HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Completed Project Threads Archive


Salesforce Tower in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • Chicago Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
Chicago Projects & Construction Forum

 

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #121  
Old Posted May 29, 2012, 11:55 PM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
Guys, stop freaking out, this is a concept design rendering. Cesar Pelli hasn't even designed anything yet.
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:01 AM
ChiPhi's Avatar
ChiPhi ChiPhi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicago, Philadelphia
Posts: 500
If these are just massing models, I will hold out judgements on the architecture, though I've got plenty.

I will say that even the placement on the siteplan is awkward. I suppose it makes sense to have all three meet the water as they do, but what will be in the middle? A tiny park with no light to hit it? There might be enough southern exposure between those buildings down the river to get some good light in there, but I think a large riverwalk park would have been better. I do like the staircases that cascade to the water between the tower, but I wish there were more space at the water.

And if BKL is designing the towers, that is sadly disappointing. It isn't that they are bad, just not particularly amazing and they certainly lack the cache of Pelli.
__________________
“The test of a great building is in the marketplace. The Marketplace recognizes the value of quality architecture and endorses it in the sales price it is able to achieve.” — Jon Pickard, Principal, Pickard Chilton
     
     
  #123  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:13 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,043
If they are not just massing models then I kind of like it, but it seems like they are, not amazing but still acceptable.

however if you count the floors of the tallest tower you get ~50 and not 80

but 925 feet is always welcome
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:19 AM
spyguy's Avatar
spyguy spyguy is offline
THAT Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,949
It sounds like BKL is designing the apartment building (which makes sense given Magellan's involvement) and Pelli is doing the two office towers. The middle tower definitely has that Pelli quality about it, if you know what I mean.

My opinion based on the renderings so far:

Central tower - I'm very happy that it's symmetrical and it seems to have a nautical shape. Of course more height would be great, but 950' potentially isn't bad. I really hope they light this building right down the center, from the bottom all the way up to the crown. That would look amazing at night.

Western tower - decent filler, reminds me a lot of that vacant sliver tower in NY on Eighth Avenue.

Eastern tower - probably the most disappointing of the bunch. It's really quite fat. I never thought I'd say this, but it actually overwhelms the Merchandise Mart. I'd like to see a redesign (likely, given the anticipated construction start) or for it to switch places with the much skinnier apartment tower (that would have the side benefit of hiding the Apparel Center even more).
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:20 AM
Buckman821's Avatar
Buckman821 Buckman821 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 485
Bravenewworld, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea that these are massing models. I just reread the article and nothing indicates that. To me, it is not totally clear if these renderings are from the office of Pelli or Kerwin. These renderings are far too detailed to meet my concept of massing models anyway.

Having said that, this project will be a long haul, and I'm sure there will be several rounds of design changes - but that's a little different than saying these are merely massing models.
     
     
  #126  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:24 AM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Monterey CA
Posts: 4,204
The 'massing models' as referenced have identical footprints as what's shown on the overall Site plan from the 2009 Chicago river proposals:

__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
     
     
  #127  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:24 AM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
These are early renderings so that the Kennedys could show their plan. Pelli has not designed any of the towers yet, but he will be designing the towers. These are simply early designs to show what the site could look like. I repeat, these are not pelli's designs, but he is designing the towers.
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:28 AM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,043
If the largest is an office tower it probably won't be 80 floors unless it's a massive supertall.

Why was it said there would be an 80 floor building in this plan?
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:35 AM
Buckman821's Avatar
Buckman821 Buckman821 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
These are early renderings so that the Kennedys could show their plan. Pelli has not designed any of the towers yet, but he will be designing the towers. These are simply early designs to show what the site could look like. I repeat, these are not pelli's designs, but he is designing the towers.
Thanks for merely increasing your volume. My question is, where are you getting this? The suntimes article does not make this clear, it seems to merely be your interpretation.

To me it makes it sound as though these towers were designed, and will be designed by Thomas Kerwin.
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:35 AM
ChiPhi's Avatar
ChiPhi ChiPhi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicago, Philadelphia
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
If the largest is an office tower it probably won't be 80 floors unless it's a massive supertall.

