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  #461  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2021, 7:07 PM
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Call me crazy but a new MSG incorporated into a redeveloped and reimagined PABT or as part of a Herald Square mega-development weve been discussing for that last two weeks seem like valid possibilities.
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  #462  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 1:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbermingham123 View Post
Is the possibility of rebuilding MSG above the farley building completely off the table?

That plan made the most sense to me... others are welcome to weigh in
That was the best plan, but the Dolans objected because they couldn't put MSG signage all over the landmarked portion of the building (Moynihan). Facebook has leased all of the available office space, and it looks very nice...


https://www.vno.com/office/property/...313609/landing

















https://www.6sqft.com/facebook-nyc-o...rley-building/











Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Call me crazy but a new MSG incorporated into a redeveloped and reimagined PABT or as part of a Herald Square mega-development weve been discussing for that last two weeks seem like valid possibilities.
You sir, are crazy.

MSG isn't being removed, and that isn't even on the table. Those were sent in because anyone can send in a suggestion during the scoping process.

The response was already given.





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  #463  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 1:45 AM
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^ Nice digs to oversee the slow destruction of civilization from.
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  #464  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
^ Nice digs to oversee the slow destruction of civilization from.
Yeah, well, we can do without that.
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  #465  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 8:26 PM
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  #466  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 8:38 PM
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Still too bulky. I’m sure they’ll change it again. The program is a little different.
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  #467  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 2:13 AM
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  #468  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 4:10 AM
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Some preliminary renderings of what the expansion could look like...


https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-n...ent-cuomo-vows

Midtown West To Be Transformed In Major Redevelopment, Cuomo Vows
Gov. Andrew Cuomo laid out an ambitious plan Thursday to transform Midtown West through new housing and revitalized public transit.



Nick Garber
Jan 14, 2021


Quote:
Hundreds of units of affordable housing, an expanded Penn Station and a revitalized Port Authority Bus Complex are in store for the west side of Midtown in the coming years as part of an ambitious redevelopment, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday.

The project will "form a new, vibrant, exciting district" covering an L-shaped, 140-acre area of the neighborhood, according to Cuomo, who announced the plans as part of his State of the State address.
Quote:
-14 new building sites being made available to create up to 1,400 units of affordable housing and 20 million square feet of retail

-Empire Station Complex, a major expansion of Penn Station that would add 40 percent more capacity through eight new tracks, as well as two new cross-river train tunnels through the Gateway Project

-Expanding the Javits Convention Center by 50 percent, or about 1.2 million square feet

-Replacing Port Authority Bus Complex with a new facility that adds commercial space and removes bus traffic

-A 1,200-foot extension of the High Line elevated park, running eastward through the Manhattan West housing complex and connecting to the new Moynihan Train Hall

-A second High Line extension heading north and connecting via a pedestrian bridge to Pier 76 on the Hudson River, which will become a public park once the NYPD abandons its tow pound there










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  #469  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 4:37 AM
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Another look at the renderings, which remind me somewhat of the JDS proposal. Whatever eventually gets built will somewhat resemble this as well, as have all of the renderings the governor has shown.


The JDS version...










Renderings from the governor's proposal, which is more streamlined...the most important factor is that it will be open to daylight.




























https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...n=true#image=2



Cuomo's New Deal

Video Link
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Last edited by NYguy; Jan 15, 2021 at 5:10 AM.
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  #470  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 3:26 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/2021/01/14/c...-west-project/

Cuomo adds housing to $51B Midtown West project
Development could include 1,400 affordable units



January 14
By Kathryn Brenzel


Quote:
The state’s massive development plans for the area surrounding Penn Station now includes affordable housing.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Thursday that the 20 million square feet of development planned for the neighborhood would not only include retail and commercial space, but also housing — a significant chunk of it affordable.

Officials had previously drafted a proposal to develop 10 buildings with more than 1,000 hotel rooms and 14 million square feet of office space, according to a scope of work issued in December.

But during a briefing to elaborate on his myriad State of the State proposals, Cuomo unveiled more extensive plans, including up to 1,400 affordable units. The governor said the state would make “14 building sites available” for the development and that affordable homes would be the priority.

The four additional buildings are planned for two state-owned sites next to and across the street from the Javits Center, according to state officials.

Empire State Development, the state’s development arm, initially envisioned only commercial space for the eight sites in the immediate vicinity of Penn Station. But in its final plan, the agency opened the door to three of those sites having residential space. To allow for the development of these and the other five sites, the state is seeking to override city zoning regulations to construct larger buildings.

The new buildings around Penn would generate revenue to help pay for the station’s redevelopment. The state plans to add another eight tracks by acquiring a block south of Penn, which contains 51 separate properties.
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  #471  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 1:37 AM
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i just realized that what you see on the left is MSG, so this would be the view looking west, site 2.




https://www.archpaper.com/2021/01/go...elopment-plan/
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  #472  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 3:17 PM
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Another look at some of the Vornado controlled sites in the area...















