PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[McBane]

I'm not quite sure the point being made about City Hall. But I will say that designating buildings for historic preservation based entirely on appearances is a slippery slope. The United Way was preserved because it was a good example of a certain architectural style. Didn't that godawful public health building at Broad and Lombard receive historical designation for the exact same reason? I don't recall here anyone supporting that decision.

Look, I'm not saying the United Way building is hideous or unworthy or recognition. I just don't think it rises to the threshold of preservation forever.

On another note, I mentioned a couple weeks ago some projects going on in Rox/Manyunk. Here are two pics I snapped the other day:

This is a near-complete apartment building on Terrace Street:


And here is a project in the heart of Roxborough's commercial district along Ridge Ave. According to the L&I notice, it's going to be ground floor retail with 27 units on floors 2-4.


This is what the site used to look like: https://goo.gl/maps/SzQnVcztYFR2

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

No I'm being serious I just don't really like City Hall, apart from the concept of William Penn atop a tower. It's too busy for me. I prefer clean lines and simpler plans.

I know people could argue that Art Decco and Classical would also be anachronistic but those styles are timeless to me, whereas the late empire style or whatever City Hall is appears dated.

It's SUPPOSED to feel dated. So does Versailles and the Sistine Chapel. So does Independence Hall. Some things are a testament to the time and culture in which they arose, and that's as it should be. That is the very reason behind preservation and maintaining architecturally significant buildings even if they are not what most would call beautiful today. Personally, I like the aesthetic of City Hall for what it is even though it's of another era and not my personal style.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

It's SUPPOSED to feel dated. So does Versailles and the Sistine Chapel. So does Independence Hall. Some things are a testament to the time and culture in which they arose, and that's as it should be. That is the very reason behind preservation and maintaining architecturally significant buildings even if they are not what most would call beautiful today. Personally, I like the aesthetic of City Hall for what it is even though it's of another era and not my personal style.

Yes but many older buildings actually don't seem dated in the way that City Hall does. But I realize these are aesthetic opinions and it's a bit silly to argue about them.

Anyway, I just don't like the building. I would redesign it if it were up to me. But of course it isn't.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

Yes but many older buildings actually don't seem dated in the way that City Hall does. But I realize these are aesthetic opinions and it's a bit silly to argue about them.

Anyway, I just don't like the building. I would redesign it if it were up to me. But of course it isn't.

Ok cool, thanks!

[Jawnadelphia]

^Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can tell you City Hall Philadelphia is one of the greatest buildings in North America, and a treasure for this city.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can tell you City Hall Philadelphia is one of the greatest buildings in North America, and a treasure for this city.

Yeah I know I'm in the minority in terms of how I feel about it. It definitely is a building that is revered by many people. I had friends visit from Seattle last year and they were blown away by it.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can tell you City Hall Philadelphia is one of the greatest buildings in North America, and a treasure for this city.

Yea. I definitely respect the unpopular opinion - lord knows we've all expressed them here. But a while back there was a City Halls thread in the City Discussions section and pretty much everyone agreed that ours is one of the nation's best. And on the other end of the spectrum, most agreed that Boston's is the worst.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by McBane

Yea. I definitely respect the unpopular opinion - lord knows we've all expressed them here. But a while back there was a City Halls thread in the City Discussions section and pretty much everyone agreed that ours is one of the nation's best. And on the other end of the spectrum, most agreed that Boston's is the worst.

Boston City Hall is horrendous.

[Urbanthusiat]

Ori Feibush plans homes and shops at Chocolate Factory site in South Philly

Developer Ori Feibush has acquired the site of the former Frankford Chocolate Factory on the north side of Washington Avenue between 21st and 22nd Streets in South Philadelphia, with plans to raze most of the historic structure to make way for apartments, townhouses and stores.

Feibush paid $15.5 million for the nearly 170,000-square-foot building on 2.3 acres Monday, he said in an interview.

Feibush said his proposal would be a big step toward transforming Washington Avenue, west of Broad Street, from a strip of warehouses and blighted industrial buildings into a dense commercial and residential corridor binding the revitalized Point Breeze and Graduate Hospital neighborhoods north and south of the property.

“I see it as the single most important development that can occur for Point Breeze and Graduate Hospital,” he said. “It is the true connective tissue between both neighborhoods.”

Feibush’s partners on the project are Robert Roskamp, with whom he is also collaborating on projects at the former site of the Royal Theater on South Street and at the Walter Smith School building at 19th and Wharton Streets, and Howard Silverman, developer of a 46-unit townhouse project near 20th and Wharton Streets.

Their proposal for the former factory calls for 176 apartments above 22,000 square feet of retail space along Washington Avenue in a five-story structure that incorporates a section of the existing property at the corner with 22nd Street, from which its smokestack rises.

To the north of the apartment building, Feibush plans a pedestrian way that continues League Street through an area now occupied by the bulk of the existing building. Twenty condo duplexes — totaling 40 units — are proposed along that throughway.

The northern edge of the development site, along Kimball Street, meanwhile, would accommodate 22 townhouses.

