PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 1137

skyhigh07 · #**22721** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 6:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Are you originally from California?

Yes, sort of. But have lived all over. I keep forgetting that people don’t use “the” for freeways/highways here lol.

PurpleWhiteOut · #**22722** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 6:59 PM**

Anyway, in development news, not that Powelton Village is a historic district, the project for 34th and Hamilton got a revised design that I think looks fantastic.

http://www.rising.realestate/15-unit...oric-district/

BroadandMarket · #**22723** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 7:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The 95 and 676 were mistakes. The 76 is surprisingly good urbanism as it didn’t really destroy or disrupt the city’s existing fabric.

76 ruined a big portion of West Fairmount park for tranquility and connectivity. Fairmount Park roads like Belmont and Montgomery have basically become busy traffic to get to and from 76. And the park got tons of ugly highway intersections and overpasses like these covered in trash and debris:

A couple of years ago there were plans to connect under 76 to reconnect the park to the river but nothing ever came from it.
https://www.design.upenn.edu/sites/d...rint_draft.pdf

TempleGuy1000 · #**22724** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 7:15 PM**

the whole area near the highway, park, and zoo is such a goddamn embarrassment. Truly shows how little regional "leaders" actually care.

ScreamShatter · #**22725** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Anyway, in development news, not that Powelton Village is a historic district, the project for 34th and Hamilton got a revised design that I think looks fantastic.

http://www.rising.realestate/15-unit...oric-district/

Would love to see more designs like this through the city.

mcgrath618 · #**22726** Posted **Dec 5, 2022, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Anyway, in development news, not that Powelton Village is a historic district, the project for 34th and Hamilton got a revised design that I think looks fantastic.

http://www.rising.realestate/15-unit...oric-district/

B...but I thought the Historic district was going to ruin development in the area??? Where's the aluminum siding?

Jayfar · #**22727** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 12:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Anyway, in development news, not that Powelton Village is a historic district, the project for 34th and Hamilton got a revised design that I think looks fantastic.

http://www.rising.realestate/15-unit...oric-district/

I like the revision, but it’s getting mixed reviews in a discussion over at P.I.C.H. from folks more knowledgeable than me about proper architectural considerations: ;-) https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...4383708516925/

TonyTone · #**22728** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 12:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

You're kidding, right? 676 seems like it's been a huge scar on center city for as long as I've lived here. Compared to any other sections of center city, the blocks adjacent to 676 tend to be much more run down and cluttered with surface parking lots. It's only really in the past 5 to 10 years that development pressure has finally started pushing for more development around Vine, but go a few blocks north or south of the highway and you'll still much nicer neighborhoods than the blocks immediately adjacent to it.

As for the neighborhoods around 95, hard to say, but those neighborhoods are also close to the river which counts for something.

I can agree that 676 stifled the growth of Chinatown, and acres of land that could have been used for more skyscrapers and development, however for the most part Vine St has good bones compared to a lot of other part of the city. I would 100% live along Vine St.

I can agree with you that east of broad 676 is more warehouse, but I think that has more to do with the riverfront past being more shipyard kinda vibes so it stuck with that area as well, now we see that super block of warehouses between 5th and 2nd getting developed that area will now be more like west of broad which is a lot of housing and commercial business.

Look at 95 in the middle of Wilmington, the whole stretch destroyed that city, and it's just like the design of 676 just a smaller version. Philly has it very well when it comes to 676 thats why I said the most expensive real estate because the parkway and adjacent area is the most expensive in the city, however that may be because it was developed more 676 was even thought of so the destruction was less, compared to Wilmington were it never got the chance to develop out of the 50's where as 676 didn't get finished till the late 70's - 80's? so Liberty one and the parkway were well inbound and already established.

I am 100% for the full capping and tunneling of 95/676 I just though tit was interesting that Phillies areas around the highways are better then most areas away from it.

TonyTone · #**22729** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I have two theories behind this:

1.) 95 and 676 each feel as if they were built at the "edges" of neighborhoods. Highways in other cities run through the hearts of certain neighborhoods, destroying many important buildings and intersections. Although 676 and especially 95 were mistakes that should have never came to fruition, large sections of neighborhoods were spared from obliteration.

2.) The worst of the planned highways were never built:

IMO, Philadelphia would be in MUCH worse shape if any of never-built planned highways on this list had been built. The 309 Expressway, 52nd Street Expressway, Girard Avenue Expressway, and I-695 highway would have all been an impediment to the city's rebirth and renewal.

I've seen this map before its the complete opposite hellscape of the 1910 Subway transportation map that should have been built.

I can only imagine what Girard ave would look like with a highway on it, as well as another highway a couple blocks away from 676 in Chinatown, Center city would have been destroyed.

Philly definitely would have been worse off with all those highways, its crazy they event thought about destroying majority of the city with highways, I wonder what that would have looked like in real life though.

I also think you may be right, the fact that 95, and 76 were built on the edges it minimized the damage that could have been done, yea the riverfront has a big "Wall of china" kind of feel in some areas, however what was destroyed was already in a end of the city shipyard kind of deal, would the riverfront be 100% better without it, YES! Does it kill the true fabric of the city NO.

I do think the best decision for 95 would have been. tunneling it as soon as it passses the Shipyard. and stadium. Yes that would have been expensive as hell, but hey we would have saved acres of plots and land for other use.

