Cities with nice culture/universities etc that also offer cheap housing & living cos

[Binour]

In this ranking of Best Student Cities 2022 in the world, the first USA city on the list is Boston, which ranks 9th, equal with Montréal, Québec (same score)

https://www.topuniversities.com/city-rankings/2022

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ Cali's public university system is simply amazing.

The alpha schools are of course well known as some of the best public universities on the planet, but even the beta and gamma level schools are still "good" schools. And there's so damn many of them, collectively the system enrolls hundreds of thousands of students, and apparently at manageable tuition rates.

As i said earlier, it's the envy of the world.

40 million people

[craigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

40 million people

California's excellent public college/university system is the product of priorities, policy, and planning.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by Binour

In this ranking of Best Student Cities 2022 in the world, the first USA city on the list is Boston, which ranks 9th, equal with Montréal, Québec (same score)

https://www.topuniversities.com/city-rankings/2022

What a joke, that list

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by craigs

California's excellent public college/university system is the product of priorities, policy, and planning.

I'm not super familiar with Arizona, but I've always wondered how the state gets by with having only 3 public four-year universities. Granted the U of A, ASU and NAU are all huge, and there are no doubt satellite campuses, but still that seems like a small number of state universities for a state that now has over 7 million people. Add to that the fact that none of these universities are of extremely recent vintage. Arizona has exploded in population in the last 30 years without the addition of any new 4-year public schools. If it were like California, there would be a University of Arizona at Phoenix and a Central Arizona University at Prescott.

Back to California, the commitment to higher education was really an artifact of the post war period continuing into the 1970s. The state really stopped putting much of a priority on the state university systems once the baby boomers got their college educations. The period from 2003 to 2010 was particularly bad for California higher education. Tuition skyrocketed because the state took a meat cleaver to budget allocations. UCs, especially the most prestigious ones, now get an increasingly small portion of their revenues from the state. It's almost to the point that calling some of these schools "state supported" seems like a misnomer.

[Binour]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

What a joke, that list

If you think so, then laugh.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by FromSD

I'm not super familiar with Arizona, but I've always wondered how the state gets by with having only 3 public four-year universities. Granted the U of A, ASU and NAU are all huge, and there are no doubt satellite campuses, but still that seems like a small number of state universities for a state that now has over 7 million people. Add to that the fact that none of these universities are of extremely recent vintage. Arizona has exploded in population in the last 30 years without the addition of any new 4-year public schools. If it were like California, there would be a University of Arizona at Phoenix and a Central Arizona University at Prescott.

Back to California, the commitment to higher education was really an artifact of the post war period continuing into the 1970s. The state really stopped putting much of a priority on the state university systems once the baby boomers got their college educations. The period from 2003 to 2010 was particularly bad for California higher education. Tuition skyrocketed because the state took a meat cleaver to budget allocations. UCs, especially the most prestigious ones, now get an increasingly small portion of their revenues from the state. It's almost to the point that calling some of these schools "state supported" seems like a misnomer.

Retirees don't need no stinking education.

But yeah, strange that e.g. Yuma has no public 4-year university.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by craigs

California's excellent public college/university system is the product of priorities, policy, and planning.

Absolutely, and 40 million people.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Absolutely, and 40 million people.

How so?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by homebucket

How so?

I believe that his point is if you're the largest state in the country, you're bound to have a pretty robust system of state universities.

California also benefitted by booming during the era where state university expansion was at its apex, and having a relatively weak system of private universities (other than Stanford) which meant the public system could hoover up much of the first tranche of mass college attendance in the late 1960s.

It was also dirt cheap back then, even by the standards of the time. I believe in-state tuition was zero for a long period.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I believe that his point is if you're the largest state in the country, you're bound to have a pretty robust system of state universities.

I understand that's the link he's attempting to make, but how does having a large population guarantee a strong university system?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I understand that's the link he's attempting to make, but how does having a large population guarantee a strong university system?

If you have 40 million people, there are likely 500,000 to 1,000,000 HS grads a year. Even presuming that a fair amount of the top students get siphoned out of state or into private universities, there's still more than enough to comprise the student bodies of a number of major universities, which will result in great metrics, and a top-ranked school.

Add to this also that just having such a large tax base gives California the resources to do things that a smaller state cannot.

[Crawford]

I think it was a forgone conclusion that the UCs would be strong. The Western half of the nation was mostly empty until the postwar years, and had almost no universities of note. Then there was a huge population/wealth explosion, mostly led by knowledge industries. There were few legacy institutions, so they were built.

And CA's population is high(er) income, more educated, more professionally employed, and more heavily Asian than U.S. norms, so you're gonna see good universities.

You see the same thing in TX, FL and AZ in more recent years. The state institutions have risen up the rankings. Probably less to do with good public policy and more to do with increasing selectivity as the population has risen. It makes sense that (say) Florida would have outperformed (say) Ohio in the last few decades, as selectivity is largely a function of local K-12 student population trends.

There are a few schools, the Harvards and Stanfords of the world, where local demographic trends are largely irrelevant, bc their draw is national and global. But they're very relevant for most schools.

And demographic trends would be more relevant in the higher growth states, bc they tend to have fewer private or legacy institutions. Over the last 50 years, it was harder for (say) UConn to be highly selective compared to (say) UCSD, bc UConn has a billion competing institutions in proximity, and had flat local student population trends.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And demographic trends would be more relevant in the higher growth states, bc they tend to have fewer private or legacy institutions. Over the last 50 years, it was harder for (say) UConn to be highly selective compared to (say) UCSD, bc UConn has a billion competing institutions in proximity, and had flat local student population trends.

