How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Note that while I may be in the minority thinking like this on here, I don't actually think that this is primarily related to the housing crisis we also talk about a lot - which is definitely a crisis but ironically not a direct correlation with homelessness, panhandling and vagrancy.

Yes, I think you're right. The housing affordability crisis is one of middle class and professional people not being able to afford to buy homes, not of poor people not being able to afford shelter (rent).

Rents in Canadian cities are pretty reasonable relative to incomes. Here are some quick comparisons, using the rents that governments use to determine housing assistance policies:

Toronto:
Average monthly 1-BR rent: CAD 1,446 (source)
Average (mean) monthly personal income (2020): CAD 4,391 ($52,700/12) (source) - (note: this is a CMA stat; I had to use average income, because I couldn't find a median personal income stat for SF)
Rent:Income ratio: 0.33

San Francisco:
Fair market rent (1BR): USD 2,631 (source)
Average (mean) monthly personal income (2020): USD 6,003 (USD 72,041/12) (source)
Rent:Income ratio: 0.44

[Acajack]

My kids and their friends (a couple of years under and couple of years over 20) are looking to be the main victims of the housing crisis, but barring some catastrophic "life derail", at this point I don't see any of them living in tents or on the streets at any point in their lives.

BTW plenty of countries in the world are nations of renters and apartment dwellers where owning property (especially spacious ones offering decent privacy) is only for the very richest population tranche.

While not necessarily desirable, we wouldn't be a global outlier if that ends up being our future.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW plenty of countries in the world are nations of renters and apartment dwellers where owning property (especially spacious ones offering decent privacy) is only for the very richest population tranche.

Other than FOMO and the ability to build some wealth security for later in life, the two other big issues with renting in Canada vs. buying are:

1. The threat of being evicted if your landlord wants to sell/redevelop, etc.

2. Not enough large rental spaces if you want to start a family with children

If we had more of a culture of large, institutional landlords that wanted to hold on to properties and tenants, rather than small mom and pop landlords - especially those who live in the same property they rent out - and if we could find a way to subsidize the development of more 2 and 3-BR rentals that actually have decent layouts, then we'd go a long way to solving our housing issues without dealing with housing price affordability per se.

Quebec has always been better than the ROC on both of these, but recently things have started to turn around at least here in Toronto on the purpose-built rental front. Getting rental developers to build larger units is still a challenge, though.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My kids and their friends (a couple of years under and couple of years over 20) are looking to be the main victims of the housing crisis, but barring some catastrophic "life derail", at this point I don't see any of them living in tents or on the streets at any point in their lives.

BTW plenty of countries in the world are nations of renters and apartment dwellers where owning property (especially spacious ones offering decent privacy) is only for the very richest population tranche.

While not necessarily desirable, we wouldn't be a global outlier if that ends up being our future.

We would be a global outlier in how our rental market functions. In developed countries like Germany where renting is the dominant method of providing housing, it is not private individuals buying individual housing units and turning them around for rent. There is clear separation between rental real estate, and "ownership real estate", which is how it was in Canada back in the 60s-80s when we built large purpose-built rental towers and housing units for individuals/families and the line between the two wasn't a complete blur like it is today.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW plenty of countries in the world are nations of renters and apartment dwellers where owning property (especially spacious ones offering decent privacy) is only for the very richest population tranche.

While not necessarily desirable, we wouldn't be a global outlier if that ends up being our future.

True, but a 150-year-old country of 37 million people and 10 million square kilometres might reasonably be expected to permit more property ownership than Hong Kong or Austria.

[MonctonRad]

I think the one unifying reason for the homelessness crisis is that some people have great difficulties in coping with the complexities of modern life.

In the old days, if you had a low grade mental illness, or if you were poorly educated, or if you generally had difficulty dealing with stressful situations, you could still get by with a menial job (manual labourer etc), and could get housing in a boarding house. The work kept you busy, and your room in the boarding house kept you off the street. You may still have had a relatively meaningless existence, but you were invisible and were out of trouble.

