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  #49301  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 4:43 PM
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The gist:



Very boomer article.
Lol that's like saying Philly's Center City is struggling cause of University City's growth, or Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City shouldn't expand if it means Midtown suffers. There are too many things to nitpick in this article that it's healthier to pretend I never read it
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  #49302  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 5:43 PM
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I'm sure the State Street interests fretted when Mag Mile exploded after WW2. But they were right to do so! The next few decades were indeed a dark time for State, with porno theaters and wig shops replacing the movie palaces and fine shopping/dining that used to be there, and crime spiking. Not a place you wanted to hang out at night... It didn't start to rebound as a theatre district and a mid-market shopping area until the 90s.

The speed of change today is concerning too. The rise of Mag Mile took 50 years. Fulton Market has taken only 10. What is the city's holistic strategy for downtown? It needs to have one, that addresses growth in Fulton Market AND the future of older areas like the Loop and Mag Mile without letting runaway speculation create a vacuum in those areas. The city's last plan, the Central Area Plan, was created in 2003 and last updated in 2009. Nowhere did it even anticipate the growth of Fulton Market as a new hub for office, retail, or residential.

Our situation is not really comparable to other cities either. We finally posted a slight growth in 2020 census, but if you take off the booster glasses, the best you can say is that our population is stagnant. To some extent the physical growth can be supported by a dramatic rise in incomes, but other aspects of urban growth really do require an increase in warm bodies. So what does that mean for downtown? Are we building a downtown that's too big for our population to support, and if so, will all the resulting vacancies, or less-intense land uses, erode the hustle/bustle and vitality?
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Last edited by ardecila; Sep 23, 2021 at 5:53 PM.
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  #49303  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 5:47 PM
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From WLCO:

Bridgford Foods Demolition Notice

Community Update from CRG & Bridgford Foods: Activity at 170 N Green, Bridgford Foods Property

CRG, the development and investment arm of Clayco, in coordination with Bridgford Foods, the owner of the Bridgford Foods plant at 170 North Green Street in Chicago’s Fulton Market District, is proceeding with demolition of the plant. Clayco will begin demolition at the end of September and anticipates completion by March 2022. CRG continues to evaluate plans for the redevelopment of the site and is excited to bring a dynamic new project to Fulton Market that will benefit the vibrant neighborhood for decades to come. CRG will communicate regularly with Alderman Burnett and his team, as well as local community groups, to keep area residents and businesses informed of site activities. Once it is in a position to share proposed plans, CRG will engage city and community stakeholders.
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  #49304  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I'm sure the State Street interests fretted when Mag Mile exploded after WW2. But they were right to do so! The next few decades were indeed a dark time for State, with porno theaters and wig shops replacing the movie palaces and fine shopping/dining that used to be there, and crime spiking. Not a place you wanted to hang out at night... It didn't start to rebound as a theatre district and a mid-market shopping area until the 90s.

The speed of change today is concerning too. The rise of Mag Mile took 50 years. Fulton Market has taken only 10. What is the city's holistic strategy for downtown? It needs to have one, that addresses growth in Fulton Market AND the future of older areas like the Loop and Mag Mile without letting runaway speculation create a vacuum in those areas. The city's last plan, the Central Area Plan, was created in 2003 and last updated in 2009. Nowhere did it even anticipate the growth of Fulton Market as a new hub for office, retail, or residential.

Our situation is not really comparable to other cities either. We finally posted a slight growth in 2020 census, but if you take off the booster glasses, the best you can say is that our population is stagnant. To some extent the physical growth can be supported by a dramatic rise in incomes, but other aspects of urban growth really do require an increase in warm bodies. So what does that mean for downtown? Are we building a downtown that's too big for our population to support, and if so, will all the resulting vacancies, or less-intense land uses, erode the hustle/bustle and vitality?
I don't see the comparison.

State St decline was due to suburbanization and the city's overall decline.
Mag Mile was a touted shopping district that would cater to surburbanites who wanted a clean, safe place to shop and where they could park their cars. Prior to the 2000s, River North and Streeterville were full of parking lots where all those beige towers are now.

