How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City?

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

I agree that masks inside restaurants are mostly silly, but I wouldn't eat inside a restaurant until case rates are much lower anyway.

I’m not following. You are fairly young and healthy and vaccinated. Why are you scared of catching Covid? I’m sure you take greater risks on a daily basis than that

Besides, there is a benefit to getting the Delta variant: immunity

I wouldn’t pay the high rents to live downtown if I couldn’t even enjoy the restaurant scene. You’re throwing your money away. Germaphobes belong in the burbs where you can be safe in your car

[JManc]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Technochratic decisions like public health are best handled by executives who have public health departments and access to modeling, not legislators who lack domain experts in their staff.

In the initial stages, yes, but legislators are there to put a check on their power. A lot of executive decisions are political, not necessarily driven by public health such as your mask mandate.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I’m not following. You are fairly young and healthy and vaccinated. Why are you scared of catching Covid? I’m sure you take greater risks on a daily basis than that

Besides, there is a benefit to getting the Delta variant: immunity

I wouldn’t pay the high rents to live downtown if I couldn’t even enjoy the restaurant scene. You’re throwing your money away. Germaphobes belong in the burbs where you can be safe in your car

My wife is pregnant, it's not worth the risk. And most restaurants offer outdoor seating. And I'm not renting :-p.

[the urban politician]

^ I don’t get what you’re so worried about.

Sounds like you’re buying the fear Kool Aid. Pregnant women can be vaccinated. They pass their antibodies to their fetuses.

Meanwhile, the value proposition of living downtown without enjoying any of the amenities (wait till it gets cold) drops to zero.

If you are that scared, you belong in the suburbs where you can actually live with lots of space, and stay isolated from other people.

It’s a weird little dichotomy today, where the people who seem to be most pro-urban are actually also the most anti-urban in the sense that they are scared of being around other people.

You and I need to swap spaces, because I live in the burbs but have actually been to more Chicago restaurants in the past 3 months than you have. And guess what…..I’m not dead!

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I don’t get what you’re so worried about.

Sounds like you’re buying the fear Kool Aid. Pregnant women can be vaccinated. They pass their antibodies to their fetuses.

Meanwhile, the value proposition of living downtown without enjoying any of the amenities (wait till it gets cold) drops to zero.

If you are that scared, you belong in the suburbs where you can actually live with lots of space, and stay isolated from other people.

It’s a weird little dichotomy today, where the people who seem to be most pro-urban are actually also the most anti-urban in the sense that they are scared of being around other people.

You and I need to swap spaces, because I live in the burbs but have actually been to more Chicago restaurants in the past 3 months than you have. And guess what…..I’m not dead!

I was in Greenland for half of the last 3 months (and also in the UP for one week and in Canada for one week), so would not be surprising. Anyway I went to a restaurant yesterday, I just ate outside. and got takeout for lunch... anyway if I lived in Libertyville, my commute would be hell https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Libe...1629709200!3e3 . No thanks.

And yeah, my wife is vaccinated (got vaccinated before we found out we were pregnant), but even ignoring her less-functional immune system and potential complications for the fetus, having to quarantine for 2 weeks while pregnant would be a huge huge pain (kinda hard to get your ultrasounds like that...).

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

I was in Greenland for half of the last 3 months (and also in the UP for one week and in Canada for one week), so would not be surprising. Anyway I went to a restaurant yesterday, I just ate outside. and got takeout for lunch... anyway if I lived in Libertyville, my commute would be hell https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Libe...1629709200!3e3 . No thanks.

And yeah, my wife is vaccinated (got vaccinated before we found out we were pregnant), but even ignoring her less-functional immune system and potential complications for the fetus, having to quarantine for 2 weeks while pregnant would be a huge huge pain (kinda hard to get your ultrasounds like that...).

I suppose Chicago may get cold in the fall, but for now it's not too unlike San Francisco where outdoor dining is extremely pleasant and nearly all the restaurants offer it. I'm not talking take-out; I'm talking full seated service.

People like tup don't seem to get how much it is NOT a deprivation to take simple measures to avoid the modest odds of a breakthrough case of covid (which, if you are very unlucky, could be a lot nastier than he expects and why take the chance if you aren't missing anything not doing so?).

[the urban politician]

^ Back to sounding like Howard again, I see?

Getting seriously ill from Covid as a healthy vaccinated person is not a “modest” odd. It’s a stupendously low odd.

