Great Lakes Cities

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Wigs

My anecdotal tidbit is my friend bought a small bungalow in one of the least desirable Buffalo suburbs last fall. He had to enter a bidding war and ended up paying over 20% over asking. We joke that after peaking in 1970, this suburb will finally show growth again with the 2030 US census.
I have one acquaintance that is looking to cash out of the city of Buffalo and move to Rochester for a bigger house because Buffalo has gotten more expensive.

Local realtors say out of towners are still moving to Buffalo. Whether it's for jobs at the booming Buffalo Niagara Medical campus, one of the many colleges/universities, M&T Bank (which has rapidly expanded to now a $200B Bank) or elsewhere.

Buffalo has really made a comeback and just hope they can sustain it.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I doubt it, as immigration laws are obviously nation-specific. It's no easier to move from Toronto to Buffalo as compared to Toronto to San Diego.

I wasn't thinking of people spilling over the border from Toronto into buffalo, but with its giant S.Asian population, I was thinking maybe some people who couldn't get into Canada, but did get into the US might have above average interest in buffalo to be close to Toronto relatives/friends.

And it may have nothing at all to do with it. Just thinking out loud about "why buffalo?".

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Just thinking out loud about "why buffalo?".

Highly active and coordinated refugee resettlement programs exist in Buffalo, Erie, and Akron from what I know. These places are very cheap, so for immigrants who want to start a business, buy a home, create stable life for themselves/their family, they can actually do it in cities like this.

They can actually establish their own neighborhoods relatively easily in long-blighted areas, and recruit more of their people to move there.

[Crawford]

I think a lot of migration patterns are kinda random. Why Hamtramck? Probably some dude from the Bronx or Queens moved there, spread the word to his half-dozen cousins, word got out that the real estate costs like 10% of the Outer Boroughs, and in a few years, there was a real Bengali community.

[benp]

Originally Posted by edale

What's driving all the Bengladeshi/South Asian migration to Buffalo? If there wasn't much of a community there before, what is the draw?

It has been a gradual process, that took off in the last 10 years or so as Bangladeshi and other South Asians in Queens and the Bronx were getting priced out of owning homes, and saw opportunities for really cheap housing in some of Buffalo's East Side neighborhoods, and eventually were buying everything priced low that hit the market, regardless of condition, and fixing them up to live in. Availability and prices have since risen, but its still cheaper than in NYC.

My guess as to why the East Side specifically is that there was a very large Mosque and school founded there in the 1990s (from a former Polish Catholic Cathedral) that became quite well known among the Muslim community, and became a draw for students and residents from all over the US. Other mosques and schools followed. About 20 years ago I also recall an effort by some local Pakistani physicians and other professionals to create a "Crescent Village" in the areas around the mosque to include homes for all incomes, which wasn't fully realized, but the area continued to draw lower income South Asian Muslims. Over time, a few Bangladeshi from NYC began relocating to the area, opening businesses, and spreading the word about opportunities in Buffalo. Because so much of the Broadway-Fillmore area housing no longer existed, new arrivals began expanding to adjacent neighborhoods up Fillmore and Bailey Avenue toward the NE part of the city into better and more complete neighborhoods.

The Bangladeshi community here seems to be very well organized and tied in, has a thriving online newspaper, produces youtube videos extolling the advantages of Buffalo, and has been building extensive political ties with the city government, way more community engagement than any other local immigrant community from the last 30 years has had, probably because they are not arriving here with empty wallets. They are not a refugee community, which sometimes stop growing and scatter over time, but are US residents seemingly moving here to stay for the long run based on their real estate purchases and activities.

And, for clarity, the Bangladeshi are not the only Muslim community in Buffalo, but is certainly the fastest growing one at this time. For example, I believe Arabic is still the second most common foreign language spoken in Buffalo Public Schools after Spanish.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I wasn't thinking of people spilling over the border from Toronto into buffalo, but with its giant S.Asian population, I was thinking maybe some people who couldn't get into Canada, but did get into the US might have above average interest in buffalo to be close to Toronto relatives/friends.

And it may have nothing at all to do with it. Just thinking out loud about "why buffalo?".

It's NYC centric. A lot of Bangladeshis in NY were like, why are we working our asses off to rent an apartment? When we can buy actual single family homes with a yard in Buffalo.

article from 2015
Bangladeshis transforming Buffalo one block at a time
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/b...752f88f81.html

article from 2019 (Crawford will appreciate the Hamtramck comparison)
Bangladeshis chase their 'American Dream' in Buffalo
https://en.banglatribune.com/others/...rican-Dream-in

This is not the first time Bangladeshi immigrants have moved from New York City in search of a cheaper and better lifestyle. Hamtramck in Michigan is now home to one of the largest Bangladeshi communities in the US and even has a mural dedicated to Bangladesh.
Comparing Hamtramck with Buffalo, Mr Rahman says: “Buffalo is for beginners. If you have nothing in your pocket, you can still make a start here.”
He hopes that in the next five years, the area will see a major transformation. A lot of Bangladeshis have bought the abandoned commercial buildings and are planning garment stores, professional services, retail shops and as their numbers grow it will only add to the business.

Originally Posted by JManc

Buffalo has really made a comeback and just hope they can sustain it.

It's been a long time in the works.
I hope so too.

did you see benp's streetview before/after comparisons?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bpawli...57718710931096

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I wasn't thinking of people spilling over the border from Toronto into buffalo, but with its giant S.Asian population, I was thinking maybe some people who couldn't get into Canada, but did get into the US might have above average interest in buffalo to be close to Toronto relatives/friends.

And it may have nothing at all to do with it. Just thinking out loud about "why buffalo?".

