Air conditioning raising controversy

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

While air conditioning is certainly nice, I don't understand why people set the temperatures so low. It doesn't need to be fucking freezing to be comfortable.

Yeah. I'm comfy at like 80F, but my brother sets his to 68F. I'm always freezing my butt off over there. Same at my sister's. Just because it's 100F outside doesn't mean you need a 30+ degree difference in the house. Now, it's actually different in the winter. 30F warmer inside wouldn't work if the temperature outside was in the single digits or even 20F. Waking up to 50F in the house sounds like hell.

My main gripe with air conditioning is the stale artificial atmosphere it creates. I actually do love sticking my face in front of the vents. The feeling of the air and the smell is mesmerizing, but otherwise, I hate having to run it. I prefer sleeping with the windows open and hearing the birds in the morning and listening to the crickets at night or hearing the rain. I hate how loud and artificial air conditioning sounds. I turn ours off every chance I can get, even in the summer on those rare cool dry nights.

[10023]

^ 68F is a comfortable temperature year round. Maybe 70F but certainly not warmer than that. I agree that it shouldn’t be warmer indoors in the winter than summer - that makes no sense.

But I wouldn’t stay in a house that was 80F. That’s only tolerable outdoors with a breeze. And in my experience, Texas doesn’t get nearly cool enough at night most of the year to keep windows open.

[GlassCity]

It all has to do with what you're used to. I read an article on CBC not too long ago that described changes in Canada's heat warning system. It's now regionalized, so in Toronto they do a heat warning at 40C (104F), while in Vancouver they do it at 29C (84.2F). This was backed up by researchers who said that if you're used to a Vancouver climate, an elderly person really could die from the heat at 29C. Meanwhile, on the Canadian forums, you see Torotonians complaining when it's below 30C in the summer.

We all have anecdotes of going to Mexico when it'll be 20C (68F) out and locals are wearing jackets. I also saw a documentary when Inuit in Canada's Arctic were building an igloo with no gloves.

Long post mainly to say that it makes sense for a Texan to want 80F inside, and for a Londoner/Northern US person to prefer 68F. Having grown up in Vancouver my whole life, I definitely fall into the latter camp. I start bitching about the heat just past that 20C/68F myself.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

It all has to do with what you're used to. I read an article on CBC not too long ago that described changes in Canada's heat warning system. It's now regionalized, so in Toronto they do a heat warning at 40C (104F), while in Vancouver they do it at 29C (84.2F). This was backed up by researchers who said that if you're used to a Vancouver climate, an elderly person really could die from the heat at 29C. Meanwhile, on the Canadian forums, you see Torotonians complaining when it's below 30C in the summer.

We all have anecdotes of going to Mexico when it'll be 20C (68F) out and locals are wearing jackets. I also saw a documentary when Inuit in Canada's Arctic were building an igloo with no gloves.

Long post mainly to say that it makes sense for a Texan to want 80F inside, and for a Londoner/Northern US person to prefer 68F. Having grown up in Vancouver my whole life, I definitely fall into the latter camp. I start bitching about the heat just past that 20C/68F myself.

It only takes a few weeks to adjust. I am someone who regularly moves between coastal northern CAS where 70F is the borderline of "hot" and it's humid, being on the ocean, and the Arizona desert where 105F is not unusual and it's dry as a bone. Generally by the time I'm in either place for a month, it seems comfortable.

And I'm one of these "elderly persons" everyone keeps talking about.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

It only takes a few weeks to adjust. I am someone who regularly moves between coastal northern CAS where 70F is the borderline of "hot" and it's humid, being on the ocean, and the Arizona desert where 105F is not unusual and it's dry as a bone. Generally by the time I'm in either place for a month, it seems comfortable.

And I'm one of these "elderly persons" everyone keeps talking about.