And you don’t know Chicago if you don’t think you are seriously depriving yourself if you don’t go indoors. For a good 5-6 months per year, anything cultural of worth requires you to be indoors, period.

Anybody who cares about fine dining at some of the top restaurants in the country, best theatre in the country, best museums, shows, events, etc etc will have to be indoors.

If you are scared to do that in perpetuity, then:

Why

The

Hell

Are you living

In the center

Of a world class city?

It. Just. Makes. No. Sense.

This question is for SIGSEG, not for Pedestrian. Howard, we already know that you are irrational and scared of your own shadow at this point.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I don’t get what you’re so worried about.

Sounds like you’re buying the fear Kool Aid. Pregnant women can be vaccinated. They pass their antibodies to their fetuses.

Meanwhile, the value proposition of living downtown without enjoying any of the amenities (wait till it gets cold) drops to zero.

If you are that scared, you belong in the suburbs where you can actually live with lots of space, and stay isolated from other people.

It’s a weird little dichotomy today, where the people who seem to be most pro-urban are actually also the most anti-urban in the sense that they are scared of being around other people.

You and I need to swap spaces, because I live in the burbs but have actually been to more Chicago restaurants in the past 3 months than you have. And guess what…..I’m not dead!

I can kind of get it though from his perspective. Even with passed anti bodies, you never know what the magnitude could be on a new born. Probably just to mitigate the risk of some complications.

Granted its futile because everyone will get it eventually, but hey... if it makes one feel better, mentally to psychologically, eh... let em be.

Also a question of efficiency.

Like it would suck, just suppose, his wife gets it, she's vaccinated, the new born has the anti-bodies, but somehow this leads to some complications even though the new born doesn't get sick sick. Rare.. yes... but in the realm of possibility? Sure.

[the urban politician]

^ One can always relate to irrational fear

I can relate to him too. It’s always easy to say, “I’d rather play it safe”

Nothing hard about that. But cities die when everybody keeps doing that.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Back to sounding like Howard again, I see?

Getting seriously ill from Covid as a healthy vaccinated person is not a “modest” odd. It’s a stupendously low odd.

And you don’t know Chicago if you don’t think you are seriously depriving yourself if you don’t go indoors. For a good 5-6 months per year, anything cultural of worth requires you to be indoors, period.

Anybody who cares about fine dining at some of the top restaurants in the country, best theatre in the country, best museums, shows, events, etc etc will have to be indoors.

If you are scared to do that in perpetuity, then:

Why

The

Hell

Are you living

In the center

Of a world class city?

It. Just. Makes. No. Sense.

This question is for SIGSEG, not for Pedestrian. Howard, we already know that you are irrational and scared of your own shadow at this point.

Who said anything about cultural institutions? It's not like I'm avoiding going inside places, I'm on the red line right now and take the train to work every day. But eating indoors at restaurants is particularly risky, since people can't wear masks while eating and it's an enclosed space and there's no contact tracing. Come winter we'll either forgo going out, if cases don't drop (I think they will) or maybe risk going to a restaurant that requires vaccination if we really really want to for some reason (but why? It's just not that importante to us I guess when we can get takeout). Plus I figure I live downtown for different reasons (convenience+environmental+aesthetic) than you theoretically would, so not sure why you have that level of antagonism. Though, there are probably 5x more places to eat outside in a 5 minute walking radius from my condo than in a 5 minute driving radius of most suburban homes (for some reason, outdoor dining does not seem to be nearly as popular outside cities in the US).

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ One can always relate to irrational fear

I can relate to him too. It’s always easy to say, “I’d rather play it safe”

Nothing hard about that. But cities die when everybody keeps doing that.

There is (obviously) little information about the effect of COVID-19 on newborns. It would be completely unsurprising if it were correlated with poorer health outcomes or lower IQ. Plus my wife is a lot more careful than I am--she won't eat cold cuts or precut fruit from the grocery store while pregnant due to risk of listeria, for example. Ordering at restaurants is an adventure in avoiding uncooked eggs and soft cheeses

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Who said anything about cultural institutions? It's not like I'm avoiding going inside places, I'm on the red line right now and take the train to work every day. But eating indoors at restaurants is particularly risky, since people can't wear masks while eating and it's an enclosed space and there's no contact tracing. Come winter we'll either forgo going out, if cases don't drop (I think they will) or maybe risk going to a restaurant that requires vaccination if we really really want to for some reason (but why? It's just not that importante to us I guess when we can get takeout). Plus I figure I live downtown for different reasons (convenience+environmental+aesthetic) than you theoretically would, so not sure why you have that level of antagonism. Though, there are probably 5x more places to eat outside in a 5 minute walking radius from my condo than in a 5 minute driving radius of most suburban homes (for some reason, outdoor dining does not seem to be nearly as popular outside cities in the US).

