China High Speed Rail

[Onn]

China’s High-Speed Rail, Highly Suspect

Mar. 2 2011
Tim Ferguson
Forbes

May we please have a station stop in the slavering over the Chinese high-speed rail program?

China itself is not so enamored, based on the crackdown on officials involved. Here’s the latest from the South China Morning Post on the dismissal of the nation’s Railways Minister and the engineer in charge of the system’s R&D. Seems there were “severe violations of discipline,” which is usually code for corruption. The larger issue with the vast (16,000 kilometers planned by 2020) endeavor is that it isn’t, in fact, so appropriate to China’s needs. Rather, it may be another symptom of a bubble economy in which vast sums are misspent on underutilized assets. (Hmmm…like in the financial whirl of America’s “cowboy capitalism”!)

“The costs are raising worries over financing,” the SCMP reports. “Major state-owned railway and rail car building companies with shares listed in Hong Kong and Shanghai [see China Railway Construction Corp., China Railway Engineering Corp. and subsidiaries ] are relying on bonds and bank loans to finance projects, with onerous repayment obligations that may be difficult to meet given the revenue projections for many projects.” It all stems from the state and the railways ministry has amassed $300 billion in debt.

Turns out that even with ticket prices kept at levels that may please the adoring transit enthusiasts from abroad, the fares are too expensive to satisfy enough Chinese patrons. Also, a rail line might stop well short of a central business district. (Hmmm…perhaps to seed someone’s land development nearby?)

The breakneck pace of the construction, which also has wowed Westerners, leads to concern about safety and durability of the lines and equipment. Considering allegations that much Chinese rail technology has been lifted from the likes of Mitsubishi Kawasaki Heavy and Siemens, which have sought their own deals there, this may reflect shortcuts in use of materials and labor more than in design. Perhaps such will come out in the probes that Beijing is undertaking.

The point of all this muck is not that trains are inherently a deficient way to move people between (or in) metropolitan areas. They can be very effective at that, at speeds that are appropriate to cost, and especially when tracks can be laid with minimal political holdup. But sometimes politics, and even more so the financial restaints of marketplace, can curb the massive misallocation of resources that is a hallmark of top-down systems such as in Communist China. To the degree that high-speed rail or other huge public works are undertaken in the U.S. without adequate scrutiny and in response to boosterism from self-interested parties, they are susceptible to the same flaws.

http://blogs.forbes.com/timferguson/...ighly-suspect/

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Onn

http://blogs.forbes.com/timferguson/...ighly-suspect/

This paragraph reads, to me, like he copied it directly from some anti-Communist Chinese literature, because the phrasing and cadence seems strangely similar to the way English written by the Chinese friends looks. I'm not saying it is, but the similarity was striking and a bit suspicious when I read it.

The point of all this muck is not that trains are inherently a deficient way to move people between (or in) metropolitan areas. They can be very effective at that, at speeds that are appropriate to cost, and especially when tracks can be laid with minimal political holdup. But sometimes politics, and even more so the financial restaints of marketplace, can curb the massive misallocation of resources that is a hallmark of top-down systems such as in Communist China. To the degree that high-speed rail or other huge public works are undertaken in the U.S. without adequate scrutiny and in response to boosterism from self-interested parties, they are susceptible to the same flaws.

[emathias]

Of course before China's High-Speed Rail, before their non-HSR modernization, they ran steam engines.

I thought maybe some of you might be interested in a series their English-language channel made called "Goodbye, Steam Locomotives." They're filmed in Chinese, but have English subtitles.

Goodbye, Steam Locomotive Part 1
Goodbye, Steam Locomotive Part 2
Goodbye, Steam Locomotive Part 3
Goodbye, Steam Locomotive Part 4
Goodbye, Steam Locomotive Part 5

And about the engineers:

Steam Engineers, Part 1
Steam Engineers, Part 2

[Beta_Magellan]

Originally Posted by Onn

http://blogs.forbes.com/timferguson/...ighly-suspect/

May we please have a station stop in the slavering over the Chinese high-speed rail program?

Okay, but I’ll keep slavering over the French, Spanish, and Japanese systems.

[Godwindaniel]

Basically china and Japan are popular for these type of bullet trains. These trains are faster and luxurious than other trains.

