Great Lakes Cities

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ what's interesting is that Chicagoland's very first expressway was the Edens (now a part of I-94), which opened in 1951 and serves all of the suburbs of the ritzy northshore.

However, the builders knew not to ram it right through the hearts of the communities, instead building it a couple miles west through a lesser developed corridor (at the time) that mostly paralleled the Skokie valley ROW of old NorthShore RR interurban line that went up to Milwaukee.

Yup - urban expressway projects ran into issues when they started trying to rip up wealthy neighbourhoods. Running close by wasn't as much of a problem - large scale demolition is where they hit resistance.

Doing the same in low-income neighbourhoods happened as those areas didn't have the time or resources to push back against the expropriations. The wealthy areas did.

Most cities had plans for urban expressways through both poor and rich areas, with the poor areas getting built since it was both easier politically and cheaper (lower land costs). Very few urban expressways got built through wealthy areas.

In Toronto's case, it's two urban freeways were largely built through industrial and natural areas, avoiding neighbourhoods.. The planners of the time made a "mistake", if you could call it that, of trying to build their first urban expressway through one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.. didn't work out too well for them. Even then, they managed to build the first part of it through a working class area no problem. The southern half through the wealthy area is what gave them problems. If Toronto had instead opted to build the Scarborough Expressway or Hwy 400 extension first instead of the Spadina Expressway, both of which would have run through working class areas, the expressway system probably would have been a lot larger today.


Related - I have this map of cancelled Cleveland Highways saved on my computer which I always thought was interesting. The as-built network is a bit different, but the corridors generally remain similar. You can see I490 extend eastwards into Shaker Heights where it would have terminated at a north-south freeway running from Maple Heights up to around I90 and E 185th St. There is also another east-west freeway running from Downtown roughly along US-322, and a north-south corridor going from Maple Heights to the second east-west corridor via the University area. Overall it's an insanely dense freeway network which is really overkill even by American standards - the only one of these unbuilt highways which would have been even half-way useful would have been a corridor connecting downtown to I271 to the east.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yup - urban expressway projects ran into issues when they started trying to rip up wealthy neighbourhoods. Running close by wasn't as much of a problem - large scale demolition is where they hit resistance.

Doing the same in low-income neighbourhoods happened as those areas didn't have the time or resources to push back against the expropriations. The wealthy areas did.

Most cities had plans for urban expressways through both poor and rich areas, with the poor areas getting built since it was both easier politically and cheaper (lower land costs). Very few urban expressways got built through wealthy areas.

In Toronto's case, it's two urban freeways were largely built through industrial and natural areas, avoiding neighbourhoods.. The planners of the time made a "mistake", if you could call it that, of trying to build their first urban expressway through one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.. didn't work out too well for them. Even then, they managed to build the first part of it through a working class area no problem. The southern half through the wealthy area is what gave them problems. If Toronto had instead opted to build the Scarborough Expressway or Hwy 400 extension first instead of the Spadina Expressway, both of which would have run through working class areas, the expressway system probably would have been a lot larger today.


Related - I have this map of cancelled Cleveland Highways saved on my computer which I always thought was interesting. The as-built network is a bit different, but the corridors generally remain similar. You can see I490 extend eastwards into Shaker Heights where it would have terminated at a north-south freeway running from Maple Heights up to around I90 and E 185th St. There is also another east-west freeway running from Downtown roughly along US-322, and a north-south corridor going from Maple Heights to downtown via the University area.

One of the few freeway projects to get squashed in Metro Detroit, or maybe even the only one, was the I-275 through the lakes region of Oakland County in the late 70s. The plan was to run the I-275 bypass from northern Monroe County to Flint, allowing Flint-Toledo traffic to bypass Detroit. With I-75 already existing, it was a pretty dumb idea, and another example of MDOT running amok. US-23 through Ann Arbor also already functioned as a bypass for Flint-Toledo traffic. The project created strange bedfellows between suburban interest groups and the Detroit city government, which joined forces to kill the rest of the spur being completed through to Flint.

[pj3000]

This has been in the works for a long time and is set to become the third National Marine Sanctuary on the Great Lakes. It would be pretty cool to see more of these designations throughout the Lakes to really help promote the rich natural and maritime cultural histories of the Great Lakes cities.

There are existing sanctuaries on Lake Michigan, north of Milwaukee and on Lake Huron https://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/wisconsin/, at Thunder Bay https://thunderbay.noaa.gov/visit/. A large one is currently proposed for eastern Lake Ontario https://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/lake-ontario/... anyone know of others in the works?