Today, the city isn't in overall decline. The downtown area is growing fast, in a way that never happened in the latter 20th century. So there is opportunity to grow or sustain 2 districts.

Also, Mag Mile and West Loop aren't necessarily competing in the same space. Mag Mile is flagship retail. West Loop/Fulton is boutique and bar/restaurant oriented.

I don't see Fulton or Randolph suddenly becoming a new Mag Mile. It's not even trying to be. It's more mixed up and eclectic, whereas Mag Mile is truly a devoted shopping boulevard, through and through, the way State St was. That's why Mag Mile usurped State St.

But again, I don't envision the same thing happening here...
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  #49305  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 9:06 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I don't see the comparison.

State St decline was due to suburbanization and the city's overall decline.
Mag Mile was a touted shopping district that would cater to surburbanites who wanted a clean, safe place to shop and where they could park their cars. Prior to the 2000s, River North and Streeterville were full of parking lots where all those beige towers are now.

Today, the city isn't in overall decline. The downtown area is growing fast, in a way that never happened in the latter 20th century. So there is opportunity to grow or sustain 2 districts.

Also, Mag Mile and West Loop aren't necessarily competing in the same space. Mag Mile is flagship retail. West Loop/Fulton is boutique and bar/restaurant oriented.

I don't see Fulton or Randolph suddenly becoming a new Mag Mile. It's not even trying to be. It's more mixed up and eclectic, whereas Mag Mile is truly a devoted shopping boulevard, through and through, the way State St was. That's why Mag Mile usurped State St.

But again, I don't envision the same thing happening here...
Seriously though, what exactly is the Mag Mile today? I know it was flagship retail at some point in the last few years, but now?
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  #49306  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 9:10 PM
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Seriously though, what exactly is the Mag Mile today? I know it was flagship retail at some point in the last few years, but now?
Isn't a lot of flagship retail "off Michigan Avenue" today? Dior, Versace, YSL, Armani, etc...They're all a block or 2 in, not on Michigan Ave.
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  #49307  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Isn't a lot of flagship retail "off Michigan Avenue" today? Dior, Versace, YSL, Armani, etc...They're all a block or 2 in, not on Michigan Ave.
Yeah the move of the higher end boutique stuff westward towards Rush plus the demise of department stores is dealing the mile a double blow. There is probably too much retail space to lease anymore and some of it should flip to other uses where possible. Though that may not be possible if the neighbors get veto power over every change as though time can be turned back through their will alone.

The retail over in Fulton is still small and really thin. I don't know how it can be cast as the cause of or really just a potential challenge to the city's other shopping districts. Like you can buy a mattress and go to Aesop, not a lot else unless a drug store sells it.
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  #49308  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 12:54 AM
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Yeah the move of the higher end boutique stuff westward towards Rush plus the demise of department stores is dealing the mile a double blow. There is probably too much retail space to lease anymore and some of it should flip to other uses where possible. Though that may not be possible if the neighbors get veto power over every change as though time can be turned back through their will alone.

The retail over in Fulton is still small and really thin. I don't know how it can be cast as the cause of or really just a potential challenge to the city's other shopping districts. Like you can buy a mattress and go to Aesop, not a lot else unless a drug store sells it.
It seems like that sort of high-end designer retail would naturally stay in the gold coast / viagra triangle area. That's where the customers are. Aesop is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see in Fulton, along with the stuff like DWR and Hay. Rush is wealthy and 50+, Fulton is well-off (e.g. MBA crowd) and 30+ (furniture, kids, expensive soap). They're not competing, and they both should exist.

If anything, Fulton is taking away from Wicker Park / Bucktown, but really the people living there have aged anyway, while Logan square / Avondale is younger and/or lower income.

