.

Even the Netherlands who are known for their urbanism have wide ass streets like below.

The Blaak in Rotterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6aFWYYnT6vX2XZF8?g_st=ic

Insulindeweg in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/43i2jru4ofxCTE136?g_st=ic

Damrak in Amsterdam: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9MRoEa3Q8Lm9TaGQ6?g_st=ic

Prinsegracht in Den Haag: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0732...062720&g_st=ic

Vleutenseweg in Utrecht: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MiV7sWVCE3dbfFxc9?g_st=ic

Are these perfect? Absolutely not, but they are much less hostile streets to pedestrians, cyclists, and transit users then our arterials. With the space of our dedicated ROW’s Winnipeg could have amazing boulevards, but instead we do the bare minimum to keep it functioning.

Those are nice examples that we should try to apply to some of the Stroads here. Unfortunately again though, there is an aspect in all these cities that Winnipeg does not have. It is the one that every one claims we dodged a bullet in not building. It is the one that helps to take the strain off these Stroads helping to make them more walk-able with transit, bike lanes and wide sidewalks.

What to all these ancient, walkable cities have....tons of freeways to get traffic off the main streets. Take a look at Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Antwerp etc. There are freeways everywhere but in the densest part of the city centre. Almost every walk-able European city has a freeway encircling it's historic city centre.

All of our Stroads are this cities only cross-town routes. I would argue that there is no other first world developed city on the planet in our situation. We are very unique.

Our problem is that we need a mix of rapid transit, active transit, regular roads and freeways. Our city basically has none of these other than regular roads.