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  #6681  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 6:56 AM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is online now
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
Let's be honest. Not a single person is gonna get off their flight, luggage in tow, and go straight to an NFL game. I don't think it matters that this isn't connecting directly to LAX, as nice as it would be on paper.
There are a lot of hotel rooms situated alongside the LAX people mover, with plenty of room to build more, so it's not just conceivable but quite likely that many people would choose to stay at those hotels.

But the more likely use case is LAX and LAX-related workers using their employee parking for events at Sofi and the other venues.

The "Downtown" Inglewood light rail station is pathetic. It is situated opposite a Payless Shoes strip mall where there no real potential for a solid TOD. The only people mover passengers at this station will be transfers from the new but sad Crenshaw Line. The green line is equally sad but the combined ridership of the two lines at LAX is D-level instead of an F.
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  #6682  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 8:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The "Downtown" Inglewood light rail station is pathetic. It is situated opposite a Payless Shoes strip mall where there no real potential for a solid TOD. The only people mover passengers at this station will be transfers from the new but sad Crenshaw Line. The green line is equally sad but the combined ridership of the two lines at LAX is D-level instead of an F.
I'm guessing that strip mall will be developed at some point, similar to that new development at Florence and Market. It doesn't look like there's much there of historical significance that would be worth saving.

But other than the station location not being ideal, it's also inaccessible from the Northern half of the station. People coming from the North have to walk all the way around La Brea or Centinela and enter from the Florence side. Typically, a station should be accessible from either side of the tracks.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/g3Q8xoyfbPkJctCt6
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  #6683  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 8:27 AM
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Instead, this thing is going to require 3+ train changes for some potential users. Nobody's going to do that outside the context of The Olympics.
Speaking of the Olympics, it looks like this project is not going to be finished by then after all.

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The commitment of new federal funding adds to the roughly $873 million already raised for the project, but falls short of the $1.2 billion that Inglewood officials had hoped to receive. The project has a more than $2 billion price tag, leaving a funding gap that must be closed to obtain the grant award.

The City of Inglewood has partnered with Metro on a joint powers authority which will be responsible for overseeing the design, construction, financing, operations, and maintenance of the people mover. Under that arrangement, it is expected that full funding will be secured during 2024, which would allow the people mover to open for revenue service in 2030, according to FTA documents. That will provide an easier connection to the K Line roughly one mile north of SoFi Stadium, but after the 2028 Olympics that had previously been set as a deadline for project delivery.
https://la.urbanize.city/post/biden-...d-people-mover
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  #6684  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
There are a lot of hotel rooms situated alongside the LAX people mover, with plenty of room to build more, so it's not just conceivable but quite likely that many people would choose to stay at those hotels.

But the more likely use case is LAX and LAX-related workers using their employee parking for events at Sofi and the other venues.

The "Downtown" Inglewood light rail station is pathetic. It is situated opposite a Payless Shoes strip mall where there no real potential for a solid TOD. The only people mover passengers at this station will be transfers from the new but sad Crenshaw Line. The green line is equally sad but the combined ridership of the two lines at LAX is D-level instead of an F.
A strip mall anchored by Payless Shoes would be a prime candidate for redevelopment since Payless no longer has any stores. I think that you may mean the mall where the IPM will end. I wouldn't be surprised to see TOD there but they haven't announced anything afaik.

The rest of the area is very underutilized and will see lots of new development/TOD if the people mover breaks ground. It will make so much sense to stay at a hotel there if you're going to an event and flying out of LAX. A couple of new buildings have already gone up but my guess is that it will be unrecognizable in 10 years. It's likely all going to be redeveloped.
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  #6685  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 5:46 PM
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When discussing the LAX station it may be important to keep in mind that Sepulveda line phase 2 from the E line to LAX will also use this station (actually a new station next to it). Yeah that's 2+ decades out but maybe it gets accelerated. Either way, this will be a very significant transfer station in the future.

Also, as a former frequent traveler I don't stress about having to take a train to your terminal. It's hardly any different* than having to take a train to your gate after going through security, which has become very common now. I don't see how one train is problematic while the other isn't. DFW, DIA, and ATL have train stations inside the airport but you have to take a second train anyway.
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  #6686  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 6:28 PM
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I nearly creamed my pants when I saw this (hehe not really)!

Here's a new subway train being tested, and you can clearly see the gangway between the cars. Yeah, I know that some other cities' heavy rail transit systems have gangways, but this will be the first for LA's subway.

I can't wait until the old subway cars are replaced with these:
Video Link
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  #6687  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I nearly creamed my pants when I saw this (hehe not really)!

Here's a new subway train being tested, and you can clearly see the gangway between the cars. Yeah, I know that some other cities' heavy rail transit systems have gangways, but this will be the first for LA's subway.

