LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It looks like the regional connector will not have flying crossovers, at least not at the east end of the new subway. Look at 1:20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zRK1oPjOuc

For all of the money they're spending on this it's amazing that they skimped on this detail. The lines are so long that it's going to be difficult to consistently stagger the trains and avoid delays at these at-grade junctions during rush hour service.

I think they prioritized the ability to move trains from Eastside to Foothills Branch (i.e. the current Gold Line route) over having a flying junction.

[jmecklenborg]

^Actually it does not appear that this junction will be a true wye. Trains will not be able to follow the old Gold Line route.

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uplo...on_Ian-Ong.pdf

Also, I am less concerned about the operations problems after viewing these illustrations. An outbound train going to Pasadena will simply sit at the station platform and wait for an inbound train from East LA rather than creep out into the tunnel and then sit there while the riders get impatient.

That said, the Regional Connector will put a lot of pressure on Metro to improve the interlined trackage and wye near the Staples Center. It'll be tough to move all of that underground where it is presently located without a lengthy closure of that section of the line and a bus bridge.

[ardecila]

Why is that? Through-routing will not increase the train volumes on Flower Street and should actually make it smoother since you won't have outbound trains using the crossover south of Metro Center and tying up the inbound track.

[bzcat]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Why is that? Through-routing will not increase the train volumes on Flower Street and should actually make it smoother since you won't have outbound trains using the crossover south of Metro Center and tying up the inbound track.

Thru routing eliminates one bottleneck because trains don't need to turn back but it doesn't do anything about the other bigger problem of delays from surface traffic. When trains don't arrive on schedule, it causes operational problem in the tunnel.

Foothill branch doesn't have a lot of traffic delays but Eastside, Long Beach and Expo branches all have significant traffic delays. This is why the most important improvement after regional connector opens is to deal with the Flower Street section. Putting it underground is a solution but so is closing a bunch of crossings which is much cheaper to do.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by bzcat

Thru routing eliminates one bottleneck because trains don't need to turn back but it doesn't do anything about the other bigger problem of delays from surface traffic. When trains don't arrive on schedule, it causes operational problem in the tunnel.

Yeah the lines are *so long* that it seems like rush hour trains will almost never arrive at the tunnel on schedule. The many grade crossings greatly increase the likelihood of a serious delay.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by bzcat

Thru routing eliminates one bottleneck because trains don't need to turn back but it doesn't do anything about the other bigger problem of delays from surface traffic. When trains don't arrive on schedule, it causes operational problem in the tunnel.

Foothill branch doesn't have a lot of traffic delays but Eastside, Long Beach and Expo branches all have significant traffic delays. This is why the most important improvement after regional connector opens is to deal with the Flower Street section. Putting it underground is a solution but so is closing a bunch of crossings which is much cheaper to do.

Agreed. And I think that the delays will be much more noticeable when the connector opens. Metro has more ability to recover now because if two E trains arrive at 7th/metro back to back they can send one of them back out as an A train. It's easy because that's the end of the line (they don't always do this however). But it's not as easy to do when people have already boarded with destinations after the connector. This could definitely result in issues with platform crowding if one line has delays.

[ardecila]

It's actually kinda similar to Chicago where Red and Blue lines have a dedicated subway through downtown but the other lines have to contend with flat junctions and merges on the Loop.

In LA, I'm guessing that the grid structure of the planned network will not lead to severe rush hour crowding at the downtown stations like you might see in NY or SF. There will be two N-S spines through the city that never touch downtown (Crenshaw and 405). Valley-Pasadena connections will be possible without going downtown, etc. Events at Staples Center might cause occasional crowding, but there are better ways to manage that demand so it isn't overwhelming.

[202_Cyclist]

Here are a couple of photos of construction of the Orange County streetcar, via the OC Streetcar Twitter feed.





Source: https://twitter.com/ocstreetcar/stat...40305393573890

[202_Cyclist]

This is good news.

LA Metro has more money than expected. Where should it go?

By Steve Chiotakis
Jan. 26, 2021
KCRW

"LA Metro is expecting almost $300 million more in revenue than it expected, thanks to sales tax money.

“We thought we’d be in a very precarious financial situation, and now we have a little bit of wiggle room to restore some of the services that have been slashed,” says Curbed urbanism editor Alissa Walker.

