HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1901  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 3:16 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,892
Admittedly I do not know a lot about kicking. Never been a kicker myself. My daughter though wanted to play keeper in soccer and not having someone to work with her I spent time practicing her kicks with her. Sure soccer is a little different as the ball is pretty uniform. Over the years though I learned she had figured out how to adjust her contact with the ball to influence the kick. Over time she got fairly consistent with her kicking. And over time I learned to read a lot about how the ball is in the air after being kicked.

Based on all that I can tell you that even outside of crunch situations Legghio is fairly inconsistent in his kicks. It is almost as if he hasn't developed the level of awareness of how to influence the kick with his foot. And that comes from spending the season watching him, not just one game. Sure kicking at the level he does takes skill but it is the refinement of that skill that is missing.

As for the Grey Cup loss and all the dynasty talk before the game, people seem to have gotten very foggy memories of last year's Grey Cup game where the Bombers got taken to overtime and were on the verge of losing the game before an unlikely interception won them the game. This whole seasons was a lot of extremely close games that the Bombers pulled out of the fire to secure a win. Sure there was injuries, etc in the Grey Cup but this went beyond that though. It doesn't take away though Collaros, Jeffcoat and Jeferson are all likely future Hall of Fame players.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1902  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 4:02 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
The Bomber fans behind me at the game said before the FG attempt that there was no way he would make a 47 yarder. I assume he drilled it too low to try to get the distance.
He shanked the kick badly. It was going way left, and maybe is why it was blocked. If he hit it straight, might not have been blocked.

To Cory's point. I would assume he had figured that out being a pro kicker. But he's just inconsistent. You would think there has to be someone, somewhere, who could do a better job than him.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1903  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 5:10 PM
optimusREIM's Avatar
optimusREIM optimusREIM is online now
There is always a way
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
He shanked the kick badly. It was going way left, and maybe is why it was blocked. If he hit it straight, might not have been blocked.

To Cory's point. I would assume he had figured that out being a pro kicker. But he's just inconsistent. You would think there has to be someone, somewhere, who could do a better job than him.
Yeah it was badly shanked. He got the laces on the hold if that is worth anything, I don't find it an excuse really, but maybe it has some impact? Timing was a bit off too.

I don't think we can hang this all on kicking, whole team looked lethargic for long stretches of play.
__________________
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm."
Federalist #10, James Madison
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1904  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 12:05 AM
BlackDog204's Avatar
BlackDog204 BlackDog204 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: west
Posts: 1,515
I really wish this was a bad dream. Losing the Grey Cup is tough enough. Losing to Toronto is really what stings.

I hope the 17 Argos fans in Toronto are happy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1905  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 12:08 AM
BlackDog204's Avatar
BlackDog204 BlackDog204 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: west
Posts: 1,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Yeah it was badly shanked. He got the laces on the hold if that is worth anything, I don't find it an excuse really, but maybe it has some impact? Timing was a bit off too.

I don't think we can hang this all on kicking, whole team looked lethargic for long stretches of play.
During the West Final, I think Liegghio cost us 6 points. He was terrible, but the Bombers won in spite of that. I've known for a long time that this may come back to bite us, and it certainly did.

Having said that, it's obviously not entirely on the kicker, as the Bombers were too arrogant, and the Offence did not show up. Also, there are some horrible people going onto Marc Liegghio's social media accounts, and harassing him. Not cool.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1906  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 1:48 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
Admittedly I do not know a lot about kicking. Never been a kicker myself. My daughter though wanted to play keeper in soccer and not having someone to work with her I spent time practicing her kicks with her. Sure soccer is a little different as the ball is pretty uniform. Over the years though I learned she had figured out how to adjust her contact with the ball to influence the kick. Over time she got fairly consistent with her kicking. And over time I learned to read a lot about how the ball is in the air after being kicked.

Based on all that I can tell you that even outside of crunch situations Legghio is fairly inconsistent in his kicks. It is almost as if he hasn't developed the level of awareness of how to influence the kick with his foot. And that comes from spending the season watching him, not just one game. Sure kicking at the level he does takes skill but it is the refinement of that skill that is missing.

As for the Grey Cup loss and all the dynasty talk before the game, people seem to have gotten very foggy memories of last year's Grey Cup game where the Bombers got taken to overtime and were on the verge of losing the game before an unlikely interception won them the game. This whole seasons was a lot of extremely close games that the Bombers pulled out of the fire to secure a win. Sure there was injuries, etc in the Grey Cup but this went beyond that though. It doesn't take away though Collaros, Jeffcoat and Jeferson are all likely future Hall of Fame players.
I wouldn't say they were on the verge of losing the game. The Bombers were winning by 8 points so the best Hamilton would have done was tie the game assuming they could even complete the 2-point convert (50-50 at best).