You think it would only take a few weeks to adjust? You'll get more comfortable, sure, but the Mexicans in Puerto Vallarta wearing coats while I was in shorts and a t-shirt at 68F would probably take much much longer to get to my level of comfort at that temperature.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Mousquet, where or what does France do with all of the nuclear waste?

I don't really know, not involved in nuclear engineering.

I heard from the local media, and from environmentalists that some would be supposedly recycled by the militrary industry, to produce weapons.

The rest of it must be buried in some places kept confidential. Otherwise green activists would merely block any site of that dirty type.

Notice that some (not all, but some) so-called environmentalists are only cynical commies trying to overthrow the current authorities for their own benefit.
Those people are dangerous. Their policy roughly consists in impoverishing everyone around them, so they can take control of the government and of the economy more easily.
That's evil.

But genuine environmentalists are utterly interesting. They don't oppose any free market. They just suggest to use some regulated, still widely free market economy to enforce clean techs.
That's clearly the right thing to do.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

We all have anecdotes of going to Mexico when it'll be 20C (68F) out and locals are wearing jackets. I also saw a documentary when Inuit in Canada's Arctic were building an igloo with no gloves.

68 in the high desert with a dew point of 5 degrees will feel cold, especially if there is a breeze and in the shade or at dusk.

68 with a dew point of 63 will feel much more comfortable and warm in the sun.
-----
Currently it is 79.7F inside and 70 outside. Slept like a rock with a comforter on.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

68 in the high desert with a dew point of 5 degrees will feel cold, especially if there is a breeze and in the shade or at dusk.

68 with a dew point of 63 will feel much more comfortable and warm in the sun.
-----
Currently it is 79.7F inside and 70 outside. Slept like a rock with a comforter on.

Maybe, but if we're in the same conditions and wearing different clothes, that's biological.

And anyway, my point isn't really about whether you can get used to temperatures or not. Just when you ARE used to warmer/cooler temperatures, you'll adjust your AC accordingly. I don't think you can acclimatize yourself exclusively through indoor climate control.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

My main gripe with air conditioning is the stale artificial atmosphere it creates. I actually do love sticking my face in front of the vents. The feeling of the air and the smell is mesmerizing, but otherwise, I hate having to run it. I prefer sleeping with the windows open and hearing the birds in the morning and listening to the crickets at night or hearing the rain. I hate how loud and artificial air conditioning sounds. I turn ours off every chance I can get, even in the summer on those rare cool dry nights.

My feelings also.

[Doug]

To save energy, I don't use AC or heat at home and rely entirely on solar for hot water. In Perth, summer days can exceed 40C maybe 20 days per year and are between 30 and 40 maybe 90 days per year, but humidity is generally low. You learn to adapt by, for example closing the blinds during the day, opening windows as soon as they are no longer in the sun, dressing lightly and spending as much time as possible outdoors. In the winter, lows rarely dip below about 8C. The solar water heater doesn't work well in the winter, but even the cold tap water in Perth never falls below about 20C. Besides saving money, shunning AC is great for avoiding colds and flus and encouraging outdoor activities. My workplace only cools to 24C to save money and has relaxed dress codes to allow people to dress for the heat.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Doug

To save energy, I don't use AC or heat at home and rely entirely on solar for hot water. In Perth, summer days can exceed 40C maybe 20 days per year and are between 30 and 40 maybe 90 days per year, but humidity is generally low. You learn to adapt by, for example closing the blinds during the day, opening windows as soon as they are no longer in the sun, dressing lightly and spending as much time as possible outdoors. In the winter, lows rarely dip below about 8C. The solar water heater doesn't work well in the winter, but even the cold tap water in Perth never falls below about 20C. Besides saving money, shunning AC is great for avoiding colds and flus and encouraging outdoor activities. My workplace only cools to 24C to save money and has relaxed dress codes to allow people to dress for the heat.

Yes, there are so many variables to contrast our opinions and thoughts on this subject.