Why was it said there would be an 80 floor building in this plan?
I think the tallest is mixed use, but yeah, 80 floors seems a bit much. I think people just started saying that.
__________________
“The test of a great building is in the marketplace. The Marketplace recognizes the value of quality architecture and endorses it in the sales price it is able to achieve.” — Jon Pickard, Principal, Pickard Chilton
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:40 AM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckman821 View Post
Thanks for merely increasing your volume. My question is, where are you getting this? The suntimes article does not make this clear, it seems to merely be your interpretation.

To me it makes it sound as though these towers were designed, and will be designed by Thomas Kerwin.
Here is an excerpt from the article -
Quote:
The Kennedys, who own the site, and the developers hired prominent architect Cesar Pelli of Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects, for overall design work, but the towers are by Thomas Kerwin, principal of BKL Architecture and a former partner at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP.
But the towers... It sounds like they are saying these massing models were designed by Thomas Kerwin
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:45 AM
Buckman821's Avatar
Buckman821 Buckman821 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
Here is an excerpt from the article -

But the towers... It sounds like they are saying these massing models were designed by Thomas Kerwin
I believe you misinterpreted that, but I suppose I could be wrong as well. I believe they mean to say that Pelli will be in a site planning role.

On to my next concern. Where are you getting "massing models" from?
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:48 AM
rgolch's Avatar
rgolch rgolch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
These are early renderings so that the Kennedys could show their plan. Pelli has not designed any of the towers yet, but he will be designing the towers. These are simply early designs to show what the site could look like. I repeat, these are not pelli's designs, but he is designing the towers.
Your insistence that these are not the true renderings seems to imply your unhappy with what's presented. Honestly, I think what they're showing is damn nice. It may not be a total home run, but I would be very satisfied if something like what we're seeing eventually graces the Chicago skyline, especially with the signature tower.
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:49 AM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckman821 View Post
I believe you misinterpreted that, but I suppose I could be wrong as well. I believe they mean to say that Pelli will be in a site planning role.

On to my next concern. Where are you getting "massing models" from?
Someone else said that, I believe it was on the last page.
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 12:55 AM
spyguy's Avatar
spyguy spyguy is offline
THAT Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,949
Just for the sake of completeness, the Tribune article which has different details. I'm sure someone who was able to attend will set the facts straight.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7108445.story

Developers give first glimpse of proposed complex at junction of Chicago River branches
By Blair Kamin


...The firm of New Haven, Conn. architect Cesar Pelli has designed the office towers and has crafted a master plan which calls for 2.3 acres, more than half the site, to be open space. Up to 1,285 parking spaces would be in a three- or four-level deck tucked below street-level greenery. The open space would slope down to a 30-foot-wide riverwalk, as required by the city.
...
The Chicago firm of bKL Architecture has designed the apartment building, a 500-footer, which the developers want to complete by fall of 2014. The building would be marketed to young professionals and would have about 500 units, with an average size of 750 square feet.

Rents would start at $2,000 per month for studios and go to $4,000 per month for two bedrooms, according to Van Schaack.

The developers said they plan to request a zoning change that would allow them to build slightly higher towers, achieving a total square footage for all three buildings of more than 3.7 million square feet. If that change were granted, the towers would be 950, 750 and 525 feet tall, said Hines' zoning laywer, Jack George.
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:03 AM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolch View Post
Your insistence that these are not the true renderings seems to imply your unhappy with what's presented. Honestly, I think what they're showing is damn nice. It may not be a total home run, but I would be very satisfied if something like what we're seeing eventually graces the Chicago skyline, especially with the signature tower.
No, I was noticing that a few people didn't like it, and I was trying to tell them, so they wouldn't freak out. I actually am really happy with this, this rendering from Markh9 looks great -

     
     
  #137  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:12 AM
Ch.G, Ch.G's Avatar
Ch.G, Ch.G Ch.G, Ch.G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by headcase View Post
Ok, people need to relax until they know what they are looking at, these are basically detailed massing models for a PD admendment. The plan sounds pretty solid, and seems to address the majority of the potential early complaints.

