Rank your MSA's counties by relevance/importance

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, there's a far bigger gap between Santa Clara county and San Francisco county, and I think there's still an argument for San Francisco being considered most important.

Yes but probably not by that much anymore considering amount of economic heft Santa Clara has.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by JManc

Yes but probably not by that much anymore considering amount of economic heft Santa Clara has.

I can see why some people might think that SF is less important than the south bay, but it's not really accurate (and comparing the tiny city-county of SF to the much larger county of Santa Clara is kind of misleading, too). The tech industry is just one part of the Bay's economy, and Santa Clara county isn't the center of the Bay Area's population...the area around SF/Oakland is. Santa Clara county (and the SJ MSA) has the largest chunk of the Bay's tech industry, but SF/the SF MSA has a huge chunk of the tech industry as well, along with the majority of the heavy industry, the finance industry, biotech, almost all of the port infrastructure, most of the government buildings, most of the tourism, most of the national and international name recognition, and most of the residents and commuters. Downtown SF has as much office space as 4-6 downtown SJs combined, depending on how you measure. Just visually, SF appears to be far more important. The bay, and entire region is named after it. The football team based in Santa Clara is named the "San Francisco" 49ers lol. Hard to compete with all that.

As for economic heft, here's GDP, by MSA, which is a better comparison than city vs county:

SF-Oakland = $545 billion

SJ = $384 billion

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Pittsburgh

1. Allegheny
2. Washington
3. Beaver
3. Westmoreland
4. Butler
5. Fayette
6. Armstrong

I'd almost consider Butler #3, or at least #4, considering the growth of Cranberry, Mars, and Zeli. Westmorland might as well be its own thing outside of the munis that border Allegheny County.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by tech12

I can see why some people might think that SF is less important than the south bay, but it's not really accurate (and comparing the tiny city-county of SF to the much larger county of Santa Clara is kind of misleading, too). The tech industry is just one part of the Bay's economy, and Santa Clara county isn't the center of the Bay Area's population...the area around SF/Oakland is. Santa Clara county (and the SJ MSA) has the largest chunk of the Bay's tech industry, but SF/the SF MSA has a huge chunk of the tech industry as well, along with the majority of the heavy industry, the finance industry, biotech, almost all of the port infrastructure, most of the government buildings, most of the tourism, most of the national and international name recognition, and most of the residents and commuters. Downtown SF has as much office space as 4-6 downtown SJs combined, depending on how you measure. Just visually, SF appears to be far more important. The bay, and entire region is named after it. The football team based in Santa Clara is named the "San Francisco" 49ers lol. Hard to compete with all that.

As for economic heft, here's GDP, by MSA, which is a better comparison than city vs county:

SF-Oakland = $545 billion

SJ = $384 billion

Yep. SF is still far and away the most influential and most recognizable county in the Bay Area. SJ/Silicon Valley is nowhere near as diversified in its economy compared to SF, and SF has been doing it for a lot longer.

SF is like the ICE engine, the powerhouse of the region. Old faithful, tried and true. SJ is like the electric motor that assists it and takes the whole car to another level, providing instant torque/economy accelerant in tech with record shattering results. But at the end of the day, the system still revolves around SF as the primary drivetrain.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by tech12

I can see why some people might think that SF is less important than the south bay, but it's not really accurate (and comparing the tiny city-county of SF to the much larger county of Santa Clara is kind of misleading, too). The tech industry is just one part of the Bay's economy, and Santa Clara county isn't the center of the Bay Area's population...the area around SF/Oakland is. Santa Clara county (and the SJ MSA) has the largest chunk of the Bay's tech industry, but SF/the SF MSA has a huge chunk of the tech industry as well, along with the majority of the heavy industry, the finance industry, biotech, almost all of the port infrastructure, most of the government buildings, most of the tourism, most of the national and international name recognition, and most of the residents and commuters. Downtown SF has as much office space as 4-6 downtown SJs combined, depending on how you measure. Just visually, SF appears to be far more important. The bay, and entire region is named after it. The football team based in Santa Clara is named the "San Francisco" 49ers lol. Hard to compete with all that.

As for economic heft, here's GDP, by MSA, which is a better comparison than city vs county:

SF-Oakland = $545 billion

SJ = $384 billion

The SF Bay Area was actually named after the Bay not the city which did not exist when for another hundred or so years and which then was known as Yerba Buena. I think the natural part of Treasure Island still has that name.

