Canadian Maps and Graphics

[someone123]

I am not sure what thread to put this in but I thought this transportation plan for Halifax from 1973 was interesting.

It's pretty reasonable and shows a lot of stuff that was either built, is now planned, or would make sense today. The second ferry was built around 1980 and the third ferry is in planning stages today. Burnside (largest industrial area) is much larger today and the second highway is finally being built, but along a less sensible arrangement (south of the lake, apparently due to land ownership issues). The 6-lane 102 corridor is still needed.

The Northwest Arm bridge could be really nice (not just for commuting but for recreational purposes with people walking and cycling to mainland park-like areas) and useful but isn't being contemplated. It's too bad it was never built in an earlier era; it was proposed in the late 40's.

Originally Posted by q12

50 years ago in 1973 the Metropolitan area planning committee had planned most of what we needed for our growing city in 2023.

All of this: (And remember we had a form Commuter rail in 1973)

• Planning for 6 lanes on the Bi-Hi (current overpass/underpasses are constructed to 6-lane widths)
• Urban Transit Nodes
• Express Bus Routes
• Ferry from Bedford
• North West Arm(Dunbrack) bridge connector to the Peninsula

[MolsonExport]

[someone123]

I think Montreal might be the biggest city I have been to in the developed world that doesn't have a train to the airport. A lot of visitors would probably just assume there is a train somewhere at YUL.

[MolsonExport]

Mirabel was supposed to be the main airport for Montreal, complete with direct freeway and train access (neither of which came to fruition) and then there was the extremely powerful taxi lobbying to keep out a direct airport link to downtown.

Toronto hasn't had their direct link for very long (and it is mighty expensive, like everything about Pearson, which went from first to worst).

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Toronto hasn't had their direct link for very long (and it is mighty expensive, like everything about Pearson, which went from first to worst).

It was certainly overpriced when it opened but I don’t think $12 for an adult or $25 for a family pass is an unreasonable price to get to union in 25 mins. That’s a lot cheaper and quicker than an Uber or cab. The former costs about $55 to get to my place from Pearson.

Most express airport trains charge a premium from my experience. Even some regular transit options add a fee, like Chicago’s blue line from O’Hare - which is $5USD and about 40 mins. Cheaper but much slower.

Honestly I can’t say I’ve had a bad experience at Pearson lately compared to other airports, and while pricey it doesn’t seem noticeably worse than average in North America. My worst experiences in the past year were in Frankfurt and Berlin by far. Beer didn’t seem any cheaper in Montreal and was more expensive in Chicago.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think Montreal might be the biggest city I have been to in the developed world that doesn't have a train to the airport. A lot of visitors would probably just assume there is a train somewhere at YUL.

Melbourne was a big disappointment to me in that respect.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by niwell

It was certainly overpriced when it opened but I don’t think $12 for an adult or $25 for a family pass is an unreasonable price to get to union in 25 mins. That’s a lot cheaper and quicker than an Uber or cab. The former costs about $55 to get to my place from Pearson.

Most express airport trains charge a premium from my experience. Even some regular transit options add a fee, like Chicago’s blue line from O’Hare - which is $5USD and about 40 mins. Cheaper but much slower.

Honestly I can’t say I’ve had a bad experience at Pearson lately compared to other airports, and while pricey it doesn’t seem noticeably worse than average in North America. My worst experiences in the past year were in Frankfurt and Berlin by far. Beer didn’t seem any cheaper in Montreal and was more expensive in Chicago.

The UPX is fantastic and very reasonable/convenient.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by niwell

It was certainly overpriced when it opened but I don’t think $12 for an adult or $25 for a family pass is an unreasonable price to get to union in 25 mins. That’s a lot cheaper and quicker than an Uber or cab. The former costs about $55 to get to my place from Pearson.

I'm having a hard time imagining any other transit service from an airport that provides better value than the UPX. It's a baffling statement because $12 is fantastic value for an express train service from the airport. The YUL bus costs $11. The Skytrain is slightly cheaper, but provides an inferior level of service. Most international cities are substantially more expensive.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by niwell

It was certainly overpriced when it opened but I don’t think $12 for an adult or $25 for a family pass is an unreasonable price to get to union in 25 mins. That’s a lot cheaper and quicker than an Uber or cab. The former costs about $55 to get to my place from Pearson.

Most express airport trains charge a premium from my experience. Even some regular transit options add a fee, like Chicago’s blue line from O’Hare - which is $5USD and about 40 mins. Cheaper but much slower.

Honestly I can’t say I’ve had a bad experience at Pearson lately compared to other airports, and while pricey it doesn’t seem noticeably worse than average in North America. My worst experiences in the past year were in Frankfurt and Berlin by far. Beer didn’t seem any cheaper in Montreal and was more expensive in Chicago.