I can't wait until the old subway cars are replaced with these:
Video Link
They’ll only be partially replaced with these. Metro has been so unhappy with CRCC that they decided not to exercise the options and will only receive the 64 car base order. Like nearly everything else with metro, ordering new cars has been a disaster.
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  #6688  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 7:26 PM
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I'm totally unconvinced that CRRC can make a decent product. Probably a good thing they aren't getting more. When they are underbidding by so much it's hard for public agencies to pass up - but the cost savings have to come from somewhere. Obviously too bad Budd isn't still around but short of that Metro should solicit RFP from Stadler, Siemens, Hitachi and Alstom.
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  #6689  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 8:30 PM
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What are the problems with the CRCCs?

I was really looking forward to the new trains, the 30+ year-old trains on the B/D lines are disgusting. They totally need to be replaced.
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  #6690  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 8:40 PM
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  #6691  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
What are the problems with the CRCCs?

I was really looking forward to the new trains, the 30+ year-old trains on the B/D lines are disgusting. They totally need to be replaced.
Low quality, not meeting specifications and delays.

https://www.google.com/search?q=crrc...t=gws-wiz-serp
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  #6692  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 10:58 PM
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I'm totally unconvinced that CRRC can make a decent product. Probably a good thing they aren't getting more. When they are underbidding by so much it's hard for public agencies to pass up - but the cost savings have to come from somewhere. Obviously too bad Budd isn't still around but short of that Metro should solicit RFP from Stadler, Siemens, Hitachi and Alstom.
Like i said, it's been a disaster. Metro went out for bid last year and received bids from Hitachi, Stadler, and Hyundai Rotem. They were about to recommend that the contract go to Hyundai when Stadler protested the bid results and claimed (with some merit) that the scores were calculated wrong. Stadler and Hyundai scores were very close and we're still waiting to see who wins.

It's likely going to be too late to get enough new cars for the full D line extension that opens in 4 years so metro will have to keep the existing cars longer than expected. They decided against giving them an overhaul in favor of ordering new train sets, so we can probably expect increasing malfunctions.
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  #6693  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2024, 11:41 PM
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Are the HR4000s similar in design and components to the MBTA’s CRRCs? There could be some hope that CRRC has improved its quality since 2019 when they first entered service on the Orange Line. Perhaps a forumer from Boston that rides that line on a frequent basis could share their firsthand experience.

Quote:
Eng told the meeting that CRRC is still working on a revised schedule. He also said that, after significant effort by CRRC and the MBTA, the quality of the cars coming out of the Springfield plant has improved to the point that the CRRC cars in operation are exceeding expectatons. Currently, they are averaging about 114,000 miles between failures, beating the 90,000 miles required by contract.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-revi...a-subway-cars/
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  #6694  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
What are the problems with the CRCCs?
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  #6695  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 3:50 PM
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Yonah Freemark has more criticism of the Inglewood connector project, noting the absurdly high cost and low ridership.

https://nitter.net/yfreemark/status/...194396733776#m
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  #6696  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 4:21 PM
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just cancel it!
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  #6697  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 6:36 PM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
Let's be honest. Not a single person is gonna get off their flight, luggage in tow, and go straight to an NFL game. I don't think it matters that this isn't connecting directly to LAX, as nice as it would be on paper.
I agree, but connecting the LAX people mover and the Inglewood People mover would make it much easier for people to fly into LAX then take the people mover directly to their hotel in the stadium district. Now that there are two next-generation stadiums and one music venue all clustered there, there should be a focus on creating a true mixed-use hub there with lots of hotels, retail/restaurant space, and residential. I also think having people movers that connect to two rail stations would be beneficial from a crowding perspective. Maybe it can still be done in the future (depending on which technology the Inglewood People Mover goes with).
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  #6698  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 7:30 PM
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People seem to be forgetting that this Inglewood stadium district also (or will also) have residences. In theory, people who live there would be able to get home from/go to LAX all on public transit.

I think the Inglewood peoplemover is a good thing.
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  #6699  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The "Downtown" Inglewood light rail station is pathetic. It is situated opposite a Payless Shoes strip mall where there no real potential for a solid TOD. The only people mover passengers at this station will be transfers from the new but sad Crenshaw Line. The green line is equally sad but the combined ridership of the two lines at LAX is D-level instead of an F.
The station itself looks quite nice and with regards to location, they had to build it on the existing ROW, right? So I don't know if Metro can be faulted for any of this. In terms of the strip mall... if the highest and best use is TOD than real estate developers will take care of that eventually so long as zoning and regulations don't get in the way.
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  #6700  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2024, 10:59 PM
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Inglewood people mover gets $1-billion commitment from federal officials


The Metro K Line makes its way along Crenshaw Boulevard in Los Angeles. Metro’s K Line will extend light rail from the existing Metro E Line (Expo) at Crenshaw and Exposition boulevards to the Metro C Line. (Mel Melcon/Los Angeles Times)

Rachel Uranga
Los Angeles Times
January 8, 2024

Federal officials have pledged up to $1 billion for an elevated train connecting SoFi Stadium and other venues to the Crenshaw Line, marking a major milestone for a marquee project that could open ahead of the 2028 Olympic Games.