He just likes tilting at windmills to justify his own denial of the reasonable measures sensible people choose to take to avoid needless illness and possible hospitalization. How he is allowed to practice medicine with these attitudes and whether his colleagues are aware he holds them is the big mystery because they are so outside the mainstream of medical and scientific opinion.

[the urban politician]

^ Nice try, Howard.

I advise people to get vaccines. I don’t advise them to live in perpetual fear and hide in their basements. Such stupidity does not make one a good healthcare professional, it makes one a germaphobe.

Go back to your basement. The “snerks” are coming back:



Get out, you snerks!

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Nice try, Howard.

I advise people to get vaccines. I don’t advise them to live in perpetual fear and hide in their basements. Such stupidity does not make one a good healthcare professional, it makes one a germaphobe.

Go back to your basement. The “snerks” are coming back:

Get out, you snerks!

You are a disgrace. There's no pretending otherwise at this point. Not only is your medical advice wrong but you can't participate in honest debate without attributing positions to others that they've never taken. The organized and individual medical professionals all over the country are advocating masks indoors, vaccination and avoiding indoor gatherings that are unnecessary but you are saying none of it except the shots is necessary or useful. And you are doing it like a street punk.

[the urban politician]

^ I never said I am opposed to people wearing masks indoors. I was at a mall in Rosemont yesterday and our whole family wore masks pretty much the whole time. But I still went to the mall.

I’m just saying that you are a total germaphobe and irrational. You don’t have the slightest perspective and have become paralyzed with anxiety. That’s a disease worse than Covid at this point, which is one of thousands of viruses that we will face and fight off in our lifetimes. But your anxiety has no cure, sadly.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Which, of course, is not the opinion of "the scientists"; only you and self-centered people like you.

Epidemiologists are not the only arbiters of the correct approach.

They have one goal in mind, which is their job. Perhaps they would be happy with everyone wearing masks indoors for the rest of time. I am not and think people need to be less risk averse, or at least have the freedom to be, in order to have a normal life.

[the urban politician]

^ A lot of doctors also don't agree with the fear-porn around COVID either, trust me. It's bad medicine to humor germaphobes, just as it is to give everybody who has a runny nose a prescription for antibiotics just because they "want one".

When somebody panics about an abnormal CT scan result, for example, it is your job to tell them what this abnormal result actually means. You have a 6 mm nodule in your lung, we will need to repeat a scan in 12 months, but don't worry, it is highly likely to be benign. Allowing people to overreact and panic is NOT what a good healthcare provider does. Acquiescing as patients share exaggerated fears is NOT good medicine, it's lousy medicine.

That applies to COVID. Contrary to Pedestrian's irrational and fear-based views, the risk of serious infection for most vaccinated people is simply too low for most people to not live normal lives. Sure, wear a mask indoors, now plan to get a booster shot, but beyond that you must get on with life. And mental health matters too. Pedestrian's mental health appears to be in jeopardy, and that's tragic. Somebody needs to send him one of these

[Matthew]

Looking back to 1918:
People often take things to an extreme, if we allow them to. Speaking of pets (dogs in a link in the previous post): How about this extreme, below... Ask your state or local health expert, recommending your local mask mandates, for guidance on masking your cat!



https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...uenza-epidemic

But there was genuine fear that pets could carry Spanish influenza. In Allentown, Pennsylvania, one councilman insisted that dogs and cats were responsible for the spread of the illness, proposing that they all be killed or at the very least shaved to prevent more infections. In Phoenix, it was rumored that dogs could carry influenza. Police killed strays, while some people killed their own pets. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, some influenza viruses can pass from certain birds and mammals to humans, though it’s rare for them to directly make the jump to people.

[EmmaOlivia]

You can die in whatever reason like pre existing illness or not. What we can do now is to improve our immune system and stay away from the crowd. Let's be cautious too.

[EmmaOlivia]

It's a good indication for the economy. This only means there is additional demand of necessities which can increase the number of the goods in the market.