Nowadays, untrained manual labour jobs don't exist any more. Low level employment still exists in fast food etc, but rooming houses don't exist anymore, and the low wages are not enough to pay for even a bachelor apartment. Life is also a lot more complex these days than it used to be. Everything is online, and everyone needs a cellphone, and at least enough computer literacy to learn how to use apps and to pay your bills and apply for jobs online. This can be difficult if you have poor literacy, poor command of the English language, or if you have a stress/anxiety disorder. Nowadays, it is difficult to find people to give you first hand assistance. You are expected to do everything yourself.

This expectation of self sufficiency in turn makes thing even worse. If you have poor coping skills in the first place, and you have nowhere to turn for help, this will only increase your stress and anxiety levels. To deal with this heightened anxiety, you turn to drugs and alcohol, which makes things worse, and increases the likelihood of homelessness, petty crime and panhandling. It is a vicious cycle.

We need to provide these people with borderline coping skills and stress/anxiety disorders the resources necessary to remain productive in society. A boarding house can be something like an assisted living facility. We need these more than we need low income apartments (if you ask me). We also need to maintain at least some basic manual labour jobs for the marginalized so that they are able to survive. Finally, we need to provide the addicted with both short term and long term support for their addictions. We need to send them to drug treatment centres (even against their will), and once they have dried out, return them to halfway facilities in their home towns while at the same time supporting their reentry into the workplace, and support groups so they can form friendships with other people with similar troubles that they can relate to.

And, as for the drug pushers, no kid gloves treatment for them! I would support a "two strikes and your out" principle. If you are caught pushing even just a second time, then you are removed from society for at least 20 years. Maybe not a jail, but special work camps in the woods sounds about right. These people are the true bain on our existence.

[casper]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the one unifying reason for the homelessness crisis is that some people have great difficulties in coping with the complexities of modern life.

In the old days, if you had a low grade mental illness, or if you were poorly educated, or if you generally had difficulty dealing with stressful situations, you could still get by with a menial job (manual labourer etc), and could get housing in a boarding house. The work kept you busy, and your room in the boarding house kept you off the street. You may still have had a relatively meaningless existence, but you were invisible and were out of trouble.

Nowadays, untrained manual labour jobs don't exist any more. Low level employment still exists in fast food etc, but rooming houses don't exist anymore, and the low wages are not enough to pay for even a bachelor apartment. Life is also a lot more complex these days than it used to be. Everything is online, and everyone needs a cellphone, and at least enough computer literacy to learn how to use apps and to pay your bills and apply for jobs online. This can be difficult if you have poor literacy, poor command of the English language, or if you have a stress/anxiety disorder. Nowadays, it is difficult to find people to give you first hand assistance. You are expected to do everything yourself.

This expectation of self sufficiency in turn makes thing even worse. If you have poor coping skills in the first place, and you have nowhere to turn for help, this will only increase your stress and anxiety levels. To deal with this heightened anxiety, you turn to drugs and alcohol, which makes things worse, and increases the likelihood of homelessness, petty crime and panhandling. It is a vicious cycle.

We need to provide these people with borderline coping skills and stress/anxiety disorders the resources necessary to remain productive in society. A boarding house can be something like an assisted living facility. We need these more than we need low income apartments (if you ask me). We also need to maintain at least some basic manual labour jobs for the marginalized so that they are able to survive. Finally, we need to provide the addicted with both short term and long term support for their addictions. We need to send them to drug treatment centres (even against their will), and once they have dried out, return them to halfway facilities in their home towns while at the same time supporting their reentry into the workplace, and support groups so they can form friendships with other people with similar troubles that they can relate to.

And, as for the drug pushers, no kid gloves treatment for them! I would support a "two strikes and your out" principle. If you are caught pushing even just a second time, then you are removed from society for at least 20 years. Maybe not a jail, but special work camps in the woods sounds about right. These people are the true bain on our existence.