__________________________________
gps tracking | gps fleet tracking

[Fabb]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a50fa362-557...print=yes.html

Fresh blow for China’s high-speed railway
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing

Published: March 23 2011 23:02

Investigators have found evidence that nearly $30m of funds budgeted for China’s Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line was misappropriated last year, in another blow to the country’s scandal-plagued high-speed rail sector.

China’s state audit office said on Wednesday it had identified numerous cases of embezzlement and other irregularities from just a three-month period of construction on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed line last year and has passed the cases on to judicial authorities for formal investigation.

China’s railway minister and the rail ministry’s deputy chief engineer were both removed from their positions last month for “severe disciplinary violations” – an allegation that usually results in criminal charges for corruption.

The former minister, Liu Zhijun, is the most senior government official to be implicated in corruption in the past five years and his downfall has raised doubts about the future of the hugely ambitious high-speed rail expansion plans he championed.

Neither Mr Liu nor Zhang Shuguang, the former deputy chief engineer at the rail ministry, have been named in connection with the state auditor’s investigation into the 1,318km, $33bn Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail project, which is scheduled to open to the public next year.

The line is the longest and most expensive high-speed rail project in the country but it has been dogged by scandals and controversies and singled out in previous state audits for financial “irregularities”.

In its latest report the auditor also cited numerous cases of flawed procurement procedures, overcharging, unexplained costs and fake receipts related to the project.

When completed, the railway should reduce travel time between the two cities from about 10 hours now to four hours.

China’s top leaders had already ordered a rethink of the country’s plans before the removal of the rail minister last month but following his dismissal the review has intensified, say industry analysts and Chinese media reports.

China has about 17,000km of high-speed railway built or under construction, by far the longest network in the world, and officials have said projects that have started will not be affected by the review.

The government has said it plans to spend nearly $130bn this year on railway construction and this plan is unlikely to change, according to officials at China Railway Construction, builder of more than half the country’s railroads.

But future expansion and proposed lines will be scrutinised and possibly cancelled.

An intense safety review of all projects is under way because of fears that corruption and the speed with which the network has been built will result in poor quality tracks that are meant to carry trains travelling at up to 380km/h.

[northbay]

China slows down showcase bullet trains

By JOE McDONALD
Thu Apr 14, 4:07 pm ET

BEIJING – China is slowing down its bullet trains following complaints the showcase system is dangerously fast and too expensive.

High-speed rail is a national prestige project aimed at showing off China's technological prowess and rising wealth while linking together its far-flung regions. That makes any decision to scale it back politically sensitive.

The fastest routes will be cut from 350 kph (220 mph) to 300 kph (190 mph) as of July 1, railway minister Sheng Guangzu told the Communist Party newspaper People's Daily. Sheng was appointed in February after his predecessor was fired amid a graft probe.

"This will offer more safety," Sheng said. "At the same time, this will allow more variation in ticket prices based on market principles."

The minister gave no indication whether Beijing might scale back ambitious expansion plans that call for adding thousands of miles (kilometers) of high-speed routes.

....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20...train_travails

[Fabb]

http://www.ausbt.com.au/high-speed-c...pen-next-month

Final trials have begun on the high-speed railway line between Beijing and Shanghai ahead of the official launch of China's own 'bullet train' in late June.

Trains barreling along the 1,318 kilometre link completed the journey in just under five hours, although the test runs of the 16 carriage train skipped most of the 24 stations between the two mega-cities on the route.

The service will run from the new Beijing South station, just off the south second ring road and with its own station on Beijing's subway line 4, to Shanghai's new Hongqiao station, with connections to lines 2, 5 and 10 of the Shanghai Metro.
Several changes have been made to the train in recent months.
The top speed has been reduced to 300km/h from the previously-promised 380km/h due to concerns over both safety and cost.
(...)

Chinese authorities say the daily schedule will feature three services. The fastest and most expensive will run will between stop only once at Nanjing.
A second service will stop at seven provincial capital cities for a total travel time of five and a half hours. The 'slowest' train will stop at all 24 stations along the route, and travel at 250km/h instead of 300km/h, but will be accompanied by cheaper fares than the super-express service.

The 220.9 billion yuan (A$32billion) line will be the longest and most expensive high-speed rail connection in the world, and will carry an estimated 160 million passengers a year.

[pesto]

5 1/2 hrs. vs. 1:50 by air?