676 should have been tunneled from the rip, it's already basically a tunnel cap that shit and put the ventilation in. why half ass it?

TempleGuy1000 · #**22730** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I can agree that 676 stifled the growth of Chinatown, and acres of land that could have been used for more skyscrapers and development, however for the most part Vine St has good bones compared to a lot of other part of the city. I would 100% live along Vine St.

Also, and I might have missed this, but were Edge Water 2 is going now, is a really nice area and with the Giant and Trader Joe's, it's a very easy neighborhood to live in next to 676

TonyTone · #**22731** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Also, and I might have missed this, but were Edge Water 2 is going now, is a really nice area and with the Giant and Trader Joe's, it's a very easy neighborhood to live in next to 676

100% You could live, and walk around 676 and never know there's a highway there unless you really looked over the bridge crossings.

676 Is the least invasive highway I've seen in a city as far as street interaction goes.

mcgrath618 · #**22732** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyTone

100% You could live, and walk around 676 and never know there's a highway there unless you really looked over the bridge crossings.

676 Is the least invasive highway I've seen in a city as far as street interaction goes.

I'll have whatever you guys are having, because I-676 (wherever there isn't a cap) is a vast, yawning chasm that completely destroyed Chinatown and North Broad.

TempleGuy1000 · #**22733** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I'll have whatever you guys are having, because I-676 (wherever there isn't a cap) is a vast, yawning chasm that completely destroyed Chinatown and North Broad.

Well I was speaking in context of 2022. In the grand scheme of things, I agree with Tony. 95/Delaware Ave. is easily the worst. 76 along the west side of the Schuylkill is easily second. When the demand was there, development easily went over and passed 676. Not to say it didn't have negative effects before, but it's not the barrier some make it out to be like 95 is.

PurpleWhiteOut · #**22734** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 3:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I'll have whatever you guys are having, because I-676 (wherever there isn't a cap) is a vast, yawning chasm that completely destroyed Chinatown and North Broad.

I 100% agree. I find it to be the most intrusive highway out of all of them. Having centered much of my time in Philly from North and Lower North Philly, I had to cross it a lot. Compare walking north of center city via Chinatown, you have this huge barrier before Callowhill, and people are naturally going to turn around unless they have a destination further north and won't naturally wander up. Compare that to the gentle easing out of center city going south as you hit Pine, Lombard, South... We know that if the South St Crosstown Expressway existed it would have destroyed that gentle easing going south. A truly uninterrupted street grid without 676 would be vastly different. Imagine a mixed use street there like Fairmount Ave in size instead. And that goes without even bringing all the on/off ramp messes into the picture

helloworld · #**22735** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 4:01 AM**

tower crane up for amy gutmann hall at 34th and chestnut

AnEmperorPenguin · #**22736** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 5:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I can agree that 676 stifled the growth of Chinatown, and acres of land that could have been used for more skyscrapers and development, however for the most part Vine St has good bones compared to a lot of other part of the city. I would 100% live along Vine St.

"stifled the growth of Chinatown" is one hell of a euphemism since it was built through the middle of an existing Chinatown and decapitated it, helping to destroy Callowhill, and today is a moat flanked by a second highway (vine st) that sucks to walk through

TempleGuy1000 · #**22737** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 12:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin

"stifled the growth of Chinatown" is one hell of a euphemism since it was built through the middle of an existing Chinatown and decapitated it, helping to destroy Callowhill, and today is a moat flanked by a second highway (vine st) that sucks to walk through

Callowhill was the Kensington Ave. of it's day. People called Franklin Square, and the blocks down Race St., Skid Row because it was lined with bums and drunks. Further down towards Broad and Vine was such a hellish industrial wasteland, it inspired David Lynch's famous dystopian film 'Eraserhead'. The re-telling of "vibrant" communities feels real similar to the way people are trying to gaslight about the Fashion District and Market East.

I honestly can't believe we have people who think 676 is worst than I-95 and I-76. Crazy to me. Maybe people don't actually realize how negative it's been for the city to have the street grid cut off from the waterways.

cardeza · #**22738** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyTone

100% You could live, and walk around 676 and never know there's a highway there unless you really looked over the bridge crossings.

676 Is the least invasive highway I've seen in a city as far as street interaction goes.

It is also almost inconceivable to think about this link not being there now that its been open for 30 years. Having all that traffic dumping onto a super wide regular "street" would not be good for center city. if you look at old pictures of what was there before the highway it wasn't actually all that urban or attractive and it certainly didnt look too pedestrian or bike friendly. 676 is basically a river of vehicles going through the city, it's not the greatest thing ever but the idea that the surrounding area was some beautiful urbane neighborhood prior to construction is a bit of a stretch. I mean if we built a cap over the schulkyll river south of the fairmount dam we could have more developable land and we could close a chasm- I don't think anyone is proposing we do that however. Cities all over the country and world have gaps created by rivers, railyards, highways, etc. that are spanned by bridges- life goes on.

cardeza · #**22739** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 1:54 PM**

Does anyone know what is being built adjacent to 76 near Penn's athletic fields? I saw heavy equipment on site when driving past the other day.

TempleGuy1000 · #**22740** Posted **Dec 6, 2022, 2:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardeza

Does anyone know what is being built adjacent to 76 near Penn's athletic fields? I saw heavy equipment on site when driving past the other day.

Maybe equipment for 3200 Walnut?