The other place that has picked up is Armitage in Lincoln Park. It had been really dead for a while, but in the last two years everything finally filled up and it's vibrant again.
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  #49309  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 12:10 PM
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The other place that has picked up is Armitage in Lincoln Park. It had been really dead for a while, but in the last two years everything finally filled up and it's vibrant again.
Yes, pleasantly surprised how this strip has rebounded.
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  #49310  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 1:27 PM
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^ It probably is getting a boost because of the “Lincoln Yards” effect
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  #49311  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 1:32 PM
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I think that retail development downtown doesn’t have to be a zero sum game.

If the population downtown remained the same for 20 years, then yes it would be.

But it has grown significantly, so there is definitely room to grow more retail space without cannibalizing it elsewhere.

However, considering how dependent the Mag Mile has been on suburbanites and out of towners, we also have to talk about the recent upgrades to Navy Pier and the Riverwalk and how those “steal” tourist dollars from the Mag Mile.

Ultimately, the solution for the Mag Mile is to continue to adapt to what newer tourists want. It needs to remain a tourist destination, I don’t see it ever becoming a community shopping strip. Perhaps more experiential retail is the right direction?
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  #49312  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 3:12 PM
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^ more residential density fixes all these issues
Agreed. Hopefully we see more residential projects go up along Mag Mile in the years to come. The Tribune Tower conversion will definitely help when it's finally done.
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  #49313  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 3:40 PM
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^ I would be nice if the Mag Mile had large gathering spot ala Rockefeller center/times square plaza for live entertainment perhaps incorporated into a park... Im not saying it has be like NYC but something similar in its use but with a Chicago touch and flare...There is only so many restaurant, shopping stores, and hotels you can have.
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  #49314  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 4:14 PM
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Via YIMBY Chicago
Hopefully this helps with the restoration of The Forum across the street as well.
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  #49315  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 4:32 PM
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Hopefully this helps with the restoration of The Forum across the street as well.
They have some big plans for it - they'd submitted a zoning app a few weeks ago to change a lot.
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  #49316  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 5:59 PM
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Perhaps more experiential retail is the right direction?
There are two seismic shifts that are happening in retail. The first is that online shopping has become very pervasive due to its convenience. People have limited time, and they prefer to shop for many things in the comfort of their own home. While there will always be people going to big flagship stores to shop the newest trends, it wont be the same as it was 20 years ago.

Second, the newer generations prefer to spend more money on experiences rather than things (source: I'm an "older" and unhip millennial, lol). I sort of agree with this stereotype, and its something i witness within my friend circles as well as other people in my age group. I'd rather have a weekend getaway than a newer and bigger TV.

Given those two trends, I think experiential retail is definitely something city should push for Boul Mich. The Starbucks Roastery is a pretty good example of what people are looking for nowadays, especially when it comes to visiting large urban cities.
Michigan Ave will always be near the top of the list for almost every tourist visiting the city. The question is, will they simply walk along the street for an hour then cab it to the next spot, or will they spend an entire day there and empty out their wallets of that sweet, sweet tourist cash?
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  #49317  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chicubs111 View Post
^ I would be nice if the Mag Mile had large gathering spot ala Rockefeller center/times square plaza for live entertainment perhaps incorporated into a park... Im not saying it has be like NYC but something similar in its use but with a Chicago touch and flare...There is only so many restaurant, shopping stores, and hotels you can have.
The recent redevelopment of Pioneer Court in front of the Tribune building + the rest of the plaza to the Apple Store is pretty close I'd say to what you describe. Hoping to see more gathering/events centered around this area like you say.

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  #49318  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:02 PM
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Jane Byrne Park along the Water Tower is also a very nice gathering spot, albeit rather small.
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  #49319  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:07 PM
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This beauty at 2202 W Grand Ave (Grand & Leavitt) is being torn down and being replaced by a new 4 story, 21 unit building with ground floor retail and 27 indoor parking spaces

https://www.google.com/maps/place/22...!4d-87.6820898

$50 says the new building, though, will look like the 5 story building across the street.
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  #49320  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:08 PM
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This is actually the current street view of that area and so was being used for an art fair when the camera drove by. I know they had that big Marilyn Monroe statue there for a while too. But it does feel like this space is being underutilized - but maybe I'm just not paying enough attention.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8901...7i16384!8i8192

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