Saskatoon | Baydo Towers | ??m - ??m | 25-25 Floors | U/C

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

What are you smoking. Have you ever traveled outside of Saskatoon? There is more "gravel" than anything in the hills in Saskatchewan.

Bet you googled it and went off the first hit you found?

lol clearly there’s a lack of understanding of the high cost of concrete in Sask compared to the rest of Canada on this thread. we lack rock here because of our awesome agricultural soil, but now that more concrete is being created than ever compared to basically zero concrete before river landing, it’s helping spur more concrete builds. I couldn’t find a comparison on concrete costs across Canada but if someone can reference it feel free to call me out. My experience on this is an economics background, also working with our land’s RM sourcing gravel, and i used to work construction. I know this isn’t an issue in other jurisdictions that are constantly mixing high amounts of concrete for multiple builds all of the time.

[Dalreg]

If you are an expert in the field hat is the cost of concrete then? Both in Saskatoon as well as the rest of Canada?

Also you were talking of gravel before now concrete. I have first hand geological survey data of huge gravel deposits all across central Saskatchewan. It's there for the digging. Just need a reason to dig. If there is limited concrete facilities the reason isn't because a lack of gravel.

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

If you are an expert in the field hat is the cost of concrete then? Both in Saskatoon as well as the rest of Canada?

Also you were talking of gravel before now concrete. I have first hand geological survey data of huge gravel deposits all across central Saskatchewan. It's there for the digging. Just need a reason to dig. If there is limited concrete facilities the reason isn't because a lack of gravel.

I’m sorry I don’t, but I know it is limited in SK based on the cost of gravelling our many roads from the lack of supply from my RM near Saskatoon. There’s rumour that a piece of land by me has a gravel deposit, and my friend that’s a geologist said it would be hard to actually know how much gravel is there without digging so i’m questioning your surveying lol. My RM calls it “grey gold” haha

[hunter12]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

What are you smoking. Have you ever traveled outside of Saskatoon? There is more "gravel" than anything in the hills in Saskatchewan.

Bet you googled it and went off the first hit you found?

Please read pages 46 and 47 of the following report from the Saskatchewan Construction Association.

http://www.scaonline.ca/ckfinder/use...%20Drivers.pdf

[roryn1]

Thanks Hunter,
I also found Chris Lefevre talking about the costs here. https://www.pressreader.com/canada/s...83124248058766


From hunter’s document:

Concrete

Concrete was noted as significantly more costly in Saskatchewan than in other major Canadian jurisdictions. Some general contractors noted that on average, the cost of concrete in urban centres in Saskatchewan exceeds that of their other Canadian branches by at least 10%. They noted that concrete costs in Regina can be up to 75% higher than in Toronto, and 25% higher than in Vancouver. (These figures are based on verbal statements from interviewees, but are generally consistent with statistical data).

Nearly all interviewees shared the view that concrete is the single highest driver for increased construction costs among construction materials. They noted that the increase in concrete costs is a function of limited local supply, and the requirement to transport materials from further away. In addition, some participants noted that limited competition existed in the concrete supply industry, as two large companies control the majority of the market, with small start-ups being quickly acquired.

Sand and Gravel Aggregate
Similar to concrete, interview participants noted that the cost of aggregate in Saskatchewan is disproportionately higher than in other jurisdictions, being in limited supply locally, and requiring transportation over long distances.
Participants noted that aggregate is one of the few materials that is sourced in limited quantities locally, and faces serious logistical challenges limiting transportation from outside of the province. The limited available options or substitutes for aggregate result in its cost being inelastic.

[Crisis]

What the hell, I may as well weigh in to this clusterfvck of a discussion, too, as I'been buying concrete here for the last 25 years. The quote below is from the KPMG report linked above. The highlighted portion was bolded by me.

Concrete was noted as significantly more costly in Saskatchewan than in other major Canadian
jurisdictions. Some general contractors noted that on average, the cost of concrete in urban
centres in Saskatchewan exceeds that of their other Canadian branches by at least 10%. They
noted that concrete costs in Regina can be up to 75% higher than in Toronto, and 25% higher
than in Vancouver. (These figures are based on verbal statements from interviewees, but are
generally consistent with statistical data).
Nearly all interviewees shared the view that concrete is the single highest driver for increased
construction costs among construction materials. They noted that the increase in concrete costs
is a function of limited local supply, and the requirement to transport materials from further
away. In addition, some participants noted that limited competition existed in the concrete
supply industry, as two large companies control the majority of the market, with small start-ups
being quickly acquired.

While Saskatchewan is far from being out of gravel, it is true that the good gravel deposits near the major cities have been largely utilized and aggregate now needs to be trucked farther to the concrete plants in the cities. For example, the land adjacent to highway 11 immediately north of Saskatoon used to house many gravel pits but those deposits have long since been exhausted and that land has now been reclaimed and is the home of the racetrack and lots of industrial businesses.

It appears that the KPMG report for the SCA is from 2013-2014 and there has been some significant change in the local concrete market since then. Burnco Concrete arrived here a few years ago and the price of concrete has dropped significantly in Saskatoon compared to where it was at the time of the KPMG report. I would say that concrete prices have dropped in the range of 20% in the last 3-4 years. Some of that is likely due to increased competition from Burnco and some is a result of the generally slower construction industry in recent years resulting in reduced margins.

