Hot cities or cold cities; 4 seasons or no seasons; desert cities or green cities?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

If you fly from Southern California to...anywhere east of St. Louis in May or June, the greenness is overwhelming. It seems more green today than when I was a kid in the 1980s thanks to the Clean Air Act and the continued maturing of the forests following their logging in the 1800s. We've also had mostly mild and wet summers since 2000. The 1988 drought (https://web.archive.org/web/20061211.../drought88.pdf) was a 1,000-year event that did a lot of damage to the region's trees.

Definitely... I had to connect in DFW, and the stark, unending brownness viewed from my window all the way from LA really gives a sense of the vast openness of the southwest.

Flying out of LAX is always cool -- rising right over the beach and the Pacific with the rugged coastline of the Santa Monica range/Malibu, LA basin, and San Gabriel mountains backdrop. But it really gives you the viewpoint to recognize just how BROWN everything is... likely accentuated now with the drought.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Definitely... I had to connect in DFW, and the stark, unending brownness viewed from my window all the way from LA really gives a sense of the vast openness of the southwest.

Flying out of LAX is always cool -- rising right over the beach and the Pacific with the rugged coastline of the Santa Monica range/Malibu, LA basin, and San Gabriel mountains backdrop. But it really gives you the viewpoint to recognize just how BROWN everything is... likely accentuated now with the drought.

Yes, which is why my favorite time of year in LA is the winter. The hills turn green and even though it's not nearly as lush as summer in the east, it still feels very verdant.

I find summertime in Northern CA to be a bit more 'golden' than the browns and beiges of Southern CA, but maybe that's not true. The drought hasn't really changed the color of the hills, I don't think. They're usually pretty dry and brown by this time of year. It definitely has had an impact on neighborhood greenery, though. A lot of yards and parkways have turned brown or reverted to dirt/dust since the water restrictions have been implemented. It's actually pretty disheartening to see, but a reminder that LA is not naturally some green, tree-filled landscape. Extensive irrigation gives the impression that LA is almost tropical-- palm trees, exotic flowers and ferns, etc. But really it's a pretty arid and treeless place, outside of the canyons and mountains.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

Yes, which is why my favorite time of year in LA is the winter. The hills turn green and even though it's not nearly as lush as summer in the east, it still feels very verdant.

I find summertime in Northern CA to be a bit more 'golden' than the browns and beiges of Southern CA, but maybe that's not true. The drought hasn't really changed the color of the hills, I don't think. They're usually pretty dry and brown by this time of year. It definitely has had an impact on neighborhood greenery, though. A lot of yards and parkways have turned brown or reverted to dirt/dust since the water restrictions have been implemented. It's actually pretty disheartening to see, but a reminder that LA is not naturally some green, tree-filled landscape. Extensive irrigation gives the impression that LA is almost tropical-- palm trees, exotic flowers and ferns, etc. But really it's a pretty arid and treeless place, outside of the canyons and mountains.

Interesting. I've only ever been on southern California in the summertime, so I'll have to visit when it's cold as hell here. Though I do love the beaches, so the hot summer weather is nice.

Even though I notice the brown/beiges of everything, I really appreciate the beauty of Los Angeles' setting... seeing it from the air never gets old for me.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by pj3000

the vast openness of the southwest

AKA a wasteland.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

AKA a wasteland.

Th Southwest has the most varied environments and climates anywhere Jut look at a climate map of Cali, AZ, UT, Co and NM the "Southwest states, even just limit it to AZ and NM




Everything from Sand Dune deserts to above treeline alpine barrens and everything in between in relatively close proximity. All the pictures below are barely more than a 3 hour drive from any other location starting with the Glammis sand dunes and moving outward. it gets even more varried if I expand the circle to a 10 hour drive from the Dunes. Compare that to say.... Memphis, where its the same climate for hundreds of miles in every direction.