And I'm not disputing SF's preeminence of the entire Bay Area (I live on the SF MSA side of the Bay Area) just that the gap between it and SJ is closing. It's not like it was 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. I wonder if that huge building boom in SF had much to do with the tech industry spilling over. Salesforce was started by a guy who made his career in SV.

[homebucket]

Speaking of dynamic duos is there another MSA or urban area that packs a similar 1-2 punch like SF-Santa Clara?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Speaking of dynamic duos is there another MSA or urban area that packs a similar 1-2 punch like SF-Santa Clara?

Dallas-Tarrant (but on a smaller scale)

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Dallas-Tarrant (but on a smaller scale)

Maybe Suffolk and Middlesex as well.

[L41A]

Atlanta Top 5

1. Fulton
2. DeKalb
3. Cobb
4. Gwinnett
5. Clayton

[wwmiv]

Many may think this is an exception, but Manhattan-Brooklyn.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

I'd almost consider Butler #3, or at least #4, considering the growth of Cranberry, Mars, and Zeli. Westmorland might as well be its own thing outside of the munis that border Allegheny County.

Possibly, but I don't think so. To me it's just that it's such a very small portion of Butler County that has any real relevance/importance to the overall MSA, as noted in the thread title.

Both Washington and Beaver counties were vital to the region's history, given that they contain most of the Mon, Chartiers, and Ohio Valley industrial cites/towns. Without them, Pittsburgh doesn't exist as we know it. Those counties are "Pittsburgh" through and through.

I have Westmoreland at #4 for a few reasons: 1) It's the largest "suburban" county in population by far at around 350k 2) It's coal mining fueled the region's steel industry, with numerous old mining and manufacturing towns 2) Contains a small part of the Mon Valley (Monessen), the Yough Valley, and the entire Kiski Valley 3) Its importance as a connection between Pittsburgh and points east is illustrated by its rail lines and existing US highways 22, 30, the PA Turnpike, and I-70.

Butler has never really had too much relevance/importance, or even connection to, the Pittsburgh region at all until the 1980s, after I-79 was built. It was (and mainly still is) rural land. Butler City was the only sizable spot and it was only connected to the Pittsburgh area by a rural state highway Rt. 8, with nothing but farmland in between for the most part. It's very clear just by looking at the patterns and age of development, South Hills & River Valleys vs. North Hills.

Sure, the southwest corner of the county is now developed with Cranberry/Mars/Seven Fields, but that is really just Allegheny County sprawl that pushed over the border around the I-79/Turnpike/US19 corridor. A decent-sized portion of "Cranberry" is actually in Allegheny County. It's still just such a tiny portion of the county that has any true importance or relevance to the MSA.

The only reason I don't list Fayette above Butler is due to Butler's growth and significant employment centers there now.

[Will O' Wisp]

San Diego-Carlsbad MSA Top 5 Counties

1. San Diego County
2. San Diego County
3. San Diego County
4. San Diego County

And lastly...

5. San Diego County

I kid, I kid. Although our MSA is technically defined as simply San Diego County, if it were not for the border Tijuana would be included as well.

It is a bit interesting though how having the metro area confined almost entirely to a single county tends to make local politics fairly parochial and insular, at least in comparison to true multi-county MSAs.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Speaking of dynamic duos is there another MSA or urban area that packs a similar 1-2 punch like SF-Santa Clara?

Hennepin-Ramsey

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

- Boston proper is in suffolk county, which does contain the indpendent municpalities of revere, chelsea, and winthrop, but collectively they only represent a very small slice of boston's vast suburban area.

I never knew this. Why wouldn't Boston annex the remaining towns in Suffolk?

I mean, I understand the arguments against annexation typically, but Boston isn't a typical case. My guess (and granted, I don't really know that much about political dynamics around Boston) would be that Boston is a higher functioning municipality than the other 3. Isn't Revere quite rough?

[Cirrus]

For Washington, DC:

1. District of Columbia
It's only the 4th most populous, but it's the center and raison d'etre for the rest, and really the only county with significant influence all across the MSA. There might be a few people who hope to stir the pot by saying Fairfax should be number 1, but realistically Fairfax's influence is huge in Virginia and nil-to-marginal across the Potomac. It's not a serious position.

2. Fairfax VA
Fairfax is, however, the undisputed #2. It lords over Virginia completely and out-punches its Maryland peers.

3. Montgomery MD
A clear #3. King of Maryland, and in the same weight class as Fairfax, but can't quite keep up.

4. Prince Georges MD
Of the three big suburban counties hovering around a million population, Prince George's is the obvious least-important. But it's still one of the "big 4" jurisdictions in the region. After this there's a big drop.