I think that is an important aspect of what is going on.

The family support network also does not exist to the same extent that it did in years past.

Portugal de-criminalized drugs. They view addiction as a medical issue not a criminal issue. I think we need to go the same direction. As for the people selling the stuff, well that is still illegal and should be treated the same way as man-slaughter.

We should be able to go a non-profit the community and basically say, we will hire you to hire those on the street and give them jobs doing janitorial or other low complexity work. Over time they can build up skills and transition into something more complex or with a high tempo.

The problem with working at McDonalds or other similar positions is these are fairly high temp jobs. Someone recovering from addiction is not going to be able to work at that speed.

Here in BC we contract out family counseling, drug addiction counseling to community based non-profits. I know one of them here in Victoria opened a coffee shop. The key goal was to give teens that were at risk that first job they could put on their resume to provide to a future employer they were employable. We need more of that.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the one unifying reason for the homelessness crisis is that some people have great difficulties in coping with the complexities of modern life.

In the old days, if you had a low grade mental illness, or if you were poorly educated, or if you generally had difficulty dealing with stressful situations, you could still get by with a menial job (manual labourer etc), and could get housing in a boarding house. The work kept you busy, and your room in the boarding house kept you off the street. You may still have had a relatively meaningless existence, but you were invisible and were out of trouble.

Nowadays, untrained manual labour jobs don't exist any more. Low level employment still exists in fast food etc, but rooming houses don't exist anymore, and the low wages are not enough to pay for even a bachelor apartment. Life is also a lot more complex these days than it used to be. Everything is online, and everyone needs a cellphone, and at least enough computer literacy to learn how to use apps and to pay your bills and apply for jobs online. This can be difficult if you have poor literacy, poor command of the English language, or if you have a stress/anxiety disorder. Nowadays, it is difficult to find people to give you first hand assistance. You are expected to do everything yourself.

This expectation of self sufficiency in turn makes thing even worse. If you have poor coping skills in the first place, and you have nowhere to turn for help, this will only increase your stress and anxiety levels. To deal with this heightened anxiety, you turn to drugs and alcohol, which makes things worse, and increases the likelihood of homelessness, petty crime and panhandling. It is a vicious cycle.

We need to provide these people with borderline coping skills and stress/anxiety disorders the resources necessary to remain productive in society. A boarding house can be something like an assisted living facility. We need these more than we need low income apartments (if you ask me). We also need to maintain at least some basic manual labour jobs for the marginalized so that they are able to survive. Finally, we need to provide the addicted with both short term and long term support for their addictions. We need to send them to drug treatment centres (even against their will), and once they have dried out, return them to halfway facilities in their home towns while at the same time supporting their reentry into the workplace, and support groups so they can form friendships with other people with similar troubles that they can relate to.

And, as for the drug pushers, no kid gloves treatment for them! I would support a "two strikes and your out" principle. If you are caught pushing even just a second time, then you are removed from society for at least 20 years. Maybe not a jail, but special work camps in the woods sounds about right. These people are the true bain on our existence.

^ Insightful. I think some rooming houses, houses sub-divided into room/apartments do exist (at least here in Vancouver), although not as many as years ago, and they likely cost as much as a bachelor apt. should. We also have SROs out here, but they are a nightmare if not maintained properly.

As for the drug pushers - yes - put them in Gulags.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the one unifying reason for the homelessness crisis is that some people have great difficulties in coping with the complexities of modern life.

I keep asking myself what has become so broken in society that we have arrived at this situation, and I have to believe that this is a large part of it.

