Diversity of the foreign-born population

[Docere]

Because it lacks a large African American and Hispanic population (the largest minority groups in the US, so lower numbers from these groups generally means lower minority % overall), Seattle is often seen as a place that "lacks diversity." But it has a large Asian population and good representation of Asian nationalities, a sizeable East African population and surprisingly high number born in the FSU for a city not known for having European ethnic communities. The south King County suburbs in particular look very diverse.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Docere

Because it lacks a large African American and Hispanic population (the largest minority groups in the US, so lower numbers from these groups generally means lower minority % overall), Seattle is often seen as a place that "lacks diversity." But it has a large Asian population and good representation of Asian nationalities, a sizeable East African population and surprisingly high number born in the FSU for a city not known for having European ethnic communities. The south King County suburbs in particular look very diverse.

Also large Native American, Pacific Islander, and multi-ethnic populations, and a pretty good percentage of international-born.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

Because it lacks a large African American and Hispanic population (the largest minority groups in the US, so lower numbers from these groups generally means lower minority % overall), Seattle is often seen as a place that "lacks diversity." But it has a large Asian population and good representation of Asian nationalities, a sizeable East African population and surprisingly high number born in the FSU for a city not known for having European ethnic communities. The south King County suburbs in particular look very diverse.

I'm pretty sure Seattle had Scandinavian ethnic communities not so long ago. I remember seeing a supermarket that was flying Swedish, Norwegian and Danish flags and I think that was in 2017.

[mhays]

Probably in Ballard, which was originally a separate town. There are still remnants of the Scandinavian past, but they've been fading for several decades and are now easy to miss.

[Docere]

Seattle was quite Scandinavian but not really "white ethnic" or Eastern European so that's why the size of the FSU-born population is a bit surprising.

[Docere]

Interesting that Atlanta is pretty close to Boston in terms of Caribbean immigrants, though obviously Boston's smaller Black population is more immigrant than Atlanta's.

I guess it being the Black mecca attracts Caribbean immigrants too - though many may be moving there from New York or Florida rather than directly.

[Docere]

2018 data for London - unfortunately not broken down regionally and no countries listed if less than 10,000, so clustered what they had together to get the best sense of the composition of the foreign-born population together:


Foreign born 3,237,000

European 1,047,000

South Asian 662,000

African 478,000

Middle Eastern 209,000

East Asian 176,000

Latin American 86,000

Caribbean 75,000 (Jamaican only)

SOURCE: https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/country-of-birth

[tech12]

Originally Posted by Docere

MSAs, but added San Francisco and San Jose MSAs together.

You're leaving out some big chunks of the Bay Area in that case. If you're combining SF and SJ, then the Vallejo, Santa Rosa, and Napa MSAs should also be included IMO, which have a combined 1.1 million residents and a significant amount of immigrants from Latin America. Though i can understand leaving out places like Stockton and Santa Cruz, which have their own identity despite being part of the CSA.

[muppet]

Docere if you want to do the regional (MSA/CSA) version for London rather than city proper, you can add in South East England (counties south and west of the city) and East of England (north and east) to the count, if you can find it. Together with Greater London (city proper) they qualify as the London Region

[muppet]

In terms of city proper London pipped all other cities with 3.35 million foreign born back in the day... (thanks to nito)






- however since Brexit it's gone down to 3.2 milllion as many EU citizens have headed home, on par with NYC (city proper). I'd hazard since the pandemic it's gone down even further.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by muppet

In terms of city proper London pipped all other cities with 3.35 million foreign born back in the day... (thanks to nito)






- however since Brexit it's gone down to 3.2 milllion as many EU citizens have headed home, on par with NYC (city proper). I'd hazard since the pandemic it's gone down even further.

London counting EU citizens as foreign-born seems even more disingenuous than a U.S. city factoring Canadians as foreign-born.

[Crawford]

Well London's foreign-born counts will go up shortly when the SNP wins an independent Scotland.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

London counting EU citizens as foreign-born seems even more disingenuous than a U.S. city factoring Canadians as foreign-born.

Have you been to continental Europe -you do get they are different countries right? Different languages, cultures, histories, cuisine, dress, political systems, laws, weather, flora and landscapes, who've spent a long, long time warring with each other to make themselves who they are. This is the Old World, where millennia of histories, war and culture defines each people, for good and bad.

You even get differences within a country -for example in the UK for the 68 million Brits in an area the size of Oregon, the accent changes on average every 25 miles in any direction, and don't forget we are made up of 4 previously independent cultures/ countries at constant war- hence the name United Kingdom.

3 out of the 4 countries in the UK are Celtic for starters (not Anglo-Saxon), in history and ethnicity. There's still a painful history -for example decades of anti-British terrorism and the fact in London the Irish were historically one of the most maligned minorities right until the Noughties, most likely to be homeless or die in police custody.




