To Save Downtowns, Destroy Them

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by tech12

As if drug addicts and homeless people are a new thing. And even with a 30% vacancy rate, SF still has a large and busy downtown, seeing as there's like 90 million square feet of office space in total, not to mention tourists and shoppers and tens of thousands of residents (close to 100,000 people depending on how you define downtown SF). It's crazy to see the media and pundits pushing this false "crime-ridden ghost town" narrative so hard, especially considering that they failed to do so in past decades, when SF's violent crime rate was 2 to 3 times higher.

It's funny too, because these other cities saying SF is so crime ridden, probably have more violent crime.
Certain media wants to ignore this to push their narrative against SF. It's honestly pathetic, as people who live in those other cities know how dangerous they really are.

But media narratives lol. Anything to lie to people.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by LA21st

It's funny too, because these other cities saying SF is so crime ridden, probably have more violent crime.
Certain media wants to ignore this to push their narrative against SF. It's honestly pathetic, as people who live in those other cities know how dangerous they really are.

But media narratives lol. Anything to lie to people.

Ya. I came from Houston which is way more shooty than SF.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by JManc

Where it's bad, it's bad. The media portrays all of SF this way which is total bullshit as most of the city is fine but downtown is pretty desolate.

This for instance, that was recently brought to me by the Youtube suggestions.

That's a very mainstream media in France. You might be curious to see and hear what they have to show and say to the public over here.
They were definitely influenced by what they saw in the American media, themselves.
Now people who saw it might think SF is a hellish town plagued by hard narcotics, full of dying addicts and zombies on sidewalks.

It's always the same when they focus on a particular topic exclusively, in only 5 minutes. It ends up to be some kind of misinformation. Lots of naive people will eventually think it's the same all over the town, which is definitely erroneous as an inaccurate stereotype.

They also stress on the impact of the Covid crisis on local businesses.
The French dude on his motorbike by the end of the report has been running a small business to tour the city in sidecars.
He's been an expat over there for 25 years, blaming on Covid for having caused the bankruptcy of lots of small and independent businesses on the streets.

The report is not too harsh, though. Still calling the city one of the most appealing in the US.

As for saving downtowns in NA... It may be hard to admit for lots of people over there, but driving most cars away is a major aspect of the solution.
Cars just take too much room in urban space. They are fine for the countryside with low population density.
But they're too greedy for room in a urban environment.

In fact, most American cities have actually widely destroyed their downtowns to make way for cars already.
Everybody knows it.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

What are the chances the Macy's building actually gets converted, btw? I had heard of the plans, but I'm skeptical it will actually happen given the challenges you pointed out.

I just checked and the developer bought the building in 2022 but I didn't see any news that work has begun. My guess is that they see value in this building due to the garage and the fact that they can create extra storage for tenants in the middle of each floor, thanks to the weird shape.

Also, my google search landed on this, which is probably defunct:
http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/m...-habitat-roof/

Also, seems like Cincinnati has almost no development occurring these days, at least downtown

That's incorrect. Several very large downtown buildings are being converted into apartments as we speak, including the Central Trust Tower.

The Queen City Square Tower was built during the last recession and drew major and minor top $ office tenants out of many other buildings. That's what created all of the vacancies in the prewar and even postwar buildings.

What's really crazy is that the allure of that tower came in to focus for me with a conversation with a retired doctor who has an office there - he said for anyone from the east side, they literally have just one red light and then they can turn into the garage. Lindner had so much influence that he was able to get FWW rebuilt to funnel all traffic from I-71 and Columbia Parkway right into his parking garage.

[jboy560]

Originally Posted by LA21st

It's funny too, because these other cities saying SF is so crime ridden, probably have more violent crime.
Certain media wants to ignore this to push their narrative against SF. It's honestly pathetic, as people who live in those other cities know how dangerous they really are.

But media narratives lol. Anything to lie to people.

Violent crime isn’t the only type of crime. When people talk about San Francisco being crime ridden, I generally hear them referring to theft, property crime, drug use, etc. Per the article below, “Nearly half of San Franciscans have been a victim of theft in the past five years and a quarter have been threatened or physically attacked, according to a new poll.” Also, surveys showed “39% of residents have had their property damaged in the past five years.” That’s absolutely insane. When people say SF is crime ridden, that’s what they’re talking about.