I also have to think that there have been other massive societal swings that have made living much less satisfying and enjoyable than it was some 40 - 50 years ago (for those of us old enough to remember what it was like). Nostalgia aside, the transition to digital living seems to have brought about a change in expectations for what a "good life" should be, combined with increased scrutiny by our peers, a reduction in the quality of personal interactions, loss of privacy, etc etc. What were societal norms like mutual respect and politeness seem to have gone by the wayside as well. Maybe it's just my naivete showing through, but generally people seemed happier back then.

Using drugs in an attempt to escape the realities of life has been around forever, but what is happening now is at a whole other level. Soft drugs were very prevalent in the 1970s and 80s, and they created huge problems of their own, but that's hard to reconcile with the proliferation of hard drugs that have a large chance of killing you (i.e. cut with god-knows-what), and people accepting that the risk of this is a better choice than dealing with the world around them.

I know I am oversimplifying things, but I'm feeling genuine grief for the world around me and how quality of life has degraded for so many people, so quickly. Nothing more to add than that.

[Acajack]

There is currently a buzz on local Ottawa social media about retailers leaving downtown due to problems with theft and other bad behaviour.

There was of course the infamous Rideau St. McDonald's (of raccoon fame) that closed down in the past year but now the talk is about Rexall closing down one of the shiny new downtown drugstores they've opened downtown in recent years. Apparently losses from theft are in the thousands of dollars every week.

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton, especially Downtown and the Central NE has been at level 11 during the pandemic and even a couple years earlier. There were times during COVID that I swear that 'normal' people were sadly outnumbered by those with very clear addiction/mental health issues and to be honest some outright criminals looking for crimes of opportunity. The erosion and deterioration of safety was significant and even the public areas were having a ton of vandalism from folks angry or clearly high.

LRT stations because actual safety issues (some trains too).

Chinatown is a mess and incredibly impacted by drug use, mental health issues, disorder and theft.

Our condo in Downtown Edmonton had more break-ins/thefts in the last two years as the last 17yrs combined.

It is getting a lot of attention locally and thankfully/finally a lot of resources and support from various organizations, but it has turned a lot of folks off of living centrally, working in the area and investing.

Part of the reason my condo is listed is because my gf did not feel safe to walk the pup in the mornings and evenings if I was not with her.

My car had two attempted break-ins in the last 3 yrs, zero in the 14yrs before that in that location.

We also have 3 homeless people living in and around the building/bushes which while generally harmless tends to add to some perception issues.

Overall a very sad state of affairs for many of our fellow humans and we must continue to find more supportive paths forward for them.

---

Canmore certainly has addition/drug issues and a very small amount of visible homelessness, but is impressively safe and without much crime it seems outside of the usual bike issues.

[MolsonExport]

I am in favor of 'make work' government policies, with some kind of financial and housing allowances as rewards.. Just to keep people busy, and not so much for what they do while busy. Idle hands is the devil's work.

[Coldrsx]

A very significant percentage of Edmonton's population at risk and with visible addiction issues are indigenous.

A difficult statistic that remains with me about Downtown crime is that 2/3-3/4 of it is tied to indigenous youth gangs and or indigenous peoples at large.

Edmonton, like Winnipeg must find a different way forward for those communities; it will be both city's biggest challenge and greatest opportunity.

[Maldive]

With apologies in advance to innsertnamehere and other locals.... downtown Hamilton, a city I visit about every 2 weeks or so (have friends there, family nearby and grew up 15 minutes away)... might qualify (per capita) as one the country's most tragic urban human nightmares ("all of the above" described in the thread title).

Somewhat bewildering, all around the newish police HQ (where friends live nearby), it's impossible to walk a block without encountering someone who a) clearly needs help b) is tripping on meth or other, and/or c) folks screaming/threatening each other (often in the completely destroyed new park that I think might be the city's largest homeless encampment). Never seen/heard anything quite like it in this country or elsewhere in decades of travel.

The soundtrack of downtown seems to largely consist of paramedic sirens (or fire response), screaming, crying and every known expletive echoing for blocks around.