Not sure why Lafarge was being credited with enabling River landing to proceed by them expanding their local operations. While Lafarge did provide the concrete for early portions for River landing due to having the lowest price at the time, the concrete for Nutrien Tower currently under construction is being provided by Inland, as they had the lowest price when the concrete for that project was tendered. Price rules - no magic there.

Don't even know how this Baydo discussion morphed into a concrete debate, but that's my 2 cents on the issue.

BTW, there is some wicked steel construction forming the central core of Baydo's building on Broadway. Well worth a look if you're in the neighbourhood.

[roryn1]

Thanks for the info crisis. Hopefully all of this new demand for concrete continues to lower concrete prices in the province and then we won’t have threads like this arguing aesthetic of buildings because the developer may have more money to play around with.
My hometowns Yorkton, and they’ve started doing all of their roads with concrete in the past few years - not sure if it’s the same process as building concrete, but I wonder if cities in SK started building more concrete roads that would also bring in more concrete companies to keep lowering prices.

Anyway, i’ll shutup about concrete and gravel now

[alt_center]

Originally Posted by roryn1

Hopefully ... we won’t have threads like this arguing aesthetic of buildings...

roryn1... I for one appreciate your point of view. In fact one of the things I like most about this forum is reading other's views and opinions. I have definitely changed some of my views based on discussions in this forum.

Discussing the attributes (aesthetical and others) of buildings and their impact on cities seems to be what a forum of skyscraper enthusiasts is made for! Imagine a book club where opinions about books are discouraged.

Case in point... I just learned a bit about concrete and gravel.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I wish there were more folks on this forum who posted stuff like... I love/hate this/that building and here is why...

[roryn1]

couldn’t agree more. i come to this thread for the differences in opinions that create such a deep discussion. Our saskatoon threads don’t get down and dirty to one another enough - like how i see Regina’s and Winnipeg’s

[roryn1]

[The Bess]

Nice shot Royin1 looks like you will be the construction camera on this one.

[The Bess]

oops sorry meant Roryn1

[Ricopedra]

edited

[roryn1]

This is from the rooftop at The View! Many photo updates to come. I am very excited for the new neighbors and new retail/commercial to liven up that area. This is going to be an extremely population-dense area of Saskatoon going forward - something our little city hasn't seen before. Time for some street enhancements to 25th because of it (heated cross street pathways or skywalks, better and heated bus stops, an actual bike lane (come on bike lane charlie live up to the damn name)).

I'm so happy they're keeping the trees! I actually used to live in that building right next to it and I miss the super thick city park foliage that's not on the opposing side of fifth in the downtown. Our downtown lacks trees beyond imagination, and our downtown city authority DTNYXE would rather spend budget on new banners than the lack of trees - especially evergreens that green up the appeal of downtown in our 8 months of grey. It seems like a no brainer, but it isn't? Does anyone else just like hate evergreens here that would green up our downtown? How is visual colour during our 8 month grey not seem like a no-brainer.. Do we not live right next to the boreal forest? Why hasn't that translated into our downtown at all. How can we petition for that. That is such an easy fix to the appeal of our cold and windy downtown.

We had these pine trees on our farm. They'd be beautiful downtown and really colour up our city during these cool times. Can we flood DTNYXE's inbox with similar photos?

[SaskScraper]

Ok, so after cringing each time thinking about this project for this past week, with City of Saskatoon project parameter limitations for the site and Baydo may not have much latitude to make appropriate changes to project,
like instead doubling height by building one tower twice as tall instead,
or not using the absolute cheapest materials in buildings exterior.

What Baydo could still easily do is increase the size of the suites windows to make it more appealing both from the inside, thereby increasing the value of each suite rental, but also making the outside of the building less ugly.

I took a minute or two with photoshop to increase by 50% the size of the windows in the illustration released last week. Let me know what you all think...



Is it better with the nominal increase in cost for larger windows?


( just think of how much better the project would look if windows were to... wait for it...

DOUBLE in size!!!)

...or is the current projects small windows with more prominent institutional white-blue-brown colors of the facade, close to a lot of correctional facilities, better suited for a city the likes of Saskatoon?
(the city does have an actively increasing inmate population so aesthetic may be quite appropriate for a lot of citizens here).


Below is Baydo actual project design for window size:

[phone]

.

[Ricopedra]

edited

[Arts]

Aesthetically speaking, that change to the window size addresses the biggest drawback to the exterior of those building. It looks much more attractive (normal) with properly scaled glass - it doesn't make the building perfect but no longer feel like puking when looking at the rendering (vs those tiny windows). The patio doors also could use a rescale... but of course in the real world these changes will affect the costs which might not be feasible for Baydo.

[SaskScraper]

That's my opinion too, increasing window size takes care of some of the problems with the project, other posters have mentioned having staggered height to buildings, make the buildings not quite as close together or turn them to be at an angle, and something drastically different needs to be done with the podium.

I photoshopped another image from the developer released illustration and made windows twice as big as the original diagram of project and added eight more floors to the brown building. Have 5 instead of 4 floors of underground parking would take care of the need for extra parking stalls for suites from 26 to 33 floors
Again let me know if it's looking better or worse.



I'd like to see walkup suites to units from street level to cover up the ugliness of the podium too, there are tons of examples in other cities that give a more human perspective to highrise residential from the street.

[YXE]

Gotta say, I really like these changes... if only!!