Legghio costs the Bombers yardage on his kickoffs. He would kick the ball to the Toronto 15 or 20 yard line and the Argos would return the ball to the 45 or so. Meanwhile, the Argos kicker would kick the ball to the Bombers 5 yard line or goal line and the Bombers would often only return the ball to around the 30 yard line. Losing that much field position over the course of the game is costly.

Buck's play-calling wasn't very good either. Besides the obvious brutal call to put in Prokop and have him pass an underthrown ball to be intercepted (after Legghio had run the ball 13 yards on the previous play no less), it appeared Buck was content with sticking to slower developing plays for intermediate passes despite the fact Collaros was facing tremendous pressure in the second half. He should have mixed in some quick hitters (screens, short pass to the flats) where Zach would just take a few steps back and release the ball.

I also thought it was a bad call to go with the pass on second and 5 prior to the blocked field goal. Besides the fact that the Bombers would have likely moved the ball at least few yards closer - possibly 5 or more yards setting up a first down and more plays afterwards to increase the chances of a successful field goal - the incomplete pass resulted in 50 seconds remaining on the clock. Even if they Bombers had completed the field goal, the Argos would have the ball at the 40 yard line and would have had 45 seconds or so to get the ball in field goal range. Likely time for 6 or so plays to move the ball 35 - 40 yards for a mid-range field goal.

Turning point for me was the missed tackle for a sack and 20 yard run by Kelly on second and 15 with 5:30 left in the game. If the sack was made, the Argos are out of field goal range and are forced to punt. Completely changes the playcalling and I think the Bombers get enough first downs and burn off enough clock to prevent the Argos from kicking 2 field goals in the final minutes of the game. I don't see Kelly marching the Argos down the field for a TD.

Losing Jeffcoat partway through the game definitely hurt and I don't think that Kelly is able to pull off that 15 yard run if he is in there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1907  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 1:52 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
I don't think the Bombers were arrogant at all. They were all business leading up to the game practicing outside without jackets throughout the week. O'shea 's teams tend to minimize those kind of attitudes. An arrogant Bomber team was the 2001 edition with many of the players reportedly partying it up during Grey Cup week, playing a large part in the upset.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1908  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 3:45 AM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canmore, AB
Posts: 66,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
He shanked the kick badly. It was going way left, and maybe is why it was blocked. If he hit it straight, might not have been blocked.

To Cory's point. I would assume he had figured that out being a pro kicker. But he's just inconsistent. You would think there has to be someone, somewhere, who could do a better job than him.
This.

Watched it again today and it was nowhere near straight and a good 20-30 degrees off.
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1909  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 4:34 AM
roccerfeller's Avatar
roccerfeller roccerfeller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BC
Posts: 2,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
I don't think the Bombers were arrogant at all. They were all business leading up to the game practicing outside without jackets throughout the week. O'shea 's teams tend to minimize those kind of attitudes. An arrogant Bomber team was the 2001 edition with many of the players reportedly partying it up during Grey Cup week, playing a large part in the upset.
agreed

toronto's defence showed up and played amazing. have to give them credit
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1910  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 3:37 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
To Cory's point. I would assume he had figured that out being a pro kicker. But he's just inconsistent. You would think there has to be someone, somewhere, who could do a better job than him.
To get to the level of being a prokicker you normally spend a lot of time kicking balls. It is how my daughter learned to do it just taking a ball and repeatedly doing kicks. That you are still as inconsistent as Legghio shows you didn't fully develop the skills. I've witnessed Legghio do overly high kicks in game situations when it wasn't needed. The higher you kick a ball the shorter the ground distance it will travel, think of throwing a ball straight up v throwing in forward. There is just something fundamentally off about how Legghio kicks and it is not something that is likely to be solved with more time.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1911  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 5:09 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,782
I've watched a lot of footballs get kicked and he definitely doesn't have "it".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1912  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 5:21 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
As for the Grey Cup loss and all the dynasty talk before the game, people seem to have gotten very foggy memories of last year's Grey Cup game where the Bombers got taken to overtime and were on the verge of losing the game before an unlikely interception won them the game. This whole seasons was a lot of extremely close games that the Bombers pulled out of the fire to secure a win. Sure there was injuries, etc in the Grey Cup but this went beyond that though. It doesn't take away though Collaros, Jeffcoat and Jeferson are all likely future Hall of Fame players.
You are absolutely right... a couple of unlucky bounces over the past couple years and we would never have been having this discussion about a dynasty in the first place. But still... while I try not to get too emotional about wins and losses, this was a more gutting loss than usual. I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't know when we'll ever see a Winnipeg team, Bombers or otherwise, try to go for 3 in a row again. It feels like it's a once in a lifetime, or maybe a once in a generation thing. We were SO CLOSE
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1913  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 5:30 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,782
Gotta be good to be lucky. I would expect the Grey Cup to be the toughest game of the year, because theoretically it's the best 2 teams. The overall record speaks for itself. Collaros is something like 34-5 since joining the team. That is obviously very good and worthy of the dynasty discussion. No so much anymore but we'll see what happens next year.