She hopes Metro will use the money, along with emergency federal funds expected from the Biden administration, to increase the number and frequency of buses and trains so they’re less crowded..."

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/grea...la-metro-money

[Easy]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

This is good news.

LA Metro has more money than expected. Where should it go?

By Steve Chiotakis
Jan. 26, 2021
KCRW

"LA Metro is expecting almost $300 million more in revenue than it expected, thanks to sales tax money.

“We thought we’d be in a very precarious financial situation, and now we have a little bit of wiggle room to restore some of the services that have been slashed,” says Curbed urbanism editor Alissa Walker.

She hopes Metro will use the money, along with emergency federal funds expected from the Biden administration, to increase the number and frequency of buses and trains so they’re less crowded..."

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/grea...la-metro-money

Listening to the board meeting, I think that they want to potentially use it to increase service back closer to normal in June.

[jmecklenborg]

A new video showing the Purple Line extension. We get to see all of the precast tunnel segments stacked up in the staging areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA6d...T9EyB7KjTY0RTg

[Busy Bee]

The guy doing these videos (Four Foot) is amazing. No way any transit agency or HSR or anything could produce better videos for a 100k contract... and he's just making them as a transit fan. BRAVO.

[saybanana]

I saw that on YouTube yesterday, so awesome seeing each station. You dont often see what is behind those walls when driving down Wilshire

[202_Cyclist]

Indeed, it is a good video but many of the stations look like they waste land immediately above the stations by being a stand-alone station and not part of a mixed-use development. LA MTA could have partnered with private developers to sell the land, in exchange for helping to fund part of the cost of the station. This would have also increased the number of potential passengers in the immediate area of each of the stations.

[numble]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Indeed, it is a good video but many of the stations look like they waste land immediately above the stations by being a stand-alone station and not part of a mixed-use development. LA MTA could have partnered with private developers to sell the land, in exchange for helping to fund part of the cost of the station. This would have also increased the number of potential passengers in the immediate area of each of the stations.

Metro usually keeps the land and then redevelops it afterward under its joint development program: https://www.metro.net/projects/joint_dev_pgm/

An exception is that Metro is transferring the land used for the Rodeo Station to Beverly Hills as part of a lawsuit settlement with the city.

The land is more valuable if Metro keeps it. If they sold the land immediately after they acquired it via eminent domain (minus easements for the station), they would get less than they had paid for it, as the original seller would otherwise say they did not get paid a fair value for the property when they sold it to Metro.

[Busy Bee]

^ Re: previous 2 comments.

I've wondered about this quite a few times. My question would be does the MTA plan for the eventual development over the station house propery to the extent that the site is designed to accommodate caissons and foundations of future developments WITHOUT interfering with the station footprint and platforms in any way?

[numble]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

^ Re: previous 2 comments.

I've wondered about this quite a few times. My question would be does the MTA plan for the eventual development over the station house propery to the extent that the site is designed to accommodate caissons and foundations of future developments WITHOUT interfering with the station footprint and platforms in any way?

These articles discuss current/prior developments at other Metro stations:
https://urbanize.city/la/post/update...wood-metro-tod

https://urbanize.city/la/post/metro-...t-developments

https://urbanize.city/la/post/four-d...e-little-tokyo

https://urbanize.city/la/post/joint-...haw-properties

https://urbanize.city/la/post/new-lo...ca-development

[Busy Bee]

^ Thanks for the links though from what I can see in those, none of the developments actually fill out the lot and replace the Metro head house in the ground floor but instead build adjacent to the station house/entrance occupying Metro owned land. I was more referring to the complete relocation of Metro facilities into the ground floor of new developments like you would see in NY, London, and may other world cities.

[kodak black]

Originally Posted by busy bee

the guy doing these videos (four foot) is amazing. No way any transit agency or hsr or anything could produce better videos for a 100k contract... And he's just making them as a transit fan. Bravo.

goat

[numble]

LA Metro releases its 4 potential concepts for congestion pricing:

1. Santa Monica Mountains. Between 405 and 5, or 101 and 5.
2. Downtown freeways. Tolling freeways through downtown.
3. Downtown cordon.
4. I-10 Santa Monica to Downtown.


https://thesource.metro.net/2021/02/...arly-concepts/