The same would apply to our immediate neighbours Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Italy etc, each still with successionist movements, that in the 19th Century would have had the large majority (for example up to 80% in say France) of their population speaking a slew of different first languages to their main one today. In other words, once you cross an official border the cultural difference becomes even more distinct, that the two countries spent millennia hammering out.


Before 20th Century language standardisation:


https://ontheworldmap.com/italy/map-...s-in-italy.jpg


http://www.gifex.com/images/0X0/2011...lects-1910.jpg

[muppet]

The difference between say the French and the Germans (let alone say, the Finns and the Greeks, or the Portuguese and Lithuanians) is literally on every conceivable level. Brits have more in common with Anglo-Saxon countries like the US and Australia than they do with say, the Belgians across the channel. This is one of the great pleasures of the continent- that in so small a space you get so many different cultures to dip in and out of, even in short distances.

The minute you walk into France, 25 miles away, it is very, very foreign. You don't understand a word and find you can't even read/ pronounce them, the food's completely different (with meals at different times), the buildings are in a different vernacular and materials, with completely different histories, the people look and dress different, read and watch media in a completely different cultural sphere, their immigrant communities source from different regions than back home, they even move differently at a different pace. The money's different, shops different, they drive on the wrong side and there's not a single brand you recognise unless it's a luxury fashion label. Weather's warmer, the flora more Mediterranean, the place even smells different. And don't get me started on the bathrooms, and how confusing that gets (seriously France, what the hell do you do in there?). Even the small things such as fonts, dog breeds, expressions, or how they pay, or what they find funny.


I mean if this feels foreign to a North American, it also does to say a Brit or German next door:

• Video Link



But also note how many of these border towns have aspects of the country next door (architecturally) due to border changes - Menton looks like it has a lot of Spanish vernacular, Colmar German, Annecy Italian, Chamonix Swiss, Mont St Michel English, Carantec Welsh (Bretons are Celtic), but with a French twist.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by muppet

Have you been to continental Europe -you do get they are different countries right? Different languages, cultures, histories, cuisine, dress, political systems, laws, weather, flora and landscapes, who've spent a long, long time warring with each other to make themselves who they are. This is the Old World, where millennia of histories, war and culture defines each people, for good and bad.

You could say the same thing about England and Scotland but they're still the same country, lol. The truth is that moving from Paris to London was as easy as moving from New York to Chicago. It's harder to move from Toronto to Philadelphia than it was to go from Amsterdam to Birmingham. London's foreign-born population with the EU countries mixed in is not an apples-to-apples comparison to New York's.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

London counting EU citizens as foreign-born seems even more disingenuous than a U.S. city factoring Canadians as foreign-born.

Canadians are foreign born. An Italian in London is a foreigner.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

Canadians are foreign born. An Italian in London is a foreigner.

Puerto Ricans aren't considered foreign-born when they move to New York City, despite coming from an autonomous island with a distinct culture and language.

My point is that the EU muddles the concept of foreign. Prior to the U.K. pulling out of the EU, it was just as easy for an Italian to relocate to London as it was for a New Yorker to move to Texas. EU member countries have a relationship that is analogous to U.S. states and territories.

[wwmiv]

1. Foreign has a variety of meanings...

2. The European Union is a supra-state NOT analogous at all to the federalized structure of the United States. For instance, the EU lacks a strong central executive, the EU lacks a strong preemption doctrine over its constituent states, which in combination with there not being an equivalent states rights doctrine enshrined in something comparable to a tenth amendment means that there is contested sovereignty over every issue (because those issues aren’t divided between the layers of government and given, issue by issue, to the layer of government which most properly should deal with that concern) with which the EU deliberative body deals, and all issues are repeatedly contested over all levels of government (supranational, national, subnational/regional, and local). So no policy ever ends up being settled and truly implemented EU-wide. The constituent states that agree with any given policy and wants to implement it are free to do so, but they aren’t by the process and structure itself guaranteed to do so. They also lack real monetary controls, which means the body is largely even more toothless at charting a singular course for all of its members.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Puerto Ricans aren't considered foreign-born when they move to New York City, despite coming from an autonomous island with a distinct culture and language.

My point is that the EU muddles the concept of foreign. Prior to the U.K. pulling out of the EU, it was just as easy for an Italian to relocate to London as it was for a New Yorker to move to Texas. EU member countries have a relationship that is analogous to U.S. states and territories.

But PR is part of the US while Italy and the UK are separate countries. Sure, "foreign born" doesn't tell a complete story but it's a pretty specific category; either you were born in the country you live in or not.

[ilcapo]

Stockholm Metro pop: 2 391 000
Foreign born total: 624 609 (26% of total pop)

Europe: 262 756
Africa: 75 118
North America: 17 305
South America: 36 665
Asia: 227 190

Unfortunately some distinctions such as Middle Eastern/North African/East Asian is not available. But the Asian numbers are largely middle eastern.