One of the biggest myths which hurts cities: That schools matter much

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Wow that's an early start, at least to me.

When does your kids school let out?

our school has a 7 hour school day.

8:15 am to 3:15 pm.

I don't know if that's school-specific or a district-wide CPS thing.

[eschaton]

Our kids are on very different school schedules now, partially because start/stop times are staggered for the bus schedule. Our daughter has to be at school by 7, but gets out at 2:15, while our son gets to school at 9, but gets out around 4.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Wow that's an early start, at least to me. Toronto schools typically start at 8:50am.

When does your kids school let out?

Ours tend to be 3:10-3:30pm

My daughters elementary school starts at 7:45 AM and gets out at 3:30.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

No. Some people are really smart. Most aren't.



Yeah. They're smarter.

You can't be serious?

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

But...kids are learning more in absolute terms

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-sch...article_inline

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dum...nion_lead_pos3

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

our school has a 7 hour school day.

8:15 am to 3:15 pm.

I don't know if that's school-specific or a district-wide CPS thing.

Interesting!

Made me wonder when one thinks of instructional time, how that would compare here.

For that, one must factor in the number of school days per year.

I googled this for Chicago and got 176, while Ontario is 195.

So Chicago, nominally has ( 7 x 176) 1232 school hours per year.

While Toronto (and likely all of Ontario) has (6.5 x 195) 1267.5 school hours per year.

Pretty comparable; though Ontario would nominally come out w/35.5 more hours in a year, roughly equal to one additional week of learning.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

It's FAR from the only thing to consider, but holy shit can it make figuring out child logistics a whole lot easier at times.

Do you not have...busses?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do you not have...busses?

Dunno about anyone else, but bussing never really worked for us in large part because it's not compatible with before/aftercare, and neither one of us worked from home (save for awhile during COVID of course).

It's like...yeah, I could wait for the bus with my son, but it means I'm only leaving for work every morning past 8:30, and getting home from work at 4:30.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do you not have...busses?

like yellow school buses?

not really. not for most CPS neighborhood schools anyway.

The only time my kids have ever ridden a yellow school bus has been for school field trips.

One of the main concepts behind the K-8 neighborhood school is that all of the kids live close enough to schoool to simply walk there for their entire childhood.

and when they're old enough for highschool, when they usually have to travel a bit further afield for school everyday, they have the CTA, and reduced monthly student passes, at their disposal.

[Obadno]

You can do what you want but I wont be putting my kids in some awful failing warzone city school district.

[Steely Dan]

^ yeah, I wouldn't do that either.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Obadno

You can do what you want but I wont be putting my kids in some awful failing warzone city school district.

Fortunately, no US cities are currently in an active war zone, so we all good!

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Fortunately, no US cities are currently in an active war zone, so we all good!

No, but plenty of schools are not particularly safe and many have student bodies that don't give a crap about education with teachers that oblige. Urban parents have to navigate this. It's not super easy, but it can be done. I am glad all my kids are in High School now. There are few good non selective enrollment High Schools in CPS.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Fortunately, no US cities are currently in an active war zone, so we all good!

Speak for yourself. I just dodged sniper fire here in Noe Valley and the 101st Airborne just mobilized on enemy positions holed up along Van Ness.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do you not have...busses?

Urban areas often don't have school buses. There's public transit, but not many people are having 5-yos ride trains and buses alone. Probably in Tokyo but not here.

And actually, many parts of the country have no school buses. In the NYC metro, I think most suburbs don't do school buses. The older walkable suburbs almost never do school buses. I'm pretty sure CA doesn't do school buses in most districts.

Growing up in MI, school buses were the norm basically everywhere. But everything is really spread out, and it was more or less a parental expectation. Not sure if that's changed, with helicopter parenting. I bet lots of parents drive their kids to school nowadays.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

You should obviously do whatever you feel is best for your child and family, but one piece of unsolicited advice I'll offer is: don't discount daily school logistics in your calculation.

I can't think of of a whole lot of decisions that've made my life as a parent of two young children easier than kinda lucking our way into our forever home being only 1 block away from a good K-8 CPS neighborhood school.

School starts at 8:15 at my kids' school. They can literally walk out our front door at 8:12 and still make it to school on time.

It's FAR from the only thing to consider, but holy shit can it make figuring out child logistics a whole lot easier at times.

Yeah, it's a bit of a wash. South Loop Elementary is pretty fast to get to from our place, but the Lab School is basically on my commute anyway...

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Yeah, it's a bit of a wash. South Loop Elementary is pretty fast to get to from our place, but the Lab School is basically on my commute anyway...

Ha, my kid has played at that elementary playground a bunch of times (we have family friends right nearby).

[pdxtex]

I don't have kids but these last two election cycles have been eye opening. I never realized how much power labor unions and the NEA wield behind the scenes. Its fascinating. Apparently Oregon public schools are abysmal but that probably more rhetoric than anything.

[edale]

I'm not inclined to believe that schools have little impact on academic performance, as is being claimed, but even if that's true, that is only part of the equation. Schools largely determine the social network for kids. When they're little, it doesn't matter as much, but by junior high/high school, I think it becomes very important. You want to normalize success and achievement. At my high school (private), there really wasn't an option of not going to college. And most kids were applying to upper tier universities, or at least good/competitive programs at state schools. We had a lot of AP classes offered, and there was also a quiet expectation that kids would take at least one or two of those. The environment set the expectation for high achievement, and everyone was held to it. You also have networking potential, both with your peers and their families. I know several people who got their foot in the door at their place of employment because of connections established in high school. So, I think schools make quite a bit of difference when it comes to outcomes for children.

Thankfully, Cincinnati Public Schools has one of the top public high schools in the country. So, those who test in can receive an amazing education (with many of the same benefits of my private school) for free. Having Walnut Hills High School as an option has definitely helped the city of Cincinnati retain families- especially middle class and above.

[PhillyRising]

We hear that families are supposedly fleeing Philadelphia because of the schools but two of the top public high schools in Pennsylvania are in the Philadelphia Schools district. Any of the schools in the Philadelphia suburbs that do dominate the top 10 are all in very high income, high property value areas. So I can't imagine anyone middle class leaving the city are moving to suburbs with schools that much better than what they are leaving...if that really is the case. Downingtown is the only district on this list in the Phillu burbs where you could find a somewhat affordable older home in the Borough...that's about it. However, Downingtown school taxes are very high. I live in that district and it's not uncommon for a family whose kids are now out of those schools to sell the home to rid themselves of the the tax burden. The school taxes in the neighboring West Chester district are like 40 percent less and you can still have a really nice house.

1.Julia R. Masterman Secondary School (Philadelphia City School District) Philadelphia, PA
2. Downingtown STEM Academy (Downingtown Area School District) Downington, PA
3. Radnor High School (Radnor Township School District) Radnor, PA
4.Conestoga High School (Tredyffrin-Easttown School District) Berwyn, PA
5.Central High School (Philadelphia City School District) Philadelphia, PA
6.Unionville High School (Unionville-Chadds Ford School District) Kennett Square, PA
7.Peters Township High School (Peters Township School District) Mcmurray, PA
8.Central Bucks High School-East (Central Bucks School District) Doylestown, PA
9.Pittsburgh CAPA 6-12 (Pittsburgh School District) Pittsburgh, PA
10.New Hope-Solebury High School (New Hope-Solebury School District) New Hope, PA