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-just...ew-poll-says/#

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jboy560

Violent crime isn’t the only type of crime. When people talk about San Francisco being crime ridden, I generally hear them referring to theft, property crime, drug use, etc. Per the article below, “Nearly half of San Franciscans have been a victim of theft in the past five years and a quarter have been threatened or physically attacked, according to a new poll.” Also, surveys showed “39% of residents have had their property damaged in the past five years.” That’s absolutely insane. When people say SF is crime ridden, that’s what they’re talking about.

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-just...ew-poll-says/#

Eh, I don't think so. Much of Europe has higher levels of property and petty crime than the U.S. Does anyone say Rome is more crime-ridden than Detroit bc there are more wallet snatchings?

Pretty sure, per Occam's Razor, the primary reason people in the alt-right world claim SF is dangerous is bc they're lying and pushing dangerous propaganda about liberal cities.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by jboy560

Violent crime isn’t the only type of crime. When people talk about San Francisco being crime ridden, I generally hear them referring to theft, property crime, drug use, etc. Per the article below, “Nearly half of San Franciscans have been a victim of theft in the past five years and a quarter have been threatened or physically attacked, according to a new poll.” Also, surveys showed “39% of residents have had their property damaged in the past five years.” That’s absolutely insane. When people say SF is crime ridden, that’s what they’re talking about.

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-just...ew-poll-says/#

These types of surveys are highly prone to sampling bias and are not actually representative of the entire population.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Eh, I don't think so. Much of Europe has higher levels of property and petty crime than the U.S. Does anyone say Rome is more crime-ridden than Detroit bc there are more wallet snatchings?

Pretty sure, per Occam's Razor, the primary reason people in the alt-right world claim SF is dangerous is bc they're lying and pushing dangerous propaganda about liberal cities.

While I’m not saying one is more “dangerous” than the other, I know people who have lived their entire lives in SF and haven’t been mugged or pick pocketed, while they have in Europe. In other environment I suspect the majority of the victims are tourists.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by homebucket

While I’m not saying one is more “dangerous” than the other, I know people who have lived their entire lives in SF and haven’t been mugged or pick pocketed, while they have in Europe. In other environment I suspect the majority of the victims are tourists.

I think pickpockets are extremely rare in the US for both tourists and locals. I can't even think of anyone I know who has been pickpocketed in the last 20 years in a US city. But I've heard plenty of stories about it happening in Europe.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by jboy560

Violent crime isn’t the only type of crime. When people talk about San Francisco being crime ridden, I generally hear them referring to theft, property crime, drug use, etc. Per the article below, “Nearly half of San Franciscans have been a victim of theft in the past five years and a quarter have been threatened or physically attacked, according to a new poll.” Also, surveys showed “39% of residents have had their property damaged in the past five years.” That’s absolutely insane. When people say SF is crime ridden, that’s what they’re talking about.

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-just...ew-poll-says/#

Never heard of the sfstandard.com.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think pickpockets are extremely rare in the US for both tourists and locals. I can't even think of anyone I know who has been pickpocketed in the last 20 years in a US city. But I've heard plenty of stories about it happening in Europe.

I’m guessing mugging are more common here than pick pocketing. Car break ins are probably similar?

The only time I’ve had my car broken into wasn’t even in SF. It was in Stockton.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

These types of surveys are highly prone to sampling bias and are not actually representative of the entire population.

delete

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

These types of surveys are highly prone to sampling bias and are not actually representative of the entire population.

Its just another example of stupid right wing bs. Everyone has caught onto their crap. I bet those numbers are made up anyway.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I’m guessing mugging are more common here than pick pocketing. Car break ins are probably similar?

The only time I’ve had my car broken into wasn’t even in SF. It was in Stockton.

I don't know about muggings, they have a lot of them over there too but usually threatened by knife instead of guns.

Car break-ins, absolutely. Even in NYC, which is very public transit oriented, I know a ton of people that have been victims of car break-ins (myself included). But I've never heard of a pickpocket. Even during the "Apple picking" craze, I never knew someone that actually had their phone taken.

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't know about muggings, they have a lot of them over there too but usually threatened by knife instead of guns.