The meeting is still going on and I'll chime in when others post later. I'm sure interesting images will be posted later as I've spotted other formers.

SSDD
"Detailed massing model" is kind of an oxymoron. Massing models are supposed to be very rudimentary. These renderings show pretty articulated/fleshed-out forms. There might be some changes in response to public pressure or the economy or whatever, but, regardless of what they're telling you at the meeting, I get the sense that these are close to their fully realized designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
And if BKL is designing the towers, that is sadly disappointing. It isn't that they are bad, just not particularly amazing and they certainly lack the cache of Pelli.
Pelli's designs are far too ubiquitous and pedestrian to have any cachet. You also underrate BKL. I'd take a thoughtful building like Coast at LSE any day over Pelli's PoMo forms.
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:18 AM
ChiPhi's Avatar
ChiPhi ChiPhi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicago, Philadelphia
Posts: 500
^^^
BKL does really great simple boxes but I'd want something more than a simple box here. And Pelli has lots of name recognition and his recent stuff is really not PoMo at all; much like Jahn, he transitioned away from postmodernism with the trend. Pelli's recent stuff isn't amazing, but the materiality and sizing is as good as BKL, but more interesting in form imo. I'd rate others (Nouvel, Holl etc.) over him, but his stuff is certainly not pedestrian. Plus getting a Pelli design boosts the city's global image.
__________________
“The test of a great building is in the marketplace. The Marketplace recognizes the value of quality architecture and endorses it in the sales price it is able to achieve.” — Jon Pickard, Principal, Pickard Chilton
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:18 AM
BraveNewWorld's Avatar
BraveNewWorld BraveNewWorld is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
Just for the sake of completeness, the Tribune article which has different details. I'm sure someone who was able to attend will set the facts straight.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7108445.story

Developers give first glimpse of proposed complex at junction of Chicago River branches
By Blair Kamin


...The firm of New Haven, Conn. architect Cesar Pelli has designed the office towers and has crafted a master plan which calls for 2.3 acres, more than half the site, to be open space. Up to 1,285 parking spaces would be in a three- or four-level deck tucked below street-level greenery. The open space would slope down to a 30-foot-wide riverwalk, as required by the city.
...
The Chicago firm of bKL Architecture has designed the apartment building, a 500-footer, which the developers want to complete by fall of 2014. The building would be marketed to young professionals and would have about 500 units, with an average size of 750 square feet.

Rents would start at $2,000 per month for studios and go to $4,000 per month for two bedrooms, according to Van Schaack.

The developers said they plan to request a zoning change that would allow them to build slightly higher towers, achieving a total square footage for all three buildings of more than 3.7 million square feet. If that change were granted, the towers would be 950, 750 and 525 feet tall, said Hines' zoning laywer, Jack George.
A 290 meter building ? I am good with that!
     
     
  #140  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:21 AM
Chicago_Forever's Avatar
Chicago_Forever Chicago_Forever is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chi-River North
Posts: 421
I was at the meeting from start to the begining of the Q&A.

I didn't hear anything about these being massing models.

I heard the west tower (residential) is designed by BLK/Meggelan which lead me the believe Cesar Pelli is in charge of designing the other two towers.
The west tower is phase one and will include 510 apartments and 200 parking spaces.

Phase two is the 950ft commercial tower, I didn't hear the amount of parking it will include.

Finally, phase 3, the eastern tower will rise to 750ft and also incldude 200 parking spaces, I'm not sure of its use though.

Parking will be underground sort of like a millennium park deck type of thing so there won't be any parking podiums.


The NIMBY crowd was present and they voiced their usually stupid, selfish concerns.
The first 3 questions were about traffic and zoning issues. The 4th question was "why build 3 very tall towers, why not build one large, short box? That's when I decided I'd had enough and left. Even the elevator chatter was pretty hilarious as these two women were discussing how this project will drastically ruin their lives, lol.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
 

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Completed Project Threads Archive
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:28 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.