The Federal Transit Administration commitment would finance half of the project’s $2-billion price tag.

To lock down the award, the city of Inglewood and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority must clear several more hurdles, including securing the other half of the money and making substantial progress to prepare the project for construction.

“It’s going to improve the fan experience,” said Inglewood Mayor James Butts, who has championed the project. “Fans, our residents and the employees deserve affordable and efficient transit options. This system will be good for the environment. It will again create jobs.”

Known as the Inglewood Transit Connector, the fully automated three-stop people mover will roll through Inglewood’s downtown and ferry fans to the city’s growing list of entertainment venues, which include the Kia Forum and the soon-to-be opened Inuit Dome. It’s expected to ease traffic during major events.

The city and Metro, which together form the project’s joint powers authority, say they have secured about 85% of the total $2-billion tab, counting the federal commitment. Although that commitment is not finalized, officials say it signals the viability of an ambitious project they aim to open before the 2028 Olympic Games.

“This federal support is a force multiplier on our momentum and an endorsement of all levels of government working together to benefit the public. We will get the next step done,” said Lisa Trifiletti, who is overseeing the project for the authority.

And although officials hope the people mover will be running by 2028, Federal Transit Administration documents show that it isn’t expected to open until 2030 and will cost $33 million a year to operate.

If the connector does open in time for the Olympics, Inglewood, a city of about 104,000, would be center stage, starting with the opening ceremonies at SoFi Stadium. Transit officials plan on creating a car-free Olympics and have been using events at SoFi, including Taylor Swift’s Eras tour, as a testing ground for not only the Olympics but how to deal with changing ridership patterns.

Backers say the elevated people mover and the tourists it brings will also help revitalize downtown Inglewood. But dozens of business will be forced to relocate to make room for it. And transportation experts question whether the people mover, which has increased in price by more than half a billion dollars over the last few years, is worth the cost and will deliver on its promises.

On a busy weekday, hundreds come through the door of Fiesta Martin Bar & Grill at Florence Avenue and Market Street. Esaul Martin, who runs the downtown Inglewood restaurant with his sister, is among those who will be forced to relocate.

“We don’t have a choice in what to do,” he said. The outside patio is teeming on weekends, and he has a steady local clientele.

Though his family owns several restaurants in town, he said, this is the most successful.

“Most people aren’t happy about it,” Martin said about other businesses nearby. “The options that they are giving us doesn’t come close. Either it doesn’t have parking, it’s too small, or the rent is four times this.”

Martin has hired a lawyer. But, he said, no relocation fee can replicate what he has created here. And he worries about his 45 employees.

Butts said change is hard, but the relocation packages are generous.

“This is major progress in the evolution of the city. Things are not going to be the way they are,” he said. “The benefits of this project far outweigh the angst of displacement, because everyone in Inglewood wins.”

Transit experts say the other big winners are people like Rams owner Stan Kroenke.

The $5-billion SoFi Stadium, home to the Rams and Chargers, opened in 2020. It had bypassed the lengthy environmental review process typically required in California, which would have quantified the traffic, pollution and noise that would come with a 70,000-seat stadium. Often, the developer must mitigate those impacts.

Instead, the project was approved six weeks after it was announced.

“There is definitely a good case to be made that at least there should be some financial contribution from the stadium owners,” said Jacob Wasserman, a research project manager at UCLA Institute of Transportation Studies. “It is going to serve the customers there who pay money to go see events and games. All transit serves businesses, and it’s a public service, but I think that this is disproportionately focused on these event venues.”

Butts said providing transportation is the job of municipalities.

The authority estimates that the people mover will have 4 million boardings in 2028 and nearly 8 million by 2078, which Wasserman said is likely overly optimistic.

Environmental studies show regular weekdays will be much quieter, bringing 414 passengers during peak hours and carrying 11,450 riders the hour after games.

Three pre-qualified teams are now preparing bids for the project, and the authority expects to choose one this summer.

Is it worth it?

James Moore, founding director of the USC Transportation Engineering Program, said it probably isn’t. He pointed to the half billion dollars it cost to connect the Oakland Airport to BART, which, he said, ended up having no measurable effect on either airport traffic or BART ridership.

“The bus was doing just fine,” he said. “If the goal is to connect riders from the event generator to the rail line, this is an expensive way to do it.”
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