[JManc]

Going from Houston where it's lush, green and rainy (just not this spring and summer) to the Bay Area where it's cooler and drier.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Th Southwest has the most varied environments and climates anywhere Jut look at a climate map of Cali, AZ, UT, Co and NM the "Southwest states, even just limit it to AZ and NM




Everything from Sand Dune deserts to above treeline alpine barrens and everything in between in relatively close proximity. All the pictures below are barely more than a 3 hour drive from any other location starting with the Glammis sand dunes and moving outward. it gets even more varried if I expand the circle to a 10 hour drive from the Dunes. Compare that to say.... Memphis, where its the same climate for hundreds of miles in every direction.

Exactly... You could hit all those micro climates within 1 hour of downtown Los Angeles. The southwest is a "Wasteland" aka the most diverse topography in the country

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I like anything between 60F and 90F with low humidity. I'm not a fan of high humidity, especially when the air temp gets past 70F, but I'll take humidity over 30F weather if I have to choose.

My preferred temp. range is 50 to 75F. I find 50-55F refreshing for a nice walk, with a light coat, if it is sunny or at least not raining. 50-55F is also a good cozy sleeping temp. I love cool to cold winter nights for sleeping. I also like the sound of light to moderate rain on the roof to relax me to sleep. For warmer weather activities, like the beach or outside barbecues, a sunny 70-75F is warm enough for me...humidity less than 50%.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by 10023

I’ve just come back again from windsurfing (or trying to) in Tarifa, Spain. Perfect weather during the day, and actually quite cold at night, because of the coastal climate and wind. No humidity at all, to the point where you’re slathering on moisturizer twice a day.

It’s the southernmost point in continental Europe but the climate is similar to somewhere like Monterey (which is at almost the same latitude), not even SoCal.

Nearby Gibraltar is like that. Very nice oceanic climate with moderate temps usually. More precipitation than you would expect, about 30 inches a year, seven inches more than San Francisco. Southern Spain doesn't get really dry until you move inland to the east. La Mancha gets less than 12" a year. Almost desert. Coastal and inland southeastern Spain is quite semiarid. Valencia under 18". The central plateau of Spain is also quite dry, because it is in the rain shadow of mountains. I recall that Madrid and Toledo get less than 20" of precip. per year. The countryside is quite brown.

[10023]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Nearby Gibraltar is like that. Very nice oceanic climate with moderate temps usually. More precipitation than you would expect, about 30 inches a year, seven inches more than San Francisco. Southern Spain doesn't get really dry until you move inland to the east. La Mancha gets less than 12" a year. Almost desert. Coastal and inland southeastern Spain is quite semiarid. Valencia under 18". The central plateau of Spain is also quite dry, because it is in the rain shadow of mountains. I recall that Madrid and Toledo get less than 20" of precip. per year. The countryside is quite brown.

In the summer and fall yes, in the winter and spring it can be green. There are a lot of microclimates and nice areas like the valley around Oropesa. But I also really like that Spanish dehesa landscape.

England is very pretty when it’s warm and sunny, but that doesn’t happen often, and everywhere looks depressing under overcast skies or in the rain. England also lacks really dramatic scenery until you get way north or into Scotland, and I like mountains.

Also did a road trip once through Extremadura, basically eating jamón and suckling pig. If you want to go somewhere in Europe that feels a bit like the American West, that’s it. It’s actually where a lot of the conquistadors hailed from.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

AKA a wasteland.

Georgia O’Keefe disagreed.

The American Southwest (west of I-25) is home to some of the most iconically scenic places in the country, much of it marked by vast mountainous terrain, valleys, and canyons. Even Arizona, which many immediately associate with Phoenix-area suburban sprawl, is a beautiful state full of natural wonders. Have you been to Flagstaff, Sedona, Antelope Canyon? The Grand Canyon? New Mexico (the most underrated state IMO)?

[Crawford]

A place can be a wasteland, but beautiful.

The SW U.S. has waaaay too many people. Limited water, and really silly to put this many people on arid, unproductive land. Of course people have the right to live anywhere, but it was massive federal investments that made this possible. Phoenix should be an outpost, a highway stop between SoCal and TX, not a giant sprawl of 5 million people.