In Montreal, the winter weather is brutal for two to three months of the year and cold for 2 to 3 other months. There are periods of extreme cold which means that the air is dry, but days where the temperature rises and the dampness makes the cold feel worse. As you mention about the cold water, in January here, the water is extremely cold, and in the summertime it is barely cool in June, July and August.

I put the AC on in my car, and at work when it is available on site, which it has been recently pretty much everywhere.I work at different studios or film locations and often the latter will have added portable systems for the duration of pre-production and filming schedules. I work in shorts and t-shirt the whole summer, I couldn’t stand working in pants like some colleagues do.

The heat here has become pretty intense this year, and the humidity in high summer is what makes it more difficult to bear. I don’t have the AC at home but we all have fans in our bedrooms and I actually like the feel of air instead of cold air throughout. I may be moving to a house in the Eastern Townships near the Vermont border soon if I sell my present house, though. There, the AC and most of the heat will be generated with the Heat pump, and some with space heaters and radiant heat in the floors. The owner there puts the AC at a nice, comfortable setting, not too cold.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

You think it would only take a few weeks to adjust? You'll get more comfortable, sure, but the Mexicans in Puerto Vallarta wearing coats while I was in shorts and a t-shirt at 68F would probably take much much longer to get to my level of comfort at that temperature.

San Franciscans wear shorts all the time at 68F and I go from that weather to closeo to 100F in Tucson in early fall. Nobody's is wearing coats then but I assure you they would be at 68F and are when the temps fall that low later in the winter. I fall somewhere in between: I don't wear shorts at 68F but I don't wear a coat either--if the wind is blowing sometimes a cotton hoodie.

But my point is if I were to go from the 68F climate directly to the 100+F climate I would be very uncomfortable no matter what I wore whereas just a few weeks later I'm not near as uncomfortable. I'm "acclimated".

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

San Franciscans wear shorts all the time at 68F and I go from that weather to closeo to 100F in Tucson in early fall. Nobody's is wearing coats then but I assure you they would be at 68F and are when the temps fall that low later in the winter. I fall somewhere in between: I don't wear shorts at 68F but I don't wear a coat either--if the wind is blowing sometimes a cotton hoodie.

But my point is if I were to go from the 68F climate directly to the 100+F climate I would be very uncomfortable no matter what I wore whereas just a few weeks later I'm not near as uncomfortable. I'm "acclimated".

Yeah you are right there. But I think I pulled us away from my original point that if you live in a cooler average climate year round, you'll probably set your AC cooler in the summer too, while if you live in a warmer climate you'll set it higher. Same with winter heating.

I'm just hypothesizing though; I've always lived in a cool climate. I definitely hate the heat less now than I did in June, but if I had air conditioning in my apartment I'm pretty sure it'd still be well below 80F.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Doug

To save energy, I don't use AC or heat at home and rely entirely on solar for hot water. In Perth, summer days can exceed 40C maybe 20 days per year and are between 30 and 40 maybe 90 days per year, but humidity is generally low. You learn to adapt by, for example closing the blinds during the day, opening windows as soon as they are no longer in the sun, dressing lightly and spending as much time as possible outdoors. In the winter, lows rarely dip below about 8C. The solar water heater doesn't work well in the winter, but even the cold tap water in Perth never falls below about 20C. Besides saving money, shunning AC is great for avoiding colds and flus and encouraging outdoor activities. My workplace only cools to 24C to save money and has relaxed dress codes to allow people to dress for the heat.

I basically do the same thing. I shut east facing blinds in the morning, close west facing blinds in the afternoon. Keep the windows open to get a cross breeze and ventilation. Use LED bulbs everywhere. Installed low-flow faucet heads. I haven't used AC or heat in many years. I've tracked the indoor temperature range over the years and it's consistently between 63-82. Today is a HOT day and it's 80.6 inside.