5. Arlington VA
While the order of the first four on the list is really unquestionable, at this point it gets extremely debatable. Arlington has less population than 3 counties that I've ranked below it, but they're bedroom counties, and Arlington is a core city, home to the Pentagon, Amazon HQ2, National Airport, etc. If Arlington and Alexandria were a single jurisdiction they might even rank #4, but alone this feels about right for Arlington.

6. Loudoun VA
Now begins a ring of outer suburbs. Loudoun is a touch smaller than Prince William in population, but they're close, and Loudoun's faster growing, wealthier, and has much more important job hubs.

7. Prince William VA
Just shy of a half-million people, classic bedroom suburb.

8. City of Alexandria VA
We inturrupt the list of outer suburbs to slot in 160,000 people in a key core independent city that hits well above weight, but just isn't big enough to go higher.

9. Frederick MD
What sets this county of 170,000 people above the cluster of five counties below it is that about half Frederick's population lives in the underrated City of Frederick, the largest and nicest beyond-the-suburbs satellite city in the DC MSA (Annapolis & Baltimore are in the Baltimore MSA, thus don't count here).

10-14. Charles MD, Stafford VA, Spotsylvania VA, Calvert MD, Fauquier VA
A cluster of 5 pretty indistinguishable semi-rural exurbs, hovering around 100,000 each.

15-16. Cities of Manassas & Fredericksburg VA
Small, sprawly satellite cities. A quirk in Virginia law makes them independent of any county, but it doesn't affect the rankings except that they get their own slots here.

17-19. Jefferson WV, Culpeper VA, Clarke VA.
Small mostly rural counties with populations around 50,000 each.

20-21. Cities of Falls Church & Manassas Park VA
Two more independent cities, but tiny ones that really are just random suburbs.

22-23. Madison & Rappahannock VA
Miniscule rural counties that must be in the MSA because of like 100 commuters. I could not even have told you they were in the MSA at all, if I weren't looking at a list.

[Cirrus]

For Denver:

1. Denver
Indisputable. Both the central hub and largest by population.

--big gap--

2. Arapahoe
Second largest by population, and home to the second most important job hub, along I-25 south.

3. Jefferson
Honestly really close to Arapahoe. So close that maybe somebody could make a case. But it's just a hair lesser in basically every category, so I can't think of any good reason to elevate it.

4. Douglas
Now things get debatable. I've elevated Douglas above bigger Adams because Douglas is the favored quarter.

5. Adams
Least important of the major counties IMO, but still a major county with over half-a-million people. After this the rest are all significantly smaller places, under 100,000.

--huge gap--

6. Broomfield
Independent city of 75,000 that occupies its own tier.

--pretty big gap--

7-10. Elbert, Park, Clear Creek, Gilpin
Small rural counties with only a few thousand people each, only part of the MSA because of a handful of commuters.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

The SF Bay Area was actually named after the Bay not the city which did not exist when for another hundred or so years and which then was known as Yerba Buena. I think the natural part of Treasure Island still has that name.

I thought the city and bay were named after the San Francisco mission?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Many may think this is an exception, but Manhattan-Brooklyn.

Yeah I think this one is a bit more tricky and open to interpretation. Some might argue that Queens is the #2 here, not Kings County. And the other thing to consider is, are Queens or Kings close enough to New York County to be considered in the same standing, or is New York County far and away in its own league?

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Yeah I think this one is a bit more tricky and open to interpretation. Some might argue that Queens is the #2 here, not Kings County. And the other thing to consider is, are Queens or Kings close enough to New York County to be considered in the same standing, or is New York County far and away in its own league?

Nah, Manhattan is a beast. Its GDP is the same as all the other New York metro counties combined. Its only 23 sq miles of area, but with a GDP closer to entire LA county.
I'd give Queens #2, due to having 2 out of the 3 main airports. Kings is #3 since Brooklyn is the biggest economy after Manhattan.
After those 3 it gets really close - Hudson, Westchester, Essex, Fairfield, Nassau are all in the mix.

[iheartthed]

Yeah, Manhattan is the clear cut king of NY metro. There is no nuance at all about that. There's an argument to be made for which order Kings and Queens should be in, but Queens is clearly more strategically important than Brooklyn. I would also say that Essex, NJ and Union, NJ are more strategically important than Brooklyn due to Newark Airport, Newark Penn station, and the port of Newark.