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  #741  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:23 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
Likewise. You bring nothing useful to the forum other than your baseless bias, and not only about São Paulo, but St. Louis, Detroit or whatever the place you know about it.
You're most well known for holding strong opinions about places you've never set foot. I've been to São Paulo, St. Louis, and Detroit. Which of those cities have you actually been to that you can offer your personal perspective on?
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  #742  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:25 PM
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I think you are overstating Ukraine's ability to reverse 50 years of structural decline. Ukraine will still be more or less the same as it was before the war
Seriously?

Nothing in that part of the world will be "more or less the same as it was before the war". Europe, and Russia, are changed forever. Germany has tanks in Ukraine. The Kremlin is in a succession war. China is eying Siberia. The Caucuses are in low grade war. NATO is expanding. Japan is becoming a Taiwan-like fortress. We probably won't be around when the next paradigm change happens.
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  #743  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Ukrainian refugees have not been granted permanent residency in the EU. Most will likely have to return to Ukraine when the conflict is over.
An article written two weeks after the war started... Those people will never return. An immigrant richly being paid in Euros in the civilized Germany to come back to a country with Sub-Saharan Africa socioeconomics? Croats don't go back to Croatia, which is almost a developed country. Obviously Ukrainians won't go back to Ukraine.

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If true, fine for Canada, but largely irrelevant. The vast, vast majority of Ukranians are in Europe, and they're going back.

If Canada wants to keep all displaced refugees to further feed their housing ponzi scheme, while destabilizing Ukraine, that's their call, but Europe, the U.S. and allies intend to rebuild Ukraine via trillions in seized Russian assets and a return of Ukranians to Ukraine, so this never happens again.
Crawford are you saying Germans and Polish will hoard and expel people back to the East as they did 80 years ago. Do you have any idea how absurd and politically toxic that sounds?
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  #744  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:29 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
An article written two weeks after the war started... Those people will never return. An immigrant richly being paid in Euros in the civilized Germany to come back to a country with Sub-Saharan Africa socioeconomics? Croats don't go back to Croatia, which is almost a developed country. Obviously Ukrainians won't go back to Ukraine.
Do you really not understand the concept of citizenship? Ukrainians do not have the right to work in these other countries unless they hold citizenship or permanent residency status. The vast majority are in these Ukrainian refugees are under a temporary residency status. When the conflict is over the status goes away and they become illegal. They will not have the right to work.
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  #745  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
You're most well known for holding strong opinions about places you've never set foot. I've been to São Paulo, St. Louis, and Detroit. Which of those cities have you actually been to that you can offer your personal perspective on?
São Paulo being uptight, conservative and with no party scene (when the city is exactly the opposite)? St. Louisans being hicks in Manhattan? Detroit where you're corrected by locals every single time you mention it?

I obviously comment on places I've never been to but that I bothered to study in details. I certainly don't give bigoted, uninformed opinions though.
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  #746  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:34 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
São Paulo being uptight, conservative and with no party scene (when the city is exactly the opposite)? St. Louisians being hicks in Manhattan?

I obviously comment on places I've never been too (but that I bothered to study in details), but I certainly don't give bigoted, uninformed opinions.
"Studied in detail" lol. I can study the moon in detail, but doesn't mean I can tell Buzz Aldrin what it's actually like to be there.

I've actually never said anything about St. Louisians being "hicks in Manhattan" so I have no idea what you're talking about.
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  #747  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by other refugees don't get this treatment. Are you saying that European countries don't take in refugees?

In the unlikely situation that Russia wins and takes over all of Ukrainian territory, the refugees would likely be eligible for asylum in the countries where they fled. If Ukraine maintains its independence, there is no basis for an asylum claim.
When you apply for refugee status you are not able to work in the country until you have gone through a refugee hearing which can take up to a year. Only after a decision in the hearing is made in your favour are you give work permits. until the hearing the refugees are usually keep in a detainment facility until then

By giving Ukrainians work permit and residency status right away it means they aren't going back to Ukraine
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  #748  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Do you really not understand the concept of citizenship? Ukrainians do not have the right to work in these other countries unless they hold citizenship or permanent residency status. The vast majority are in these Ukrainian refugees are under a temporary residency status. When the conflict is over the status goes away and they become illegal. They will not have the right to work.
Do you understand the concept of immigration? Do you understand the concept of postponing those measures till they feel it's appropriate? Do you see the popular uproar if they decide to expel those Ukrainians if they don't want to leave?

We're talking about Germany here, a country that welcomed millions and millions of foreigners on the past decade and they're very determined to bring more and more. They just opened a program to attract non-European immigrants by which people don't even need to speak German to apply. That's not Trump's US.