I drove to Chicago, parked at O'Hare and took the blue line into the downtown loop. It was so nice to have an inexpensive method of travel to the city's downtown, have a reasonable parking rate and not have a problem carrying luggage.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by theman23

I'm having a hard time imagining any other transit service from an airport that provides better value than the UPX. It's a baffling statement because $12 is fantastic value for an express train service from the airport. The YUL bus costs $11. The Skytrain is slightly cheaper, but provides an inferior level of service. Most international cities are substantially more expensive.

It wasn't $12 when I rode it. More like double or triple that amount. I suppose the price has dropped, which is great. I would definitely take it at $12

[theman23]

They cut the price by more than half 7 years ago.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It wasn't $12 when I rode it. More like double or triple that amount. I suppose the price has dropped, which is great. I would definitely take it at $12

It was very expensive when it first started and didn't attract the ridership it should have so prices were dropped. I believe it was just under 30 dollars at first.

Current price for those aged 13-64 is $12.35. Seniors $ 6.20 and it's free for those 12 and under. The family price is $25.70.
https://www.upexpress.com/en/ways-to...-express-fares

[MonkeyRonin]

It's cheaper with a Presto card, and doubly so if you're not going all the way to Union - only $5 to get to Dundas West station on the Bloor line for example.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am not sure what thread to put this in but I thought this transportation plan for Halifax from 1973 was interesting.

You can see why that Dunbrack bridge over the Arm never materialized. The residents of Marlborough Woods are not exactly hungry to be displaced by a MacPass lane.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

You can see why that Dunbrack bridge over the Arm never materialized. The residents of Marlborough Woods are not exactly hungry to be displaced by a MacPass lane.

It would have been really ugly if built in the 70's but probably nice if built in the 50's or earlier, and it could still be nice today. It would just need 2-3 lanes and could be for transit, bikes, and pedestrians only. A gondola is another possibility.

I get the feeling these days that when people talk about bridges and jump to how horrible they would be they envision freeway-like bridges and ugly low bid engineering. They are widening Robie and they allowed the ugly car lot demos around there which was far worse than the minimum needed for a Northwest Arm bridge.

Halifax in the prewar era was unfortunately a bit small for its geography and these days there is a sense that urbanism has to shy away from nature or public space for environmental or quality of life reasons (with less developed areas implicitly being considered better). You're not allowed to build apartment buildings close to any lake for example.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by someone123

It would have been really ugly if built in the 70's but probably nice if built in the 50's or earlier, and it could still be nice today.

I don't doubt that it could be nice, but the nature of the property owners on both sides of the Arm, from RNSYS to the South End, is the overwhelming obstacle.

It could be the Rialto and the people off Purcell's Cove Road and lower South Street would make it their business to gum up the works.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by theman23

I'm having a hard time imagining any other transit service from an airport that provides better value than the UPX. It's a baffling statement because $12 is fantastic value for an express train service from the airport. The YUL bus costs $11. The Skytrain is slightly cheaper, but provides an inferior level of service. Most international cities are substantially more expensive.

But the $12 fare in Montreal gives access to the entire transit network (buses, metros, REM and suburban trains) in zone A (which covers the entire island of Montreal plus Nun's island and Bizard Island, for a period of 24 hours.

I find that it's a good deal.

[theman23]

It really isn’t. The bus is a crowded and miserable ride that lacks even air conditioning. Unless you’re poor or just want to ride it for the sake of having the experience, avoid at all costs. Just take a cab and buy a day pass when you get into the city.

[harls]

I took the Park n Fly option on my trip from Ottawa to Winnipeg. It was 93 bucks for a week. The free shuttle is 5 mins from the airport.

Taking a taxi from my place in Aylmer back and for would have been over $50 each way.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by harls

I took the Park n Fly option on my trip from Ottawa to Winnipeg. It was 93 bucks for a week. The free shuttle is 5 mins from the airport.

Taking a taxi from my place in Aylmer back and for would have been over $50 each way.

I'll never use Park 'n Fly again. Got boned twice at the one at Pearson -- the shuttle was extremely laggard both times, but on the second occasion the driver was late AND missed the stop I was at (and there were other people there too; we all kept looking, saw it coming, then some collective swearing ensued)... I was so late for check-in I had to reschedule to a later flight. This was at the mid-price self-park lot. I should have just braved traffic and snow and walked.

• Video Link
(different scenario but same idea ... 0:45 to 2:25)

I park at the airport now, in one of the cheaper sections. For trips longer than a week or so, it's better to book a limo especially for more than one person. There used to be an airport express bus from Hamilton but I don't know if it still exists, or if there's a GO bus route that makes the connection from here. The UPX/GO train/self-drive combo is useful and has a reasonable cost, but just takes so damn long for my journey (not as long as Neal Page's trip home, but relatively speaking it seems so... and the film is probably shorter than the real-life trip-chain even with peak period express trains).