NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,200 FT / 388 M | 61 FLOORS

[hartss]

That guy Jones you all quoted is a dolt. This existing hotel is not a good example of the architect's otherwise mostly impressive work. It is an overly large, humdrum example of workaday architecture and is by no means worthy of landmark status. I have walked by it for years watching budget tour participants and unlucky airline crews lining up outside its various entrances hoping that they weren't bringing back bedbugs to their own homes.

A nice, shiny new office building will eventually bring economic vitality to a blighted block, with office workers eager to seek out new places to buy lunch, get haircuts and nails done, etc. It is a win-win for everyone except for Mr. Jones and his motley crew of naysayers.

[BStyles]

I hope the building rises with steel the old fashioned way, and not concrete. I mean concrete lasts longer than steel, especially when exposed to the elements, but let's be critical. A thousand foot office building needs to use steel.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

Originally Posted by NYguy

And that was lost decades ago. It's the specifice zoning that decides how big skyscrapers are now. But it's the zoning that is frequently changed, for various reasons. For example, the far west side of Manhattan was rezoned for large office towers. The area around Penn Station has also been zoned for high rise office development, and tools are in place for size bonuses generated by transit improvements. This was done by city planning, much of it under Amanda Burden. In effect, this tower is as much a city development as it is Vornado's.

well this actually holds today...conde nast,bofa,NYT tower,twc,etc. there rlly are no midblock supertalls

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork

well this actually holds today...conde nast,bofa,NYT tower,twc,etc. there rlly are no midblock supertalls

Don't know what you're talking about, but that was a reference to this quote:

The original idea of the street grid, is to put big towers on the avenues.

There are many large towers midblock now. As far as supertalls, there are only a handful in Manhattan anyway. Zoning is really what dictates size and height, even the form of buildings today. And even then, developers can apply for "special" permits to go outside zoning.

[NYguy]

Meanwhile, the Hotel Penn won't be the only building in the area to go, though by far the largest...

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100708/manh...tion-expansion

Business Owners Facing Displacement Threaten to Fight Penn Station Expansion



By Jill Colvin
July 8, 2010

Concerned business owners set to be displaced by the Port Authority’s upcoming Penn Station expansion project demanded information from the agency and threatened to sue to stop the project on Wednesday during the first and only public hearing.

Critics have accused the agency of withholding crucial information about one of the nation's largest transportation projects, the $8.7 billion Access to the Region's Core, which will bore two commuter tunnels under the Hudson River to Midtown and building a new station beside Penn Station. The agency was required to hold a public meeting under the terms of eminent domain law.

No residents will be forced out by the project, but 93 businesses will be displaced, either fully or partially, and thousands will be affected by construction. Even partial evictions could last as long as 10 years, officials said.

"What happens to me?" Adam Gindi, the owner of Diamonds and Dials at 106 W. 34th Street, asked the panel, "I've spent the last year and a half looking for alternative locations, but there's nothing out there. This is devastating."

New Jersey resident Jim Raleigh, 76, who spoke out against the project at the hearing, examines the Port Authority's plans. (DNAinfo/Jill Colvin)Gindi, 46, told DNAinfo later that having to relocate from the store where his family has operated for half a century will put him out of business and added that he is planning to sue to try to stop the takeover.

Howard Sackel, the director of the project for the Port Authority, told those assembled Wednesday that the Authority is "going to make every reasonable attempt to negotiate" with property owners before taking additional steps. But forcible takeover is not off the table, he said.

"If settlements cannot be reached, the Port Authority proposes to use eminent domain, which is the purpose of this meeting," Sackel told those assembled at the Hotel Pennsylvania.

Joseph Clift, 60, speaking on behalf of the Regional Rail Working Group, accused the authority of demolishing buildings and taking land that it doesn't really need.

"It’s not necessary," he said. "People who are going to be displaced should fight it."

Others, however, touted the benefits of the project, which aims to double commuter capacity between New Jersey and midtown, create thousands of jobs and bring billions in revenue to the city, according the project's website.

Thomas Wright, executive director of the Regional Plan Association, said that the city's transportation infrastructure is heavily stressed and that the project is crucial for its future.

"It’s difficult to see how the region will grow without the expansion this project represents," Wright said.

Construction has already begun on the New Jersey side of the tunnel and work is expected to begin in Manhattan later this year. The main work in midtown is slated to begin in late 2011, Sackel said.

Critics have complained that the Port Authority has shared little information with those facing displacement as a result of the project, except through the press.

Opponents also accuse the agency of failing to provide time lines for the construction or a breakdown of which parts of buildings will need to be evacuated, despite the fact that the plans are public.

"All we can tell is that there's a temporary easement of unknown duration and unknown zones," said Jamie Dickinson, who spoke on behalf of the 152 W. 34th Street Realty Association.

Dickinson blamed the agency with trying to get a "permanent carte blanche veto power over our development rights."