[The Chemist]

^Fastest service will be under 5 hours. And without having to deal with the higher cost of Airport express service in Beijing and not having to deal with airport security/check in/baggage collection, this becomes a pretty attractive alternative.

[mthd]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

^Fastest service will be under 5 hours. And without having to deal with the higher cost of Airport express service in Beijing and not having to deal with airport security/check in/baggage collection, this becomes a pretty attractive alternative.

i'm not so sure about this.... it will depend greatly on the stations and their locations.

i spend a lot of time in china, in beijing, shanghai, and many other lesser cities (dalian, fuzhou, wuxi, chengdu, guangzhou) and i LOVE high speed rail. yet every time i try and find a reasonable way to use it, it doesn't seem to work out. i know the system is new and still rapidly growing, but i do wonder about the distances between some of china's major cities and the particular placement of the stations.

shanghai hongqiao to wuxi, for example, is nice and short at 1:10 or so, but my destinations on either end are never near hongqiao or the wuxi station.

shanghai to fuzhou isn't HSR yet, nor is beijing to dalian, and even when shanghai to beijing opens at 4-5 hours flying will still be faster.

[M II A II R II K]

Full Steam Ahead For China's Rail Links Abroad?


http://www.npr.org/2011/06/14/137111...l-links-abroad

After a generation of absorbing foreign capital and technology, China is now beginning to export them. It has found the export of infrastructure especially profitable, both economically and politically. China is building high-speed rail links in Turkey, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, and has expressed interest in bidding for projects in the United States. China's first project is to link itself to its Southeast Asian neighbors, so that rail travelers may soon be able to traverse Asia from China to Singapore in a day.

- The plan is for trains to make their first stop outside China in the border town of Boten in northern Laos. The zone's vice governor, Vixay Homsombath, is already counting the renminbi, or Chinese currency, pouring into the local economy. "Of course if the people come here, they should sleep in the hotel and eat here, and we can sell the food," he predicts while sitting at a restaurant on the town's main drag. "We can get the money from the hotel's rent and guest house rent."

- Right now, Boten is a ghost town. Vixay is hopeful that the trains will bring back the boom times, as well as the gamblers, tourists and workers who drifted away when the zone's casinos shut down last year after a string of gambling-related murders.

- Laos is one of Asia's poorest countries. Its current railway system stretches for just two miles — enough to get from Vientiane over the Mekong River and into Thailand. Houmpheng says the Chinese-built railway can help the country overcome its isolation. "Laos has a vision of, as you know, transforming the landlocked country of Laos to the land-linked country."

....

[M II A II R II K]

• Video Link

[sytico]

I think that China being a big place need a HSR system. People will be able to spend less time travelling to and fro and be able to use their time more effectively.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by sytico

I think that China being a big place need a HSR system. People will be able to spend less time travelling to and fro and be able to use their time more effectively.

Yes, it will save the time. How about increase more speed from 200mph to 400mph? It will reduced the hrs from 5 to 2.5 hours.

[Mr Downtown]

Caixin Weekly, 4 April 2011 reports:

Two months after its February 2010 opening, the high-speed Beijing-Fuzhou [sic] quietly closed for a lack of passengers. Reports said not a single seat was booked during the 10 days before the decision to scrap the 2,058-kilometer line.

This report is hard to believe. Can someone clarify?

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Caixin Weekly, 4 April 2011 reports:

Two months after its February 2010 opening, the high-speed Beijing-Fuzhou [sic] quietly closed for a lack of passengers. Reports said not a single seat was booked during the 10 days before the decision to scrap the 2,058-kilometer line.

This report is hard to believe. Can someone clarify?

Not sure where they're getting their information, considering the Beijing-Fuzhou HSR is under construction now and won't open until 2014!

[Mr Downtown]

^Is there any line that has been "quietly closed?"

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

^Is there any line that has been "quietly closed?"

Not to my knowledge. HSR in China is very popular - every time I've ever been on an HSR train here, the train has been very close to full. I have a hard time believing that there'd ever be a route that was so unpopular they'd close it.

[schwerve]

One of the benefits of HSR which isn't talked up enough is that it keeps airfare down as well. That graph is the cost of an economy seat between Shanghai and Beijing before and after the opening of their HSR.

Via Center for Asia Pacific Aviation