CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[MayorOfChicago]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

O wow, that’s cool. I’m so confused by that circle project, though. The staging on that project has to be intense.

I'm very curious to see it when it's FINALLY done. They're really going to squeeze a lot of lanes into that area. There are 16 lanes of traffic planned for between Adams and Jackson.

There are roughly 30 lanes of traffic that will be contained inside the Harrison, Van Buren, Halsted, Des Plaines block of roads.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

That’s because it hasn’t been “discovered” yet by evil developers and their evil armies of yuppies who drink fancy cocktails

I'm just theorizing here, but I think it's more so that the first "typical" station on the Pink Line isn't until 18th St. I'd guess most riders between Lake and Polk are arriving on outbound trains and leaving on inbound ones. 18th St. may be the first station to see more traditional commuters (inbound riders AM / outbound PM). This may be why the Pink Line doesn't need to consistently run 8 car trains. It may be the closest L line to having balanced ridership. I'll have to look into it.

The Pink Line could use stops at Roosevelt and Madison, but that'll only happen if there's a lot of infill. I also think it'd be beneficial if the Pink Line took a counter clockwise course after entering at Lake/Wells and instead of making the full loop, went south at Van Buren/Wabash and out to 63rd and Ashland. That would address issues of infrequent on the far south side and decrease congestion in the Loop since there'd be fewer trains making left turns at junctions (maybe inbound trains could use Wabash/Lake legs and not Wells/Van Buren?). Passengers would still have access to both sides of the Loop if they were coming on a Pink Line train that didn't use the Lake/Wabash legs of the Loop by transfer at four station of the shared stops on the west side.

[IrishIllini]

Does anyone know if the CTA keeps detailed data on L ridership? Can you see the ridership broken out into inbound and outbound trips? I assume the turnstiles are tracking that, but I don't have any concrete way of knowing.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Does anyone know if the CTA keeps detailed data on L ridership? Can you see the ridership broken out into inbound and outbound trips? I assume the turnstiles are tracking that, but I don't have any concrete way of knowing.

Cta ridership reports give station totals, but turnstiles at most stations serve both directions. Where the stations have multiple entrances, they list them separately.
What I'd like to see is one broken down by time of day.

http://www.transitchicago.com/ridership/default.aspx

[the urban politician]

Pink Line at Roosevelt?

Sheesh... Like the fancy new investments at Blue Line and Belmont, I just have to laugh. I laugh at how much this city throws money away at auto oriented planning.

Property owners of sites with auto-oriented design should be penalized, not awarded with gleaming new train stations. They should pay a hefty tax for every surface parking spot. Look at that horrible Costco just north of Pilsen.

I'm so sick of this shit. The city's transit legacy is a gift from the past, but there are too many places where we squander it.

As a property owner myself, here is what I think is a fair proposal:

For commercial properties within 500 ft of a transit stop, the city implements a per-parking-spot tax of X dollars, beginning in 3 years, which goes up every year for 5 years until it reaches the goal rate.

[IrishIllini]

The area where the Pink Line crosses Roosevelt is very auto-oriented, yes. There's also a lot of vacant land and it's very close to downtown. We're not trying to retrofit Schaumburg here. BRT would work well on Roosevelt IMO. A Pink Line station there would only increase the area's attractiveness to multi-family/mixed use developers.

[Mr Downtown]

. . . who can't build there because it's all IMD land.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

. . . who can't build there because it's all IMD land.

There are quite a few large scale redevelopment opportunities along both Ashland and Roosevelt in this area and both streets have real potential for effective BRT. Pretty much everything within the boundaries of Western, Roosevelt, Halsted, and the BNSF could be razed IMO. I understand some of that is IMD land, but certainly not all. There are higher priority redevelopment sites in the city, but this area could be something special.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I understand some of that is IMD land, but certainly not all.

Virtually all.
Oakley to Ashland, down to 14th is all IMD.
East of Ashland, it's a dog's breakfast of instututional developments.

[IrishIllini]

Is there a reason(s) that IMD owning land has anything to do with a Pink Line stop at Roosevelt? I'm assuming that people would be working or visiting these future IMD buildings. I guess they could always add more surface parking?

OTOH, even if all of the IMD land was developed without any residential component due to zoning and the FBI's campus remained as is, that presence plus the ongoing redevelopment to the east would make Roosevelt a good candidate for an L station. IMD's mission is to be a world leader in patient care and research while also driving economic growth. I don't see why they'd be opposed to a station there. If they are successful in their mission, it would certainly improve access to future buildings on the south side of the district.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Is there a reason(s) that IMD owning land has anything to do with a Pink Line stop at Roosevelt? I'm assuming that people would be working or visiting these future IMD buildings. I guess they could always add more surface parking?