About Poland, well, they got "perfect immigrants". They boosted their population by 1.5 million. Who would move to Poland otherwise? And for the relief of very racist Polish society, they're not brown people.


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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
"Studied in detail" lol. I can study the moon in detail, but doesn't mean I can tell Buzz Aldrin what it's actually like to be there.
I'm not speaking about "feeling there": I discuss cities from demographics point of view, urban morphology, etc. etc. That's what do in this forum. Have you been to all the US cities you made any comments about it?

You, on the other hand, believe you know more a city (whose language you don't even speak) than a local living there.

P.S. There are certainly people who know way more about the Moon than Buzz Aldrin. Poor example.
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  #749  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Do you really not understand the concept of citizenship? Ukrainians do not have the right to work in these other countries unless they hold citizenship or permanent residency status. The vast majority are in these Ukrainian refugees are under a temporary residency status. When the conflict is over the status goes away and they become illegal. They will not have the right to work.
They are just saying that now so the double standard isn't so obvious, most likely the status will be renewed, or they will be given permanent status, again these are white Europeans so the rules with other refuges don't apply.
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  #750  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Seriously?

Nothing in that part of the world will be "more or less the same as it was before the war". Europe, and Russia, are changed forever. Germany has tanks in Ukraine. The Kremlin is in a succession war. China is eying Siberia. The Caucuses are in low grade war. NATO is expanding. Japan is becoming a Taiwan-like fortress. We probably won't be around when the next paradigm change happens.
You literally left off the rest of that sentence where I explicitly mentioned Ukraine becoming more militarized. That's all that will likely happen with them. They aren't going to prosper in a post invasion world and will be Checkpoint Charlie for the new status quo...facing down nukes and weapons they helped design.
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  #751  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:45 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Nite View Post
most likely the status will be renewed, or they will be given permanent status, again these are white Europeans so the rules with other refuges don't apply.
That's speculative and has no modern precedence. The precedent is that those without a legal claim to permanent residency will go back to Ukraine if the country survives as an independent territory.
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  #752  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That's speculative and has no modern precedence. The precedent is that those without a legal claim to permanent residency will go back to Ukraine if the country survives as an independent territory.
the EU are big hypocrites with this Ukraine refuges situation. All this talk about it being temporary, is just so they don't look so obviously, after 3 years the Ukrainians will be given permanent status.
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  #753  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:57 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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the EU are big hypocrites with this Ukraine refuges situation. All this talk about it being temporary, is just so they don't look so obviously, after 3 years the Ukrainians will be given permanent status.
Western Europeans don't really like eastern Europeans. It would not be politically popular to wave a magic wand and grant permanent status to them even if they could.
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  #754  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 8:08 PM
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Western Europeans don't really like eastern Europeans. It would not be politically popular to wave a magic wand and grant permanent status to them even if they could.
It would also be a really stupid geopolitical move. Spend trillions in building Ukraine as Europe's shield, then relocate millions of Ukrainians out of Ukraine after you rebuilt their homes, businesses and lives. Maintain a giant near-empty landmass with huge natural resources next to an imploding former empire.

And, yeah, speaking from personal experience, most West Germans can barely stand East Germans. The idea that they want millions of Ukranians bc many are blond or whatever, or bc they aren't Muslim, is weird. Germany is pretty overcrowded, and has bad housing problems and fairly high discontent for post WW2 standards. Not sure of the purpose, given that Germany has historically high immigration levels, right now. They just finally absorbed the many millions of Syrians.
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  #755  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 8:30 PM
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Germany easily absorbed 1 million Syrians, mostly men, very well. Now they even incorporated those 1 million Ukrainians in the stats and broken the 84 million barrier, something unthinkable till few years ago.

I remember forecasts as late as the early 2010’s projecting Germany to be 75 million in the mid-2020’s. They’re 8 million above: loads of Eastern European immigrants and now Syrians and Ukrainians. Those traditional mid-sized German companies are happier than ever as they are very worried about labour shortages. German cities are bustling.

Ok, it’s not appropriate, but damn, Syrians and Ukrainians are a very good mix. But we see, despite all the war horrors, it’s a good thing so many Ukrainians and Syrians found home in a much better society.
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  #756  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 9:47 PM
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Germany easily absorbed 1 million Syrians, mostly men, very well. Now they even incorporated those 1 million Ukrainians in the stats and broken the 84 million barrier, something unthinkable till few years ago.
You pointed out a major problem with refugees from various countries without even mentioning it, while I'm sure everybody on here is basically aware.

Most refugees we've had from Ukraine are women with their kids, while their men are busy on the front line.
We are not going to fuck with those women and their children. We know what they're going through and we'll do everything possible to help/support them.