I call this team the COVID dynasty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1914  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 6:45 PM
Crisis's Avatar
Crisis Crisis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,225
Just wanted to come on here and fess up to cheering against the Bombers in this Grey Cup. I still bet on them, though, as I definitely believe they were the better team heading into the game, and still think they would win most games against the Argos. I would have normally cheered for the Bombers as the West representative, but the reason I didn't was simply all the talk of the Dynasty. And I know that I'm not alone in that opinion. Sour grapes due to the Riders getting owned by the Bombers in recent years? Sure, but it's the truth.

While there is no denying that the Bomber have been the best team in the CFL in recent years, my opinion is forged by memories of the Edmonton Eskimos' run of 5 in a row in the late 70s - early 80s. Those teams simply dominated the league during those years and were truly a Dynasty. And, as much as I like Zach Collaros, he doesn't belong in the same conversation as Warren Moon (or Flutie or Calvillo, IMHO) when it comes to the CFL's greatest QBs.

Yeah, you had a shitty kicker this year but Bede wasn't exactly Mr. Reliable either. The Bombers greatest attribute has been their remarkable ability to find a way to win even when they didn't play well. On Sunday, they simply couldn't pull that out one more time. Things still look sunny in Winnipeg, though. As long as O'Shea is there, you're going to have a good team - much to the chagrin of those of us that bleed green.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1915  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2022, 10:59 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Yes, Collaros isn't in Moon's league. Moon is the second greatest quarterback in CFL history imo after Flutie. I don't even think Collaros is close to being the best quarterback in Bomber history despite back-to-back MOPs. He has only played for the Bombers a little over 2 seasons.

I would rank Bomber quarterbacks as follows:

1. probably Ken Ploen
2. Dieter Brock
3. Tom Clements
4. Jack Jacobs
5. Could be either Matt Dunigan or Collaros...I might even consider Khari Jones here.

Numbers 1 - 4 could be played around with in terms of order, but I consider all of them better Bomber quarterbacks. Even though a couple of them never won the Grey Cup with the Bombers, context is necessary given their respective situations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1916  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 4:58 PM
dennis dennis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Yes, Collaros isn't in Moon's league. Moon is the second greatest quarterback in CFL history imo after Flutie. I don't even think Collaros is close to being the best quarterback in Bomber history despite back-to-back MOPs. He has only played for the Bombers a little over 2 seasons.

I would rank Bomber quarterbacks as follows:

1. probably Ken Ploen
2. Dieter Brock
3. Tom Clements
4. Jack Jacobs
5. Could be either Matt Dunigan or Collaros...I might even consider Khari Jones here.

Numbers 1 - 4 could be played around with in terms of order, but I consider all of them better Bomber quarterbacks. Even though a couple of them never won the Grey Cup with the Bombers, context is necessary given their respective situations.
Dunnigan is above Jones and Collaros. Didn’t he have a 700 plus yards passing game once?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1917  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 7:22 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis View Post
Dunnigan is above Jones and Collaros. Didn’t he have a 700 plus yards passing game once?
Wins and championships outrank any individual passing stats IMO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1918  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2022, 12:38 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Wins and championships outrank any individual passing stats IMO.
They play a role imo but are not the be-all end-all. Some quarterbacks have the luxury of better talent surrounding them and/or easier competition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1919  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 12:42 AM
dennis dennis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
They play a role imo but are not the be-all end-all. Some quarterbacks have the luxury of better talent surrounding them and/or easier competition.
I think in the case of Dunnigan, luck played a bit of a role. Same goes for Kevin Glenn in 2007. He might have had a cup to his name.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1920  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 11:28 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Apparently Kenny Lawler is close to or has already signed with the Bombers. If so, we will have the best receiver back in blue and gold!
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:49 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.