These Great Lakes sanctuaries have all grown out of intentions to preserve and promote the many shipwrecks beneath the surface, of which Lake Erie potentially has the greatest density and diversity of them on the planet, due to its relatively small size, high amount of traffic dating from the early decades of the 1820s, and unpredictable violent nature.

PROPOSED DESIGNATION OF LAKE ERIE QUADRANGLENATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY

https://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/lake-erie/

- NOAA's Office of National Marine Sanctuaries is considering designating a new national marine sanctuary in Lake Erie, adjacent to Pennsylvania

- Erie County, Pennsylvania submitted a nomination in 2015, and NOAA is now considering sanctuary designation to protect the region's maritime heritage resources, including a nationally significant collection of shipwrecks.

- The proposed Lake Erie Quadrangle National Marine Sanctuary would encompass approximately 740 square miles of Pennsylvania's Lake Erie waters, from the shoreline to the Canadian border.

- The approximately 75 miles of proposed sanctuary shoreline along Erie County contain six townships, two boroughs, and the city of Erie. The nomination proposes to exclude the Port of Erie from the sanctuary boundaries to ensure compatible use with shipping and other commercial activities.

Area proposed for Lake Erie Quadrangle National Marine Sanctuary. Credit: NOAA

- This area represents a historically and culturally rich region where the long relationship between human activity and the maritime environment has created meaning and a sense of place, which is expressed and preserved in a wide variety of maritime cultural resources, from sacred places and cultural practices, to lighthouses and historic shipwrecks. Together, these tangible and intangible elements form a rich maritime cultural landscape.

- Lake Erie hosted one of the busiest inland waterways of the mid-19th century.

- Pennsylvania supported the Great Lakes' largest commercial fishing fleet during the 19th century, some of the earliest shipbuilding on the Great Lakes, and major naval shipyards during the War of 1812.

Built in 1889, the Philip D. Armour foundered in a gale while being towed on Nov. 13, 1915, northwest of Presque Isle Light, Lake Erie. Enroute from Ashtabula, Ohio, to Welland, Ontario, with a cargo of coal, the wooden barge and former steamer drifted onto a shoal and sank. Credit: Kenneth Thro Collection at University of Wisconsin-Superior (Thunder Bay Research Collection)

- Nearly every type of vessel that operated on the Great Lakes during the 19th and 20th centuries is represented in the area being considered for sanctuary designation.

- Based on historical records, 196 vessels may have sunk within the Pennsylvania waters of Lake Erie, and 35 of these shipwrecks have been identified.

- The known shipwrecks span from the 1838 steamboat Chesapeake to speedboats, tugs, barges, and workboats lost before 1940. The collection includes schooners, brigs, and barks; barges and schooner barges; dredges and sand suckers; fishing tugs and trawlers; and sidewheel steamboats and propellers.

- This area also includes the potential for submerged prehistoric sites and historic properties that may be of religious and cultural significance to Indigenous nations and tribes.

The U.S. Brig Niagara, home-ported in Erie, Pennsylvania, is a reconstruction of Oliver Hazard Perry's relief flagship during the Battle of Lake Erie. Credit: VisitErie


Lake Erie along Pennsylvania's shoreline on its way to becoming national marine sanctuary

https://www.glc.org/dailynews/20230519-erie-sanctuary
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS MAY 20, 2023

President Joe Biden's administration took the first step Thursday toward designating the Pennsylvania-owned section of Lake Erie as the state's first national marine sanctuary.

A formal designation could take several years, and it wouldn't change existing regulations around the use of the lake. The announcement sets up a public comment period before the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration writes a draft plan for the sanctuary.

The designation would apply to an approximately 740-square-mile area of water off Pennsylvania's 75 mile-long shoreline. It would attract federal funding to help find and preserve shipwrecks in the lake and boost education and outreach around the area's history.

That history includes being home to indigenous people who once lived there, its role as a hub on the Underground Railroad, and a maritime history as hosting the nation's largest fleet of steamboats before the Civil War. The area possibly includes scores of yet-to-be-discovered shipwrecks, according to NOAA.

There are 35 known shipwrecks in the area, from pre-Civil War steamboats to speedboats, tugs, barges and workboats lost before 1940, the agency said.

There are two other national marine sanctuaries in the Great Lakes and a third in Lake Ontario nearing designation, all focused on shipwrecks. There are 15 total national marine sanctuaries, some of which focus on preserving endangered aquatic life, as well as two marine national monuments.

Erie County first requested the designation in 2015.

[lio45]

My classifieds feed decided that land on Lake Erie would interest me for some reason.

Looks clean. Also, isn't it cheap for waterfront property...?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...7076503796445/

[mrnyc]

dubz