If the U.S. Collapses, What Would Be The Future of Your State (and City)

[Chef]

Originally Posted by JManc

People don't realize how fragile civil society is. All it takes is a period of time and hardship for the deck of cards to fall. If TikTok is down for a few days, GenZ will not survive.


When it happens, I am going to form a cult in the Nevada desert and you are all cordially invited.

Two weeks of empty grocery stores and we are in Mad Max world.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

...and the Founding Fathers were smart as hell. This country's establishment was a one-in-a-million circumstance.

Nah... they were just privileged and educated dudes, at a time when both were quite rare, who found themselves in a relatively untouched land blessed with natural resources unparalleled on the planet, and protected from outside influence by thousands of miles of vast ocean on both sides. That's why it has succeeded as the longest form of democratic govt in history, not because of their supposed "genius".

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's not a fantasy, lol. This is supported by things that happened. You don't need to be a cunning genius to destabilize a country. A powerful idiot has brought down more societies than we can count.

As long as we understand “collapse” to mean irreconcilable political dysfunction ala breakup of the Soviet Union… and not Mad Max end of civilized life as we know it,

I think the first is a plausible danger in the far off future, the second is not even worth thinking about outside of fiction.

[Centropolis]

st. louis city and county already pretty much function like inner and outer rings of a city-state. last i checked we funded our own transit and a bunch of other stuff.

probably more traffic and international commerce via the river (again).

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Utah becomes the Mormon kingdom and is its own thing entirely

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Mormons would likely move en masse to Deseret/

Haha. Utah War 2.0! Polygamy is back on the menu! To be honest though I might even join them. Between having large families, a religious injunction to store food and prepare for cataclysm, and being a large somewhat insular religious community with an established leadership hierarchy, they'd probably do better than most.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Haha. Utah War 2.0! Polygamy is back on the menu! To be honest though I might even join them. Between having large families, a religious injunction to store food and prepare for cataclysm, and being a large somewhat insular religious community with an established leadership hierarchy, they'd probably do better than most.

Yes, my people would thrive as far as sustaining their daily needs and being organized and orderly. It's what they do best.

However, despite the fact that I love them, I could **never** live around so many of them-just not my thing. No, I think I'll just stay here and take my chances in the rough and tumble climes of California.

[llamaorama]

If the US collapsed, Texas would become a deeply authoritarian one-party state. I would not want to live here anymore.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

If the US collapsed, Texas would become a deeply authoritarian one-party state. I would not want to live here anymore.

I don’t disagree with this, and I also think that we’d run the risk of Balkanizing ourselves and splitting into competing states each centered around one of the major cities and Mexico picking off the RGV and El Paso and much of the borderlands. It’d be a sad reality.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by JManc

People don't realize how fragile civil society is.....

Things have been said only 9 missed meals and anarchy could take place


The problem is

is that the more densely populated areas would suffer first from the shortage of food and fuel.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

st. louis city and county already pretty much function like inner and outer rings of a city-state. last i checked we funded our own transit and a bunch of other stuff.

probably more traffic and international commerce via the river (again).

No doubt, St. Louis would be a much more robust metro if even half of the money we send to the state of Missouri was reinvested into the region. I honestly think St. Louis would do pretty well as an independent city-state too. It would be great if American metro areas had the same sort of autonomy that many countries give urban zones. The state system is a somewhat antiquated way of administrating urban areas in the 21st century, but I highly doubt the rural dominated state legislatures would agree to such an arrangement.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

If the US collapsed, Texas would become a deeply authoritarian one-party state. I would not want to live here anymore.

If the US collapsed, Texas would as well. This wouldn't be like the Soviet Union where only the Soviet government fell with the republics still left standing relatively intact.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by JManc

If the US collapsed, Texas would as well. This wouldn't be like the Soviet Union where only the Soviet government fell with the republics still left standing relatively intact.

Pretty sure a deeply authoritarian state would be a collapse, no?

And I somewhat disagree on your premise, anyway. There are likely a number of states that would come out relatively intact, even if economically harmed tremendously in the short and medium term. Of course, who knows what happens long term in such a scenario. California and Texas are the two most obvious candidates, even more so than New York (which would have to go about bargaining with Jersey, Connecticut, and others to ensure the continuation of the metro within a single national entity). I’d also nominate Louisiana to that list.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Nah... they were just privileged and educated dudes,

...who risked their lives by defying the King of England.

No little Twitter advocate has willingly signed their own death warrant by their fashionable pursuit "justice". It's not even possible - thanks to those hum-drum privileged and educated dudes.

[Chisouthside]

It would just become the US again.
The great lakes would form an alliance with the northeast for economic prosperity. The west coast would form another entity. Plains states would have to form economic agreements with both entities to get their product out to markets. Eventually they might be folded in. I can see texas and the deep south holding out. The great lakes/northeast alliance might eventually invade the south for control of the Mississippi, in the meantime the great lakes/east coast alliance could use east coast ports to get product in and out. The great plains states would also also need access to imports and while they would have access via an alliance with texas/south its probably more economically feasible to unite with the west coast or greatlakes/northeast. Ideology is important but the business owners of the great plains would most likely guide the direction of those states and in the end money talks. Alaska and Hawaii would most likely unite with the west coast union.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

As long as we understand “collapse” to mean irreconcilable political dysfunction ala breakup of the Soviet Union… and not Mad Max end of civilized life as we know it,

I think the first is a plausible danger in the far off future, the second is not even worth thinking about outside of fiction.

Yeah, I'm talking about a government collapse a la Soviet Union, not necessarily a societal collapse. The Civil War was a government collapse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_collapse

These have happened with regularity throughout the history of civilization, and are usually violent. The post WW2 era is unique in that there have been many amicable collapses, such as the Soviet Union and the end of the British empire.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, I'm talking about a government collapse a la Soviet Union, not necessarily a societal collapse. The Civil War was a government collapse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_collapse

These have happened with regularity throughout the history of civilization, and are usually violent. The post WW2 era is unique in that there have been many amicable collapses, such as the Soviet Union and the end of the British empire.

IMHO, the US is 'collapsing' due to political extremism choking the life out of public discourse and an outright denial of and/or flat out refusal to accept facts by millions of people. They are ready to die on a hill of mush and lies.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Nah... they were just privileged and educated dudes, at a time when both were quite rare, who found themselves in a relatively untouched land blessed with natural resources unparalleled on the planet, and protected from outside influence by thousands of miles of vast ocean on both sides. That's why it has succeeded as the longest form of democratic govt in history, not because of their supposed "genius".

Thats selling them a bit short come on.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

IMHO, the US is 'collapsing' due to political extremism choking the life out of public discourse and an outright denial of and/or flat out refusal to accept facts by millions of people. They are ready to die on a hill of mush and lies.

Actually I would say the internet has skewed the feeling of Political "energy"

100 years ago a bunch of dudes would load up their rifles and go citizens arrest on situations they disagreed with. Today a bunch of people bitch to their twitter and Facebook friends about policies they don't like.

Very few people have the type of political motivation to actually do anything. Case in point, January 6th being treated like anything more than a rambunctious protest or when the antifa protests in Portland were international news.

Go review the Labor and race riots from the 1930's, 20's teens, 1800's and see the vast difference of our rather pathetic politics today.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by JManc

If the US collapsed, Texas would as well. This wouldn't be like the Soviet Union where only the Soviet government fell with the republics still left standing relatively intact.

I think Texas and CA could survive.

NCR stickers

[Centropolis]

wikipedia.com.com

bring it (missouri territory) back (but without slavery this time…)