And yes, I love James Street North, the waterfront, the escarpment waterfalls and Locke Street.... but it seems The Hammer's social net is getting hammered full of holes.

[goodgrowth]

I think about how a lot of homeless go around picking up recycling containers and whatnot for the money. This just says to me that they will do forms of work on their own...they just might not be able to work in a regular job.

It sounds ridiculous but I wondered if municipalities could put prices on other things that would allow the homeless to be productive and make some money.

Like if the municipality used special garbage bags for it's municipal bins and gave a $5 fee(just pulling this number out of my head) for returning a full bag or something I suspect garbage bins would never been overflowing again..

Things like this would cost money but I'd argue it could be win win in a lot of ways.

[Coldrsx]

What I loved was some of the 'response' from our police service to our condo board and residents.

'put up signs that say don't put valuables in your car'

No commitment to community patrols, no beat officers assigned, no strategy and all downloaded back onto our building.

[harls]

I've been living in Gatineau since 2006, and the situation has certainly been getting worse.

When I moved here, there never used to be a beggar on the corner of the merge ramps from the 148 to autoroute 50. Now it is surprising when you don't see one there.

Same goes for the EB off ramp at Parkdale in Ottawa. Or Riverside and Industrial. Or SJAM turning left to Quebec. None of these places had people begging for money 16 years ago.

The only prolific spot at that time was King Edward near the Market (I am talking about being parked at a red light on a busy street..)

[SignalHillHiker]

It appears to have improved here over the past several years.

Homelessness remains mostly invisible in St. John’s with most people experiencing it couchsurfing, living out of vehicles, or staying at shelters. You might run into someone sleeping rough in the core maybe once or twice per year.

From the outside looking in, the worst of the opioid crisis appears to have passed. Still lots of people with prescriptions for methadone or whatever it is they use. Lots of sharps disposal boxes, discarded needles, naloxone kits, etc. still littering sidewalks and parks. The legalization of cannabis has completely severed any interaction between recreational drug users and the illegal drug trade. Most of the remaining illegal things (cocaine, for example), recreational users avoid due to fears of fentanyl. So the addicted community is now more invisible, which is bad, but also comes into contact less with the recreational users.

Mental health services have also improved, though less so for the most vulnerable. It’s gotten far easier here, though, for a working class person with a mental health issue to seek our therapy/support, etc.

It’s mostly safe here, for all involved. Deaths are relatively rare compared to similar-sized cities elsewhere. The other day there was a naked man from the drug den across the street just sitting out on the front step having a beer, walking up and down the street in front of neighbours and their kids One gave him shit, he crawled back in through the window of the drug den. Someone called the police (I don’t bother), and they came and knocked and gave up. No one hurt, or arrested. A week or so ago the ambulance took someone out of there on a stretcher but they were conscious (though clearly high). That’s kind of how it tends to go here. Not great but not too bad.

[Razor]

What's disturbing is that homelessness and "heavier"drug use such as heroin used to be a big city problem, but now I'm hearing that the smaller centres have been experiencing these same problems which have ramped up especially in the past decade. There are now some smaller cites with homeless shelters, safe injection sites, and discarded needles getting out of hand..Unheard of years ago..No longer 'only the big city" problems that they once were.

[jonny24]

I'd agree that Hamilton has taken a noticeable turn for the worse over the course of the pandemic.

2016 to 2018 I lived just went of downtown, and went / walked downtown often enough.

2018 I moved near THF, as well getting a job on the mountain instead of driving to Woodstock, so basically my day to day life doesn't pass through downtown unless I'm driving to the 403, which is fairly often.

An holy are there a lot of people hanging around that clearly have no where else to go, compared towaht it seemed like before. Now it seems like every drive through I see someone clearly tripping balls / having severe metal issues, wandering ranting etc. Obvious "camps" / individual makeshift shelters in all kinds of obvious places that you wouldn't have seen before.

So yeah, much worse and no signs of improving.