Manitoba Highways

[rrskylar]

[QUOTE=WildCake;9692266]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Yea, at least those repairs were covered by the builders under warranty.

What repairs, nothing has been done to fix the dips in the cloverleaf yet!

[bomberjet]

I've drove the 59 interchange a couple times now. The bumps aren't a horrendous car shattering brick wall like the news made it sound. At least not on the portions I've drove. But ya they're definitely there lol

So yes, they did build the embankments at least 1 year prior, have wick drains, etc. But that doesn't really help right against the bridge where that material was backfilled when the bridge was done. So it didn't sit for a year or whatever. There are ways to mitigate this issue. But it seems like they didn't really do anything. Such as approach slabs, cellular concrete, EPS. They just backfilled with gravel (sand) a few times. Maybe they (the design-build contractor) planned on doing the repairs under warranty instead of spending money on mitigation efforts.

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've drove the 59 interchange a couple times now. The bumps aren't a horrendous car shattering brick wall like the news made it sound. At least not on the portions I've drove. But ya they're definitely there lol

I drive this interchange a few times per week, I'd describe them as "jumps". Some of the approaches are worse than others, but they are all noticeable and well below the quality that you'd expect for a project of this size. One thing that I will say is that they get worse by the month.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've drove the 59 interchange a couple times now. The bumps aren't a horrendous car shattering brick wall like the news made it sound. At least not on the portions I've drove. But ya they're definitely there lol

So yes, they did build the embankments at least 1 year prior, have wick drains, etc. But that doesn't really help right against the bridge where that material was backfilled when the bridge was done. So it didn't sit for a year or whatever. There are ways to mitigate this issue. But it seems like they didn't really do anything. Such as approach slabs, cellular concrete, EPS. They just backfilled with gravel (sand) a few times. Maybe they (the design-build contractor) planned on doing the repairs under warranty instead of spending money on mitigation efforts.

Sure in a car they are not bad. Try it in a truck pulling a trailer. The trailer gets airborne. And since the Perimeter is for getting traffic and trucks etc. This is unacceptable.

[BuildUpWpg]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

I drive this interchange a few times per week, I'd describe them as "jumps". Some of the approaches are worse than others, but they are all noticeable and well below the quality that you'd expect for a project of this size. One thing that I will say is that they get worse by the month.

The same thing is happening with the approaches to the overpass on Center Port Canada Way. The bikes on my hitch rack jump up when I ride over those bumps! Makes me cringe every time. And there are no orange warning signs to let people know about it.

[BuildUpWpg]

Originally Posted by pacman

I agree that there is a half-hearted attempt at the appearance of sequential major projects, but the reality is that even going by the PC's suggested timeline we won't see a fully built out ultimate design south perimeter for decades, nevermind the St Norbert or Headingly bypasses. That is because instead of treating the whole south perimeter as one single mega-project, they are divvying it into countless smaller projects and knocking things off on a checklist instead of tackling it all at once. Obviously money is not endless, but the chances of getting billion dollar mega-project funding from the federal government greatly increase with a bigger scale instead of 25, 50, or even 100 million dollar projects.

In the absence of that, there is absolutely nothing preventing the province from building simple new diamond or similar interchanges at Pipeline, Wenzel, Gunn, etc... one year at a time concurrently with the south perimeter projects. We had historical low interest rates and a federal government wanting to spend money, but instead we got more traffic lights. Everytime people question this there are only "ya-buts" in response. We can't do this yet because of this, and if we do that then we gotta do this, let's do another study, and nothing gets done for decades. I'm sorry but the leadership and political will in this province are the things that are really holding us back.

Edit: This has nothing to do with any political stripes, my frustration is with anyone who has been in power and refused to look big picture given the opportunity. All political parties and governments in Manitoba in my lifetime have failed.

Well said! This applies to both our provincial and civic leadership! If only their way of thinking was squashed by a visionary leader back in the 60's, where we would we be now? Close to Calgary? Maybe not, but not far off. At least at Saskatoon's level and maybe a population flirting with one million now.

[rrskylar]

On a positive note, province has upgraded and is resurfacing #59 from St. Malo to the US border!

[esquire]

As a grieving family demands action on Trans-Canada, province vows to ‘look into’ adding lanes

Have no fear, the province is looking into things!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

As a grieving family demands action on Trans-Canada, province vows to ‘look into’ adding lanes

Have no fear, the province is looking into things!

The Trans Canada Highwaywest to the SK border was completed a couple decades back, you would think the province could have completed the eastern side at some time during that time frame. Just lousy provincial govts. from all political parties in power!