Several affected business owners also requested alterations to the plans, including switching certain buildings from one side of the street or one side of a site to the other to limit the impact on residents and businesses.

The Port Authority will accept comments in writing until 5 p.m. on July 28.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

use eminent domain....get this thing built...

[BStyles]

You gotta love eminent domain.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Beautiful tower, I hope it gets built.

[scalziand]

^From what I gather in the article, the eminent domain usage would be for work on the tunnels under the Hudson River, not the tower.

[Dac150]

An anchor tenant stepping up to back this project wouldn’t hurt. That may be premature, but if any interest from a major potential tenant arises, let it be heard.

<Calling Morgan Stanley>

[gttx]

Originally Posted by BStyles

I hope the building rises with steel the old fashioned way, and not concrete. I mean concrete lasts longer than steel, especially when exposed to the elements, but let's be critical. A thousand foot office building needs to use steel.

Wait....what?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by scalziand

^From what I gather in the article, the eminent domain usage would be for work on the tunnels under the Hudson River, not the tower.

Correct. Vornado already owns the hotel, so they can close it whenever the time is right for them.

Originally Posted by Dac150

An anchor tenant stepping up to back this project wouldn’t hurt.

That's exactly right. Vornado has stated it wouldn't start without an anchor tenant, even with all permits in place. The thing is to get the tower approved now, and worry about tenants later. That way, whenever they do land a tenant, there'll be no need for a lengthy approval process, and things can proceed quickly.

[RobertWalpole]

Vornado will get a tenant. Morgan Stanley is the prime candidate, but there are MANY huge leases that will expire in a few years.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

Vornado will get a tenant. Morgan Stanley is the prime candidate, but there are MANY huge leases that will expire in a few years.

Not only that, but in Midtown, where let's face it, most of these companies want to go, there is no new office space under construction. When the dam burst, it will burst.

[Dac150]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Midtown, where let's face it, most of these companies want to go.

Very true.

[Zerton]

Originally Posted by BStyles

I hope the building rises with steel the old fashioned way, and not concrete. I mean concrete lasts longer than steel, especially when exposed to the elements, but let's be critical. A thousand foot office building needs to use steel.

what are you talking about?

[BStyles]

Aren't all office supertalls erected with steel? I'm saying I hope this rises being built with steel instead of concrete, which is what they're using nowadays.

[iAgis1]

There could be a bit of competition between Vornado's 15 Penn and Silverstein's WTC 2 and 3, which currently lack tenants.

[UrbaniDesDev]

I'm not clear, I this to go where the Pennsylvanian is?
I would love to see the Hotel Pennsylvania restored, I don't see that happening.

I stayed there last year, thinking how convenient it will be for me to step out of Penn Station and right into my hotel instead of the nightmare that is Times Square or just getting a cab outside of Penn Station to go anywhere else.

It was a nightmare.
there was a 40 minute wait to check-in. The lobby was full of BUS TOUR types.
The room stank and the sink was hanging off the wall by its pipes.
I just can't see investors lining up to save it.

The problem is, what will be saved in NYC?
The 6 story tenements mostly can go, and are. But a once grand hotel? Particularly with Penn Stations history. Where does it end?

Part of the experience of visiting NY was to emerge from Penn Station and walk into an affordable hotel. It wasn't exactly cheap, about the same as hotels near Time Square. I hate staying near Times Square. I thought this would be a nice alternative. Easy in, easy out.
It wasn't but it could have been. There will be no alternative near the station. It will all be luxury.
What's next Macys?

Nothing that will be built around the new station will be considered affordable. It will be geared all toward commuters, not the millions of travelers, many of them young, that descend on Manhattan from Amtrak. The repercussions will be deep. There doesn’t seem to be much consideration being given to travelers. It will not be a warm welcome. I guess it never really was, but it was familiar.
I guess its inevitable

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by UrbaniDesDev

The problem is, what will be saved in NYC?
The 6 story tenemants mostly can go, and are. But a once grand hotel? Particularly with Penn Stations history. Where does it end?

It will end where it ends. About 95 % of Manhattan is covered in buildings that have stood for a century, or close to it. It's not as if someone has come in and decided to bulldoze the entire island into the river. As previously stated, New York is not some living museum. It's a real, ever-changing, and expanding city. There will be change, and thankfully so. Obviously not everything will go, especially when you consider the majority of Manhattan will have no commercial development.

Part of the experience of visiting NY was to emerge from Penn Station and walk into an affordable hotel.

Well, if we were back in the glory days of rail transportation, where people traveled from city to city by rail (as opposed to flying), I might agree with you. But as it is now, the majority of people coming in and out of Penn Station are commuters, which is why it's only logical that the neighborhood should be transformed into a large commercial district. The unfortunate thing is that even with the demolishment of the Hotel Penn, the immediate area is restricted in growth by the neighborhoods to the south.