With properly placed ceiling fans, you don't even notice the heat and will need a comforter, blanket, duvet - whatever at night.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Installed low-flow faucet heads.

In took the flow restrictors out of all my faucets. I don't want to take all day to fill a pot to make pasta and if there's one thing I deserve in life it's a good shower. I'd give up air conditioning before I'd accept some anemic dribbly shower head.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

In took the flow restrictors out of all my faucets. I don't want to take all day to fill a pot to make pasta and if there's one thing I deserve in life it's a good shower. I'd give up air conditioning before I'd accept some anemic dribbly shower head.

That device wouldn't be too popular in my neck of the woods. Water usage is a topic here,
but few consumers would consider restricting at the faucet.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

In took the flow restrictors out of all my faucets. I don't want to take all day to fill a pot to make pasta and if there's one thing I deserve in life it's a good shower. I'd give up air conditioning before I'd accept some anemic dribbly shower head.

The only low-flow fixture that bugs me is the kitchen sink, because like you said, it takes forever to fill a pot, French press, bucket - whatever. No complaints with my shower head.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by 10023

But I wouldn’t stay in a house that was 80F. That’s only tolerable outdoors with a breeze. And in my experience, Texas doesn’t get nearly cool enough at night most of the year to keep windows open.

It's all about what you're used to. It definitely gets cool enough here to have the windows open, even in the summer. I was even considering it last week when our low got down into the mid 60s. The only reason I didn't was I need to fix my window screen, otherwise, I would have. That was a fluke because it's been warmer since then. It's the humidity that kills the mood. Even cool temps with humidity can suck. It's been dry here the last several weeks. Typically, late July through August is dry for us. Yes, it's hot during the day, but the humidity is low so you barely feel it. There are no "cookies sticking to the pan" phenomenon, and the lows at night are comfy with the low humidity. It really is the desert like air effect, though, I would never suggest Austin was in a desert climate.

Anyway, I hate cold weather. I'm dreading it coming back. Our summers are filled with bright long sunny days, but with some puffy clouds, little rain, and warmth, and eventually toward the end of summer, little humidity. The nights here in the summer are usually cloudless starry and warm to cool with a breeze. Winters for us are usually cool to cold, dark and rainy. A lot of winter nights it'll be foggy here even well into the day sometimes. I actually love fog, but I hate the nuisance that rain can be sometimes. If it's going to rain, I'd rather have a kickass thunderstorm over that nuisance misting rain that makes it just annoying enough that you don't want to be out in it if you have things to do outside. I'm much happier when the temp is 90 to 100F than 50 to 60F. What can I say, I'm a Texan.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by niwell

The compromise is using AC but not cooling the inside to a ridiculous level. I was just in Chicago and when it was maybe 28C and humid they cool bars to like, 17C. That's ridiculous - it could be 22 or 23 and still feel fine. New Orleans was even worse - 37C outside and they manage to cool bars with open windows! Energy costs in Ontario are just too much to do that.

I've heard Hong Kong takes this to an even worse level. The density of air conditioning has raised the already oppressive temperatures.

I set my A/C to 76f most of the time, which is just over 24c. It's in the southern part of my condo, though, so I think the temp in the bedrooms that don't have a Southern exposure is probably closer to 20c. I also don't really like it when it's super-air-conditioned and almost cold. When I have Airbnb guests from the Mediterranean sometimes they complain that it's too cold, but I refuse to ever set the thermostat above 78f (25.5c) because it gets uncomfortable for me indoors when it's above that

[SLO]

I've always said the growth of the sunbelt is tied to the implementation of good air conditioning.
In Texas the homes we did were super insulated with spray foam insulation in the walls and on the roof assembly. Not on the attic floor, a much better way to go. We saved people 50-70% vs traditional fiberglass insulation techniques.
In California in the coastal areas that are moderate, often times air conditioning is optional and not present in older homes. Inland the AC is implemented, but I've noticed not to the extent of what we did in Texas.