[destroycreate]

I don't have kids but I do have a nephew who is insanely picky and it absolutely drives me crazy. Seems like this generation of kids are being way too mollie-coddled.

My parents would tell me, "you refuse to eat this meal? then you can go to bed with an empty tummy tonight." That's just how it was.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I like anything between 60F and 90F with low humidity. I'm not a fan of high humidity, especially when the air temp gets past 70F, but I'll take humidity over 30F weather if I have to choose.

To double down on this comment, I just took a long walk to get lunch and it feels perfect outside now to me in NYC. Warm with low humidity. I was shocked when I saw 86F on the bus shelter. I thought it was just in the upper 70s. Humidity makes a world of difference.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by JManc

Going from Houston where it's lush, green and rainy (just not this spring and summer) to the Bay Area where it's cooler and drier.

I think you'll enjoy Fremont much more. It's 70-80s with 30-50% humidity all day every day.

[ChrisLA]

86 degrees with low humidity on the West Coast is quite comfortable. Actually living in the San Fernando Valley the humidity is even lower than the LA Basin and temperatures up to 95 degrees in still rather comfortable enough to not even require your air conditioner on. This coming from a person who has a low tolerance for heat.

Now 86 degrees in the eastern part of the USA is unbearably uncomfortable for my taste. It came as a shock to me the first time I’ve experience high humidity. Once it goes above 75 degrees I’m complaining, I don’t like high humidity at all, there is no relief anywhere not in the shade or at the beach

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by ChrisLA

86 degrees with low humidity on the West Coast is quite comfortable. Actually living in the San Fernando Valley the humidity is even lower than the LA Basin and temperatures up to 95 degrees in still rather comfortable enough to not even require your air conditioner on. This coming from a person who has a low tolerance for heat.

Now 86 degrees in the eastern part of the USA is unbearably uncomfortable for my taste. It came as a shock to me the first time I’ve experience high humidity. Once it goes above 75 degrees I’m complaining, I don’t like high humidity at all, there is no relief anywhere not in the shade or at the beach

Yeah, even the low 70s can feel disgusting if the humidity is 100%.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by pj3000

After 2 weeks in Las Vegas and Southern California, I realize how beautiful it is to be back surrounded by lush greenery.

Well Las Vegas and southern California natural landscape looks nothing alike. I can understand enjoying the lush greenery, I like it too. Of course LA does not have the same type of vegetation as much of the eastern half of the country, it does have plenty of greenery especially during the late fall through late spring. Usually around the end of May much of the hillsides grassy areas turn brown. Although a few right now haven’t completely turned brown yet, specifically some I drove past this morning on my way to work through Calabasas. Also there are plenty of hills that have trees that are green have you ever driven through some of the canyons, I just did on Sunday (Malibu canyon)

To me the much of the eastern half of the country looks rather brown and dead once all the leaves fall off and the cold kills off all of the plants during the late fall and winter months. My point is it’s not always green, come to California in December through May and you see what I’m talking about.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The SW U.S. has waaaay too many people. Limited water, and really silly to put this many people on arid, unproductive land. Of course people have the right to live anywhere, but it was massive federal investments that made this possible. Phoenix should be an outpost, a highway stop between SoCal and TX, not a giant sprawl of 5 million people.

Yeah, the population of Arizona, Nevada, and southern California is ridiculous, given the conditions. People do have the right to live anywhere in the US, but they should pay to do so at market rates. That's the American way, right??

I love how southwestern states are constantly lobbying to receive water from the Great Lakes... and at federal taxpayer expense, no less.

Uhhh, yeah... it doesn't work that way. If you want to live in the desert, you have to deal with living in the desert.

[Obadno]

The population of Arizona and Nevada combined is under 10 million not even half of greater LA

SOCAL is overpopulated and despite the nice weather has sever water issues

Arizona does not, New Mexico is on an entirely different t watershed mostly but I haven’t heard of sever issues of water out of New Mexico