A 176-space underground parking garage beneath the apartment building would be entered at 22nd Street and exited at 23rd Street, while each for-sale unit would have an onsite spot of its own.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...html?mobi=true

[diavolo]

Courtesy of Reddit (had to resize it: https://i.redd.it/x607i914nos01.jpg)



The new fountains in LOVE Park have been turned on yesterday and today, they are shooting quite a bit of water outside of the area which flows down the sidewalk.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Ori Feibush plans homes and shops at Chocolate Factory site in South Philly



http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...html?mobi=true

Start up the historic preservation debate again! We made it a few posts at least...

[TempleGuy1000]

Temple's new library is pretty far along now. Photos could have been better, but it is what it is.







Rendering with the building to the right tore down and replaced by a new central green



The overbuild along Liacouras Walk is pretty far along now



Rendering of the finished building

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Start up the historic preservation debate again! We made it a few posts at least...

Wasn't the most recent plan to save the bulk of the building with targeted demolitions of a few key areas (particularly the later extension abutting Kimball)?

Also interesting to note that the person who made the City register application, in this context, is an OCF employee.

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

That's a pretty looking reskin of Speakmann that they're planning on. It also really draws the eye to how horrendously ugly Wachmann is IMO.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

Am I alone in not being especially fond of City Hall? I like the idea of a tower with William Penn atop it, but I really don't care for the style of the building. It just seems anachronistic. I wish it could be redone in an Art Deco or classical motif but I know there is a zero percent chance of that happening and the vast majority of people would oppose it.

To each their own but "anachronistic" would be the wrong term here -- that word means "showing up in a context before it was invented". For example, City Hall showing up in a period piece about the American Revolution would be anachronistic -- the Second Empire architectural style dates to the mid-early 19th century.

By the way, the Second Empire style is the bulk of Paris' urban vernacular, as it hit its peak right about when Haussman rammed his boulevards through most of the city. So you could say City Hall has a particularly Parisian feel about it. French-y!

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by diavolo

The new fountains in LOVE Park have been turned on yesterday and today, they are shooting quite a bit of water outside of the area which flows down the sidewalk.

Jesus Christ. I've been reserving judgement on Love Park until the trees and grass grow in but there is absolutely no excuse for that. The engineers need to be made to fix that out of pocket.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Start up the historic preservation debate again! We made it a few posts at least...

Hiya! Hiya!

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Wasn't the most recent plan to save the bulk of the building with targeted demolitions of a few key areas (particularly the later extension abutting Kimball)?

Also interesting to note that the person who made the City register application, in this context, is an OCF employee.

Apparently the nominator, Dennis Carlisle, became an OCF employee only recently, after he had submitted the local historic nomination. They then unsuccessfully attempted to withdraw the nomination, which the designation committee unanimously recommended for designation today (coincidentally). It remains for the Commission itself to act on the designation. The complex is already on the National Register, which provides historic preservation tax credits of 20% for rehabs, but doesn't preclude total demolition.

The previous developer, who presented preliminary plans to the community in November, proposed to rehab all of the older structures and demolish newer, mostly cinderblock, portions from the 60s (see diagram in nomination linked below for year of construction of each portion).

OCF intends to retain only a very small section, which includes a smokestack encrusted with cell phone antennae. Can't kill that cash cow.

http://www.phila.gov/historical/Docu...Nomination.pdf

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Jesus Christ. I've been reserving judgement on Love Park until the trees and grass grow in but there is absolutely no excuse for that. The engineers need to be made to fix that out of pocket.

I wouldn't read so much into it. I bet it's more like adjusting the tap for the water pressure you want, so if it's spraying so much water it's flooding the whole lower park then they have to close the tap a little so there isn't as much water flowing through the nozzle.

If the problem persists when the fountain's at all turned on, then that's a total drainage fail and looking from above that might be on the landscape architect.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

To each their own but "anachronistic" would be the wrong term here -- that word means "showing up in a context before it was invented". For example, City Hall showing up in a period piece about the American Revolution would be anachronistic -- the Second Empire architectural style dates to the mid-early 19th century.

By the way, the Second Empire style is the bulk of Paris' urban vernacular, as it hit its peak right about when Haussman rammed his boulevards through most of the city. So you could say City Hall has a particularly Parisian feel about it. French-y!

Good spot, but the term is actually used in different ways in the US and UK. In the US it often means something that appears outdated in a modern context.

[nimshady]

Originally Posted by diavolo

Courtesy of Reddit (had to resize it: https://i.redd.it/x607i914nos01.jpg)



The new fountains in LOVE Park have been turned on yesterday and today, they are shooting quite a bit of water outside of the area which flows down the sidewalk.

That's a disgrace honestly. We have had to wait so long and we get a spray fountain that floods the street and some tiny trees. We can do better than that. Also where is the seating?

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

Good spot, but the term is actually used in different ways in the US and UK. In the US it often means something that appears outdated in a modern context.

See, the problem here is that if you want to argue that, then you have to argue that ...

Montréal's city hall



Baltimore's city hall



St. Louis' Old Post Office



the Palais Garnier



the Monte Carlo



and the Brussels Stock Exchange



among many other buildings of the type are all also anachronistic, which is something of a hard pill to swallow since the vast majority of buildings of this type are widely considered beloved civic icons.