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  #473  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
i just realized that what you see on the left is MSG, so this would be the view looking west, site 2.




https://www.archpaper.com/2021/01/go...elopment-plan/
That seems to be incorrect, MSG is visible on the right. This looks to be a new North/South Hall between 2 Penn Plaza and MSG on the Penn Site, (Where the parking lot is now). The bridge in the center of the render is where the current bridge to Madison Square Garden is now.
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  #474  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
That seems to be incorrect, MSG is visible on the right. This looks to be a new North/South Hall between 2 Penn Plaza and MSG on the Penn Site, (Where the parking lot is now). The bridge in the center of the render is where the current bridge to Madison Square Garden is now.

I think you are misinterpreting what you see there. It is clearly labeled as Empire South in the rendering, which is below 31st Street.

The bridge from 2 Penn to MSG runs over an active driveway (I cut through it frequently). That will remain. The concourses will be connected underground.










This is the entrance to Penn that is taking shape on the northern (33rd St) side:







For better context, this is the version of the same new train hall as it was proposed by JDS development a few years ago. In it you can clearly see MSG and the Farley Building (Moynihan) which gives the perspective looking west.










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  #475  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I think you are misinterpreting what you see there. It is clearly labeled as Empire South in the rendering, which is below 31st Street.

The bridge from 2 Penn to MSG runs over an active driveway (I cut through it frequently). That will remain. The concourses will be connected underground.
The 'Empire south' sign would be indicating that ES is directly ahead (that passage goes under 31st Street). All the track numbers for the signs are existing tracks at Penn, right where they currently are within the station, the rendering seems pretty grounded in reality.

The renderings for 2 penn plaza all predate whatever plans the state is making for penn/empire station, and from a tax lot perspective 2 PP is its own property that Vornado owns, so that's the focus of their images.

Now that the state is firming up plans for the district things are changing, and they seem to be trying to figure out what the station will be with a renovated 2 penn plaza and MSG still in place. That driveway is a huge opportunity to bring light and access to the center of the station, and is criminally underused in its current state.
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  #476  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
The 'Empire south' sign would be indicating that ES is directly ahead (that passage goes under 31st Street). All the track numbers for the signs are existing tracks at Penn, right where they currently are within the station, the rendering seems pretty grounded in reality.

The renderings for 2 penn plaza all predate whatever plans the state is making for penn/empire station, and from a tax lot perspective 2 PP is its own property that Vornado owns, so that's the focus of their images.

You can look at the renderings and see why what you are saying doesn't work, it just isn't feasible. Now, there are plans to make more improvements to the existing station, but that's a separate process involving the railroads.


These aren't just older renderings. This is what's getting buit as we speak.















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  #477  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
You can look at the renderings and see why what you are saying doesn't work, it just isn't feasible. Now, there are plans to make more improvements to the existing station, but that's a separate process involving the railroads.


These aren't just older renderings. This is what's getting buit as we speak.
It's certainly feasible.

The LIRR concourse that is under renovation sits under 33rd street outside of the block, and the current escalators to the upper level of penn sit under 2PP, its renovation is independent and doesn't conflict with what we see in the rendering.

The rendering shows a new and expanded Penn upper level that sits approximately between the LIRR main hall/njtransit and the central concourse/main hall.

Maps by Jason Gibbs are helpful for understanding how things stack up at penn:
https://jasongibbs.com/pennstation/download.php
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  #478  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2021, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
It's certainly feasible.

The LIRR concourse that is under renovation sits under 33rd street outside of the block, and the current escalators to the upper level of penn sit under 2PP, its renovation is independent and doesn't conflict with what we see in the rendering.

The rendering shows a new and expanded Penn upper level that sits approximately between the LIRR main hall/njtransit and the central concourse/main hall.

Maps by Jason Gibbs are helpful for understanding how things stack up at penn:
https://jasongibbs.com/pennstation/download.php

The difference between upper and lower Penn levels aren't that great.






This is the main concourse level as you approach the area just beneath the bridge (the 2 stairways lead to the drive-thru)...



https://www.nbcnewyork.com/traffic/t...ights/2399248/



NJ Transit is currently undergoing design work to extend the central concourse, but eventually all of the lower level concourses will extend south to the expanded station.












The expanded layout will be as follows...






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  #479  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2021, 12:37 AM
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"Expanding the Javits Convention Center by 50 percent, or about 1.2 million square feet" - it's really too bad they did not relocate the center to Long Island City decades ago.
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  #480  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2021, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
"Expanding the Javits Convention Center by 50 percent, or about 1.2 million square feet" - it's really too bad they did not relocate the center to Long Island City decades ago.
They were going to move it to Aqueduct, but Genting backed out of paying for it. We're stuck with it in it's current location for now.

There was a potential MSG/Javits combo, along the lines of the Jets/Javits combo some years back, but obviously that won't be happening...



https://meisstudio.com/madison-squar...yzrvw2qboimujj








[IMG][/IMG]



And this was a proposal for the Manhattan West site...







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