There could be something to that. Windsor has one of the highest proportions of Arabs in Canada and many of them have family across the river in Dearborn.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Highly active and coordinated refugee resettlement programs exist in Buffalo, Erie, and Akron from what I know. These places are very cheap, so for immigrants who want to start a business, buy a home, create stable life for themselves/their family, they can actually do it in cities like this.

They can actually establish their own neighborhoods relatively easily in long-blighted areas, and recruit more of their people to move there.

Yeah, this is how a number of ethnic communities have taken root since the 1960s.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Wigs

It's NYC centric. A lot of Bangladeshis in NY were like, why are we working our asses off to rent an apartment? When we can buy actual single family homes with a yard in Buffalo.

article from 2015
Bangladeshis transforming Buffalo one block at a time
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/b...752f88f81.html

article from 2019 (Crawford will appreciate the Hamtramck comparison)
Bangladeshis chase their 'American Dream' in Buffalo
https://en.banglatribune.com/others/...rican-Dream-in





It's been a long time in the works.
I hope so too.

did you see benp's streetview before/after comparisons?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bpawli...57718710931096

Buffalo seems a bit far from NYC for this reason, though. There are a number of cheap cities in the northeast corridor that are much closer to NYC.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Buffalo seems a bit far from NYC for this reason, though.

I guess because they are in the same state, I've always thought that buffalo and NYC are lot closer than they really are.

Google maps says a drive from NYC to buffalo is 6.5 hours.

That's a longer drive than from Chicago all the way up to the twin cities!

I though it was more like 3.5 - 4 hours. I was way off.

[Crawford]

Buffalo is nearly halfway between NYC and Chicago. It isn't really anywhere near NYC or the eastern seaboard.

Immigrant communities don't need proximity. If the South Asians are making it to Hamtramck, no reason they can't make it to Western NY.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Immigrant communities don't need proximity.

They don't need it, but it can help.

Afterall, it's not just a coincidence that Milwaukee is the 2nd most Latino metro area in the Midwest.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I guess because they are in the same state, I've always thought that buffalo and NYC are lot closer than they really are.

Google maps says a drive from NYC is 6.5 hours.

That's a longer drive than from Chicago all the way up to the twin cities!

I though it was more like 3.5 - 4 hours. I was way off.

Yeah, Buffalo is a world away from NYC. However, the fact that it and Rochester, and all of WNY are still in the same state as NYC does create a connection for migration for whatever reason.

I guess there is less of a barrier for immigrant groups to move, whether it's real or psychological, the same way it is for natives. It just seems easier to move within the state versus moving to another, even if the other state is closer.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I guess because they are in the same state, I've always thought that buffalo and NYC are lot closer than they really are.

Google maps says a drive from NYC is 6.5 hours.

That's a longer drive than from Chicago all the way up to the twin cities!

I though it was more like 3.5 - 4 hours. I was way off.

There's always been a pretty substantial migration stream between Upstate NY and NYC. Upstate cities like Buffalo and Rochester, for example, have lots of Puerto Ricans and black West Indians, even though these groups have mostly not spread into relatively nearby areas like Western PA.

[Docere]

Buffalo mayor Byron Brown is from NYC.

[Crawford]

Might partially be related to SUNYs and higher education. Someone from Long Island might attend SUNY Buffalo or wherever and stay in the area, so there's a more obvious relationship than with a closer area in say MA or PA or MD.

Also, it's probably a size thing. Just like every western state seems to have people from the LA area, practically every eastern state seems to have people from the NYC area.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Also, it's probably a size thing. Just like every western state seems to have people from the LA area, practically every eastern state seems to have people from the NYC area.

The demographic impact of NYC (mostly Latino migrants) is really transforming nearly every smaller city in South-Central PA and Northeast PA, but it hasn't really worked its way into the mountainous middle or west of the state yet.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, Buffalo is a world away from NYC. However, the fact that it and Rochester, and all of WNY are still in the same state as NYC does create a connection for migration for whatever reason.

I guess there is less of a barrier for immigrant groups to move, whether it's real or psychological, the same way it is for natives. It just seems easier to move within the state versus moving to another, even if the other state is closer.

I guess if family members are receiving benefits from the state of New York then that could be incentive to choose Buffalo. I have immigrant friends with elderly parents that followed them to NYC. The parents receive generous benefits from the state that they would not be eligible for if they moved across state lines.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There's always been a pretty substantial migration stream between Upstate NY and NYC. Upstate cities like Buffalo and Rochester, for example, have lots of Puerto Ricans and black West Indians, even though these groups have mostly not spread into relatively nearby areas like Western PA.

Originally Posted by eschaton

The demographic impact of NYC (mostly Latino migrants) is really transforming nearly every smaller city in South-Central PA and Northeast PA, but it hasn't really worked its way into the mountainous middle or west of the state yet.

Not like smaller eastern PA cities are now, but Erie PA has long had a Latino population. Puerto Ricans (primarily hailing from NYC area) is the largest segment -- probably 60% of the Hispanic population. Within the city limits and bordering municipalities, the Hispanic population is probably around 15%. And this isn't new... Erie has had a PR Day parade since I was a little kid... and I'm old.

[Antares41]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I guess because they are in the same state, I've always thought that buffalo and NYC are lot closer than they really are.

Google maps says a drive from NYC to buffalo is 6.5 hours.

That's a longer drive than from Chicago all the way up to the twin cities!

I though it was more like 3.5 - 4 hours. I was way off.

It would be around 5 to 5.5 hrs. Buffalo to NYC if there was a more direct route. NYS is a weirdly shape state, sort of like a "T" on its side. I drive from Buffalo to NYC monthly to visit my mom. The fastest route takes you through NE Pa and Northern NJ. Even if you make good time, getting across the GW bridge during the busiest time of day could still add almost an hour easy, I kid you not.