Yeah, there's a huge and growing crisis in higher-education which is spawned by the decline in numbers of college-age students. There's just way fewer zoomers than millennials, and it's only going to get worse. Particularly given there's also been a downturn in the number of international students post-COVID, there's nowhere for many of these institutions to go but down - and it's almost entirely concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, due to that being where the number of 18-year olds is falling most rapidly.

So far, it's really only smaller private colleges which have closed, although enrollment drops at second-tier state university systems are catastrophic enough they are also getting scaled back/merged.

[pj3000]

eschaton and Crawford both stated it better than I could have stated it.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by eschaton

If you have 40 million people... will result in great metrics, and a top-ranked school.

You're just repeating the same thing, and in basically the same words.

Originally Posted by eschaton

Add to this also that just having such a large tax base gives California the resources to do things that a smaller state cannot.

This is a more acceptable explanation as to how having a lot of people can result in an excellent school system.

But mainly, the population theory just doesn't carry much weight. Otherwise, Texas and Florida would also have a great and expansive public university systems. Remember, CA only had 10.5 million people back in 1950 and 15.7 million in 1960 when a lot of these schools were established. You can't have good students without the schools and policies and emphasis on higher education.

[homebucket]

The top public universities in the US:

1. University of California, Berkeley
1. University of California, Los Angeles
3. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
3. University of Virginia
5. University of Florida
5. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
7. University of California, Santa Barbara
8. University of California, Irvine
8. University of California, San Diego
10. University of California, Davis
10. University of Texas at Austin
10. University of Wisconsin--Madison

Source: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...ies/top-public

6 of the top 12 public universities are in California. Combine the state populations of Michigan, Virginia, Florida, North Carolina, Texas, and Wisconsin, and you get 85.7 million. By the population theory, California should only have half the top universities of these states combined. And Texas and Florida should have 3 or 4 universities each on this list.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah, there's a huge and growing crisis in higher-education which is spawned by the decline in numbers of college-age students. There's just way few zoomers than millennials, and it's only going to get worse. Particularly given there's also been a downturn in the number of international students post-COVID, there's nowhere for many of these institutions to go but down - and it's almost entirely concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, due to that being where the number of 18-year olds is falling most rapidly.

So far, it's really only smaller private colleges which have closed, although enrollment drops at second-tier state university systems are catastrophic enough they are also getting scaled back/merged.

Yeah, the small, nonelite privates are mostly affected at this point, and those are mostly in the Northeast and Midwest. There will be a lot of mergers and closures in the coming years. Also, I suspect the intl. student counts will increase once Covid completely passes. There's nowhere else to turn.

There are all these tiny colleges in Ohio, PA, Upstate NY, Western Mass and the like. Often anchors of quaint small towns. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

In Michigan, every single state institution, bar Michigan and Michigan State (the flagship schools, Michigan with high selectivity and global draw, MSU less so but still a draw) has had major enrollment drops. I could see a few closures/mergers. I know Central Michigan and Eastern Michigan already closed some dorms and scaled back liberal arts programs.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by homebucket

6 of the top 12 public universities are in California. Combine the state populations of Michigan, Virginia, Florida, North Carolina, Texas, and Wisconsin, and you get 85.7 million. By the population theory, California should only have half the top universities of these states combined. And Texas and Florida should have 3 or 4 universities each on this list.

This doesn't happen overnight. TX and FL institutions are rising in quality. UT and A&M and UF are pretty prestigious and selective. These places were backwaters in 1970, when CA was established as an economic dynamo.

And there are other factors at play. FL has the smallest K-12 student population in the U.S. (old person state). TX has the highest or second highest youth poverty rate in the U.S. (tons of Latinos probably not attending universities). TX and FL are also big feeder states to private schools in the East. CA has a gigantic Asian K-12 population. Also, this is just a guess, but deep blue CA probably funds higher ed better than red TX and FL.

Also, for schools with long-established global reputations, like Berkeley or Michigan, the local demographics are probably irrelevant. It matters more for emergent instructions, like UC Irvine and the like. Irvine is mostly in-state and mostly Asian, so it seems that local demographics matter.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, the small, nonelite privates are mostly affected at this point, and those are mostly in the Northeast and Midwest. There will be a lot of mergers and closures in the coming years. Also, I suspect the intl. student counts will increase once Covid completely passes. There's nowhere else to turn.

I don't even know who the hell wants to go to these places. I mean, when I was in HS Marlboro College tried to recruit me, which is one of those small non-selective private colleges. But even back then, I just didn't understand who the hell would want to go to a small college in a town of less than 2,000 which even lacked a downtown area. Like...what if you don't find anyone you want to be friends with in the tiny freshman class. What if you don't click with any of the professors.

I can understand why parents wanted to send their kids off to these isolated areas in the middle of nowhere, back when college students were still minors and they figured there was less chance to get into trouble. But few people would willingly choose to go to school in a place like that.

Originally Posted by Crawford

In Michigan, every single state institution, bar Michigan and Michigan State (the flagship schools, Michigan with high selectivity and global draw, MSU less so but still a draw) has had major enrollment drops. I could see a few closures/mergers. I know Central Michigan and Eastern Michigan already closed some dorms and scaled back liberal arts programs.

Presuming that the states manage the systems rationally, the result should be that the flagship universities get a bit less selective, and take a tranche of students who would have formerly gone to the regional universities go to the flagship instead.