On the other hand, why do we get mostly men from Arab/ mostly Muslim countries like Syria?
There's something weird or even bad with that in our opinion here.
Call me sexist, I don't care. Women and their kids are not the same as hords of single men with no women.
They are obviously not the same kind of refugees.
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  #757  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 11:38 PM
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You pointed out a major problem with refugees from various countries without even mentioning it, while I'm sure everybody on here is basically aware.

Most refugees we've had from Ukraine are women with their kids, while their men are busy on the front line.
We are not going to fuck with those women and their children. We know what they're going through and we'll do everything possible to help/support them.
Who is "we"? There are plenty of broken marriages in Europe due low straight men fantasies with "cheap" Eastern European/Southeast Asian women.

And amongst 8 million Ukrainian refugees, there are sorts of people, not only this idealized "young blond mothers with their blond babies".

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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
On the other hand, why do we get mostly men from Arab/ mostly Muslim countries like Syria?
There's something weird or even bad with that in our opinion here.
Call me sexist, I don't care. Women and their kids are not the same as hords of single men with no women.
They are obviously not the same kind of refugees.
Well, I've heard that excuse to dodge criticism on obvious racism. Attitudes towards Ukraine were completely different from Syria or Iraq, way before refugees come in and being brutalized by Eastern European mobs. Clearly it shows how hardcore racism is embedded in and in the US mainstream societies. Racism is so so strong they don't even realize.

And it's indeed very sexist. Ukraine is an organized state that can and did prevent men to leave in order to fight their war. They made tens of thousands of men to turn back on the borders, splitting them from their families.

Syria was in a messy civil war. It's much easier for men and women to leave. Moreover, Syria is a much younger society than Ukraine. Think of yourself. I gather you're a young-ish man, right? Wouldn't you leave a civil war nightmare, with Isis beheading people for fun?
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  #758  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 12:10 AM
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^ Arrête de délirer...

The fact that we get many more men than women from Muslim countries only shows that radical Islam is at work against us.
Do you know what they do to gay people? I won't tell you cause it's gruesome.
It is unbearable.

And radical Muslims force women to wear religious veils like fucking nuns that lost their lives just to say - those are our women, not yours, and we will take yours.

It is the basic policy when it comes to radical Islam. Everyone knows it now.
We must stop lying to ourselves on behalf of anti-racism.

I'm not a racist. I'm a French citizen and I know quite a few countrymen of mine with some Muslim and Arab background that I'm quite proud of.
I know some that I regard as better than I am.

This is not about any race or ethnicity. It's not even about religion or faith in God.
It is just an ideoligal fight and politics.

Do you care about women? I do. I don't want to see them forced to get dressed as sorry nuns, huh.
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  #759  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
^ Arrête de délirer...

The fact that we get many more men than women from Muslim countries only shows that radical Islam is at work against us.
Do you know what they do to gay people? I won't tell you cause it's gruesome.
It is unbearable.

And radical Muslims force women to wear religious veils like fucking nuns that lost their lives just to say - those are our women, not yours, and we will take yours.

It is the basic policy when it comes to radical Islam. Everyone knows it now.
We must stop lying to ourselves on behalf of anti-racism.
And how do you know refugees are necessarily radical Muslim? For instance, I saw plenty of (hot) Syrian-looking guys on Berlin gay nightclubs.

There are like 1.5 million Syrians in Europe and the continent is operating normally. I used to adhere to this paranoia up to the 2018 or so, but it's clearly paranoia and racism. Gladly I got over.


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I'm not a racist. I'm a French citizen and I know quite a few countrymen of mine with some Muslim and Arab background that I'm quite proud of.
I know some that I regard as better than I am.

This is not about any race or ethnicity. It's not even about religion or faith in God.
It is just an ideoligal fight and politics.

Do you care about women? I do. I don't want to see them forced to get dressed as sorry nuns, huh.
I'm completely lost here. I don't disguise my contempt towards Eastern European societies due their regressive nature (not the whole society, of course, but the majority), so I'm certainly the last person to say anything good about radical Islam (or just regular Islam for that matter).

The thing is, White-Christian people don't see other races/cultures as equals, be it in Brazil, South Africa, Europe or the US. That's why you have this bizarre difference on how media covered wars in Ukraine and Iraq.

We'll never see White Americans like iheartheed or Crawford fantasizing about Iraq or Syria becoming superpowers and calling their enemies "orcs". No, that's only for blond people. And sure, each one with their own fetiches, but what annoys me it's how people don't realize they're being racist/bigoted/biased. You can be whatever you want, but admit it.
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  #760  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 4:08 AM
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We're getting off topic, this thread is about demographics not who is(n't) racist. Save that crap for CE.
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