Car break-ins, absolutely. Even in NYC, which is very public transit oriented, I know a ton of people that have been victims of car break-ins (myself included). But I've never heard of a pickpocket. Even during the "Apple picking" craze, I never knew someone that actually had their phone taken.

I know two people who've had their phones stolen in LA. One was on the Expo Line, and the guy grabbed it out of my friend's hands when the doors opened and ran off. The other happened just a couple weeks ago in a crowd in WeHo, and it was a pickpocket situation. The sheriff said there was some sort of organized ring of pickpockets in WeHo, and there had been a recent spike.

To get at the broader question of crime in SF, I definitely think it is blown out of proportion by the media and people trying to advance a right wing agenda. SF is still a very safe major city, essentially without any ghetto areas where homicides are regular occurances. That's pretty unique for a major American city. However, the property crime is definitely out of control, and the cops don't really seem concerned about fixing it. Basically everyone I know who lives or spends considerable time in SF has experienced some sort of theft or property crime. My sister has had her car broken into three times in 4 years, and she lives in a pretty fancy area of the city. The cops are less than helpful, and don't even pretend that they're going to do anything about it. The organized looting of businesses is also a real problem, and is leading to major retailers pulling out of the city. That's obviously unacceptable, but very solvable if the politicians and cops would actually change course a bit. SF seems too concerned with appearing compassionate to the crazies on the street, and the result is that they allow way too much anti-social and criminal behavior to occur.

[iheartthed]

Not to beat up on SF, but something there is very off now:

Mall operator Westfield gives up San Francisco Centre, latest business to pull back from city

Shopping mall operator Westfield said it plans to give up control of the San Francisco Centre mall after more than 20 years of operation in another sign of San Francisco’s economic struggles.

The company attributed its decision to the “challenging operating conditions in downtown San Francisco, which have led to declines in sales, occupancy and foot traffic.”

The mall operator’s decision to surrender its San Francisco space comes after several of the mall’s major stores announced closures, including Nordstrom and Banana Republic.

Last month, a Westfield spokesperson attributed Nordstrom’s closing to “unsafe conditions for customers, retailers, and employees.”

...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/12/busin...all/index.html

I don't buy the narrative that this is about tent cities or that it's really related to crime that much at all.

[Crawford]

Is SF getting a lot fewer tourists? I'd imagine visitors are critical for major downtown shopping districts. I doubt it has anything to do with bums or crime, though WFH may play a role.

I'm pretty sure that Water Tower Place, in Chicago, was recently given up by its owner. That is (or was) a very prime site, but they lost their anchor tenants and got hit hard in the pandemic years. So this isn't unprecedented.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Is SF getting a lot fewer tourists? I'd imagine visitors are critical for major downtown shopping districts. I doubt it has anything to do with bums or crime, though WFH may play a role.

I'm pretty sure that Water Tower Place, in Chicago, was recently given up by its owner. That is (or was) a very prime site, but they lost their anchor tenants and got hit hard in the pandemic years. So this isn't unprecedented.

Less visitors, especially mainland Chinese tourists.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Not to beat up on SF, but something there is very off now:



I don't buy the narrative that this is about tent cities or that it's really related to crime that much at all.

Their biggest tenant, Nordstrom is leaving, it is a crappy spot (Market St.) with a LOT of vagrants/ homeless and with less visitors; both tourists and office workers.

[homebucket]

They Fled San Francisco. The AI Boom Pulled Them Back.
Erin Griffith, New York Times
June 13, 2023

SAN FRANCISCO — Doug Fulop’s and Jessie Fischer’s lives in Bend, Oregon, were idyllic. The couple moved there last year, working remotely in a 2,400-square-foot house surrounded by trees, with easy access to skiing, mountain biking and breweries. It was an upgrade from their former apartments in San Francisco, where a stranger once entered Fulop’s home after his lock didn’t properly latch.

But the pair of tech entrepreneurs are now on their way back to the Bay Area, driven by a key development: the artificial intelligence boom.

Fulop and Fischer are both starting companies that use AI technology and are looking for co-founders. They tried to make it work in Bend, but after too many eight-hour drives to San Francisco for hackathons, networking events and meetings, they decided to move back when their lease ends in August.

“The AI boom has brought the energy back into the Bay that was lost during COVID,” said Fulop, 34.