OTOH, even if all of the IMD land was developed without any residential component due to zoning and the FBI's campus remained as is, that presence plus the ongoing redevelopment to the east would make Roosevelt a good candidate for an L station. IMD's mission is to be a world leader in patient care and research while also driving economic growth. I don't see why they'd be opposed to a station there. If they are successful in their mission, it would certainly improve access to future buildings on the south side of the district.

As someone who lives less than a mile from this, I don't really see the need. The problem with IMD is that they don't use land very efficiently, even in the core area. They're about to tear down the old Fantus Clinic for more parking, right at the intersection of the Damen and Harrison buses and a block from the Blue Line.

If the IMD comes out with a plan for dense, walkable development here, including mixed-use and residential, then I would support a new stop here. Unfortunately, they're not going to do that, so I don't support a stop.

As PKDickman noted, between Lake and 16th the entire Pink Line is surrounded by large-scale institutions that don't have a fine-grained land use and are all way too reliant on cars and parking.

[PKDickman]

If the IMD fills out the southern part of the campus and adds a couple tree thousand commuting workers, it'll make sense to add a stop at Roosevelt. The then, it's a waste of money.
It's also a fallacy to imagine a new station will drive new development.
There are 145 L stations and serious TOD growth clusters around, maybe, a dozen. The majority of them are surrounded by blight.
Transit doesn't attract development, high rents do.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

If the IMD fills out the southern part of the campus and adds a couple tree thousand commuting workers, it'll make sense to add a stop at Roosevelt. The then, it's a waste of money.
It's also a fallacy to imagine a new station will drive new development.
There are 145 L stations and serious TOD growth clusters around, maybe, a dozen. The majority of them are surrounded by blight.
Transit doesn't attract development, high rents do.

Purely selfishly, if there was a Pink Line station between Roosevelt and 13th I'd get a Costco membership. I had one one year and just never went there because the only efficient way for me to get there was via car. I'm pretty sure if there were an 'L' station there I'd use it for that.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by emathias

Purely selfishly, if there was a Pink Line station between Roosevelt and 13th I'd get a Costco membership. I had one one year and just never went there because the only efficient way for me to get there was via car. I'm pretty sure if there were an 'L' station there I'd use it for that.

Not to get too OT, but I'm not sure how you could even shop at Costco without a car. There's a reason they haven't reformatted their stores in Chicago to a more urban template. Most things they sell are in large quantities, and incredibly bulky/heavy.

You'd have to schlep all that stuff 2-3 blocks through the back side of their parking lot, and then climb up to an elevated platform.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Not to get too OT, but I'm not sure how you could even shop at Costco without a car. There's a reason they haven't reformatted their stores in Chicago to a more urban template. Most things they sell are in large quantities, and incredibly bulky/heavy.

You'd have to schlep all that stuff 2-3 blocks through the back side of their parking lot, and then climb up to an elevated platform.

That's how I do the vast majority of my shopping. You might be surprised at how much I manage to haul from the Target at Division/Larrabbee to my home near Wells/Huron using a Divvy bike.

[K 22]

Originally Posted by emathias

That's how I do the vast majority of my shopping. You might be surprised at how much I manage to haul from the Target at Division/Larrabbee to my home near Wells/Huron using a Divvy bike.

You also have the benefit of not having to deal with any hills.

Bikeshare + hills = no fun.

[wchicity]

Anyone know of the status of the Red Line south extension?

[Mr Downtown]

^Utterly pointless and therefore dead, except as a cynical political maneuver.

[ardecila]

I don't agree that it's utterly pointless, although there are better ways to improve transit in this area.

But yes, there's little or no money available for transit expansions, and currently no powerful politicians are willing to go out and crusade for another $1.5bn to spend on this.

Rahm essentially admitted that the Red Line Extension was dead when he launched the new 95th St renovation seemingly out of nowhere. That project makes no sense if the Red Line is going to get extended; the stated purpose is to improve bus transfers, but why build a hugely expensive new transfer facility over the Dan Ryan if all those buses are just gonna get rerouted to the new Red Line stations in Roseland? But with the new 95th St station, Rahm has a big flashy project to point to, one that improves the transit experience for 50,000 south side commuters.

With the new station design at 95th, I wouldn't be surprised if 95th becomes a Toronto-style station with fare-paid zones and free bus-rail transfers. At least from a financial standpoint, that would be the same as a Red Line extension since Roseland and West Pullman commuters would no longer have to pay a transfer.

[aaron38]

Question for the group.
For a friend going from Palatine to Logan Square by train, is it better to transfer to the blue line at Jefferson Park or Irving Park? I realize Irving is closer, but which transfer is easiest?
She took a $13 Uber to Ogilvie today, trying to spare her that going back.
Thanks