[wags_in_the_peg]

East is slightly different due to landscape than going west, not impossible but not lots of detours for travelers. I'm assuming truck routes will be detoured for a few years during construction, unless the route is completely seperated from current lanes

[esquire]

^ When you consider the extensive engineering challenges in other provinces like BC or in northern Ontario, surely there is a way to twin this measly 17 km stretch of highway?!

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ When you consider the extensive engineering challenges in other provinces like BC or in northern Ontario, surely there is a way to twin this measly 17 km stretch of highway?!

agreed!

recently visited the "old pinawa dam", built without GPS, soil tests, and by wheelbarrows of concrete in 1904-1905 and it still standing. after seeing that, anything is possible with a little hardwork!

[Biff]

Lets not kid ourselves....it has nothing to do with engineering. It's money.

Sure it will be challenging, but this isn't the Panama Canal. It is 17 km of Canadian shield with a couple of challenging spots.

[Biff]

7 km from the divided portion east of Falcon to Barren Lake is a piece of cake, flat open land. The 1 km around Barren lake will be a challenge yes - likely requiring a bridge for the east bound lanes over the edge on the lake. The 6 km or so from Barren to West Hawk are again fairly basic. Between West Hawk and the twinned border section, approx 2 km is challenging as there is 2 fairly significant hills descending into boggy conditions at the bottoms. These spots are where engineers get paid.

[esquire]

There is plenty of room for improvement even without even resorting to twinning. Look at the Sea to Sky Highway in BC as an excellent example of a highway built in very challenging conditions that still delivers good safety in a super-2 format.

Like so many other highways in Manitoba, the TCH through the Whiteshell was built 60+ years ago according to the engineering standards of the time, and then never upgraded after that. And of course, now we have a busy highway that is woefully out of date because nothing on it has improved since Lester Pearson was the Prime Minister.

[Biff]

...

[thewave46]

While somewhat lower standard, is Highway 1 near Ontario really a priority?

There are bigger demands and higher priorities for Manitoba. IMO the Perimeter being the big one.

It's cold of me to boil it all down to statistical analysis of accidents and cost-benefit ratios, but I'd wager that grade separating the major route around the biggest city in the province would be the better use of money.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The Trans Canada Highwaywest to the SK border was completed a couple decades back, you would think the province could have completed the eastern side at some time during that time frame. Just lousy provincial govts. from all political parties in power!

I recall that the last western section of the TCH was twinned but they didn't pave it for several years. And it wasn't until SK did the big push to finish their section that MB was forced by embarrassment to pave their side.

I could be wrong about how long the twinned section was left unpaved though.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by esquire

There is plenty of room for improvement even without even resorting to twinning. Look at the Sea to Sky Highway in BC as an excellent example of a highway built in very challenging conditions that still delivers good safety in a super-2 format.

Like so many other highways in Manitoba, the TCH through the Whiteshell was built 60+ years ago according to the engineering standards of the time, and then never upgraded after that. And of course, now we have a busy highway that is woefully out of date because nothing on it has improved since Lester Pearson was the Prime Minister.

A better example will be the various sections of divided 4 lanes of TCH between Thunder Bay and Nipigon, as the terrain’s more comparable.
We are dealing with igneous rocks (Canadian Shield) not sedimentary rocks (B.C. Coastal Mountains) here so we can probably demand more.
I also wonder whether by super 2 you mean 1 lane each direction but with alternating passing lanes? 17 km of no passing lane with moderate truck traffic is highly problematic. If the answer is yes, I guess it may work. In that case, it comes down to whether Manitoba wanna maintain the consistency of road design with Ontario.

Originally Posted by thewave46

While somewhat lower standard, is Highway 1 near Ontario really a priority?

There are bigger demands and higher priorities for Manitoba. IMO the Perimeter being the big one.

It's cold of me to boil it all down to statistical analysis of accidents and cost-benefit ratios, but I'd wager that grade separating the major route around the biggest city in the province would be the better use of money.

Given the numerous death traps on Manitoba’s TCH, especially around Winnipeg, I suppose so.

[bomberjet]

The statistical analysis thing. I believe they've done that, with 100 being the highest priority location.

Essentially the 'national' highway system in Manitoba is #1, #75, and the Perimeter. MTI is focusing on these location specifically. So twinning/freewayinizing #1 in the Whiteshell would be a huge gap to fill in that network.

Could the $400 million or whatever it will cost be used elsewhere, of course.