The couple are part of a growing group of boomerang entrepreneurs who see opportunity in San Francisco’s predicted demise. The tech industry is more than a year into its worst slump in a decade, with layoffs and a glut of empty offices. The pandemic also spurred a wave of migration to places with lower taxes, fewer COVID restrictions, safer streets and more space. And tech workers have been among the most vocal groups to criticize the city for its worsening problems with drugs, housing and crime.

But such busts are almost always followed by another boom. And with the latest wave of AI technology — known as generative AI, which produces text, images and video in response to prompts — there’s too much at stake to miss out.

Investors have already announced $10.7 billion in funding for generative AI startups within the first three months of this year, a thirteenfold increase from a year earlier, according to PitchBook, which tracks startups. Tens of thousands of tech workers recently laid off by Big Tech companies are now eager to join the next big thing. On top of that, much of the AI technology is open source, meaning companies share their work and allow anyone to build on it, which encourages a sense of community.

“Hacker houses,” where people create startups, are springing up in San Francisco’s Hayes Valley neighborhood, known as “Cerebral Valley” because it is the center of the AI scene. And every night, someone is hosting a hackathon, meetup or demo focused on the technology.

In March, days after the prominent startup OpenAI unveiled a new version of its AI technology, an “emergency hackathon” organized by a pair of entrepreneurs drew 200 participants, with almost as many on the waiting list. That same month, a networking event hastily organized over Twitter by Clement Delangue, CEO of the AI startup Hugging Face, attracted more than 5,000 people and two alpacas to San Francisco’s Exploratorium museum, earning it the nickname “Woodstock of AI.”

Madisen Taylor, who runs operations for Hugging Face and organized the event alongside Delangue, said its communal vibe had mirrored that of Woodstock. “Peace, love, building cool AI,” she said.

Taken together, the activity is enough to draw back people like Fischer, who is starting a company that uses AI in the hospitality industry. She and Fulop got involved in the 350-person tech scene in Bend, but they missed the inspiration, hustle and connections in San Francisco.

“There’s just nowhere else like the Bay,” Fischer, 32, said.

Jen Yip, who has been organizing events for tech workers over the past six years, said that what had been a quiet San Francisco tech scene during the pandemic began changing last year in tandem with the AI boom. At nightly hackathons and demo days, she watched people meet their co-founders, secure investments, win over customers and network with potential hires.

“I’ve seen people come to an event with an idea they want to test and pitch it to 30 different people in the course of one night,” she said.

Yip, 42, runs a secret group of 800 people focused on AI and robotics called Society of Artificers. Its monthly events have become a hot ticket, often selling out within an hour. “People definitely try to crash,” she said.

Her other speaker series, Founders You Should Know, features leaders of AI companies speaking to an audience of mostly engineers looking for their next gig. The last event had more than 2,000 applicants for 120 spots, Yip said.

Bernardo Aceituno moved his company, Stack AI, to San Francisco in January to be part of the startup accelerator Y Combinator. He and his co-founders had planned to base the company in New York after the three-month program ended but decided to stay in San Francisco. The community of fellow entrepreneurs, investors and tech talent that they found was too valuable, he said.

“If we move out, it’s going to be very hard to re-create in any other city,” Aceituno, 27, said. “Whatever you’re looking for is already here.”

After operating remotely for several years, Y Combinator has started encouraging startups in its program to move to San Francisco. Out of a recent batch of 270 startups, 86% participated locally, the company said.

“Hayes Valley truly became Cerebral Valley this year,” Garry Tan, Y Combinator’s CEO, said at a demo day in April.

The AI boom is also luring back founders of other kinds of tech companies. Brex, a financial technology startup, declared itself “remote first” early in the pandemic, closing its 250-person office in San Francisco’s SoMa neighborhood. The company’s founders, Henrique Dubugras and Pedro Franceschi, decamped for Los Angeles.

But when generative AI began taking off last year, Dubugras, 27, was eager to see how Brex could adopt the technology. He quickly realized that he was missing out on the coffees, casual conversations and community happening around AI in San Francisco, he said.

In May, Dubugras moved to Palo Alto, California, and began working from a new, pared-down office a few blocks from Brex’s old one. San Francisco’s high office vacancy rate meant the company paid one-quarter of what it had been paying in rent before the pandemic.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/arti...k-18146925.php