Chicago Area Suburban Sidewalks

[ChiUrban]

This was recently mentioned in another thread and I thought this might be an interesting discussion.

Overwhelmingly, the Chicago suburbs continued to build sidewalks (and often times on both sides of the street!) all through the 50s/60s/70s. It seemingly has one of the most intact suburban sidewalk networks of major metro areas in the US.

And it is not just the older suburbs, even “newer” auto-oriented suburbs like Schaumburg, Hoffman Estates, Bolingbrook, etc. have them in most neighborhoods built in the 50s/60s/70s.

It seems quite impressive to me and I was curious if anyone knew how or why the Chicago area was able to buck the no sidewalk trend that hit so many suburban areas and sunbelt cities?


A few examples:


Hoffman Estates

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0372...7i16384!8i8192


Bolingbrook

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6972...7i16384!8i8192


Schaumburg

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0183...7i16384!8i8192


Aurora (DuPage County portion built in the 1970s)

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7282...7i16384!8i8192


**Just as a side note, in a metro area of almost 10 million I am positive you will find areas that do not have sidewalks (some of which are unincorporated areas or “large-lot” suburbs like Barrington and Oak Brook), but broadly speaking it seems sidewalks are more plentiful than would be expected for suburban areas, especially those built in that time period.

[bilbao58]

Lack of sidewalks is criminal, in my mind. And it's not just a regional thing, either. The neighborhood in a suburb of Toronto I lived in in the early 70s had no sidewalks. The neighborhood in a suburb of Houston I lived in after that had no sidewalks. I see it all the time now and don't understand it at all.

[Steely Dan]

from my experience in chicagoland, the presence of sidewalks seems most closely correlated with lot size.

normal middle class suburban areas in chicago almost always have fairly complete street infrastructure: sidewalks on both sides, curbs, sewers, streetlights, etc.

but when you get into the larger lot "country" subdivisions, they tend to eschew sidewalks, curbs, sewers, and streetlights, i guess so that they can pretend that they're living out in the country or something.

i imagine this general correlation exists for most eastern cities (large lot "country" burbs aren't nearly as much a of thing out west), though chicagoland might have a higher than average percentage of its suburbia fully side-walked.



these two examples are less than a half mile from each other, and built in the same general era:

normal middle class surburbia: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1920...7i16384!8i8192

large lot "country" suburbia: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1932...7i13312!8i6656



i have no numbers to back this up, but it seems like there's less large lot "country" suburbia being built today compared to 60s/70s/80s.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

large lot "country" suburbia: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1932...7i13312!8i6656

That "country" suburbia photo looks almost exactly like the last place my parents lived, 35 miles west of Houston. One thing about the street differences between the two styles: Normal suburban (and city) streets are lower than the surrounding lots and work as drainage for rainwater. Large lot "country" streets are higher than the surrounding lots and direct the water off the streets.

After a typical Southeast Texas torrential storm, those neighborhoods look like causeways snaking through a large, shallow lake.

[dave8721]

In Miami it seems more a function of wealth than lot size, though I guess the rare areas in South Florida that do have large lots, also do not have sidewalks. Old wealthy suburban neighborhoods will have no sidewalks even with small lot sizes (usually they are so densely vegetated there would be no room anyway)

try running a sidewalk through here: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7405...7i16384!8i8192

Generally speaking uber wealthy burb non-sidewalks: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6699...7i16384!8i8192

More working class/middle class burb sidewalks: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6666...7i13312!8i6656

In this image you see middle class area on the right with sidewalks, mansions on the left (with large lots) with no sidewalks:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7119.../data=!3m1!1e3

Or this one: North side of the canal, wealthy no-sidewalks even though the lots arent very large. South side: working class burb, with sidewalks:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6382.../data=!3m1!1e3

[SIGSEGV]

Not sure this is a Chicago thing... in Reno even new shitburbia seems to have sidewalks: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4121...7i16384!8i8192 (though maybe it's a city ordinance... some unincorporated areas seem not to have sidewalks: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3936...7i13312!8i6656 )

[Camelback]

I would say that the Phoenix area does extremely well with sidewalks, which is somewhat surprising given that it is a city dominated by the automobile.

This is a 47 mile drive from downtown Phoenix, that's about as deep in suburbia as you can get and look at all the sidewalks out there!
https://goo.gl/maps/QawQSyCooAa1aGnD8

[JManc]

Houston requires them but there are quite a few areas in town still without them; my neighborhood is in the city limits yet no sidewalks because it was built before the city annexed it in the 90's but newer homes built since then all have them.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by ChiUrban

It seems quite impressive to me and I was curious if anyone knew how or why the Chicago area was able to buck the no sidewalk trend that hit so many suburban areas and sunbelt cities?

Jurisdictions required sidewalks (usually with a "standard detail" for new streets) and homebuyers expected them after moving from the city or from older "streetcar" suburbs.

You can also relate it to average household income - in general, cities with higher incomes (historically) are able to support more amenities in their large housing developments.

You might think all tract housing is the same across the country but there are actually significant regional differences. In parts of suburban Dallas it's even typical for new subdivisions to have alleys, so the garage door isn't visible from the street. It all comes down to what is legally allowed and what buyers demand.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You might think all tract housing is the same across the country but there are actually significant regional differences. In parts of suburban Dallas it's even typical for new subdivisions to have alleys, so the garage door isn't visible from the street.

street-viewing around dallas, it's remarkable how much of the metro area has alleys, from the older gridded neighborhoods in the city all the way out to many of the newer "curvy street" subdivisions in the exurbs.


suburban dallas with alleys: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1637...7i16384!8i8192

suburban dallas without alleys: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1840...7i16384!8i8192


what a nice difference that one simple change can make to the attractiveness of a suburban street.

how did dallas get it so right and houston so wrong?

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Camelback

I would say that the Phoenix area does extremely well with sidewalks, which is somewhat surprising given that it is a city dominated by the automobile.

This is a 47 mile drive from downtown Phoenix, that's about as deep in suburbia as you can get and look at all the sidewalks out there!
https://goo.gl/maps/QawQSyCooAa1aGnD8

Yeah, I'd say sidewalks are pretty much standard issue throughout the entire Phoenix metro area. Like others have said, the only places you really see without them are large-lot, wealthy areas in North Phoenix and Paradise Valley, such as:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5391...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5117...7i16384!8i8192

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Yeah, I'd say sidewalks are pretty much standard issue throughout the entire Phoenix metro area. Like others have said, the only places you really see without them are large-lot, wealthy areas in North Phoenix and Paradise Valley, such as:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5391...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5117...7i16384!8i8192

Yep and those streets without sidewalks in central Phoenix were created pre-war maybe 1950, back when those streets were rural and fringy.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

what a nice difference that one simple change can make to the attractiveness of a suburban street.

how did dallas get it so right and houston so wrong?

Cultural snootiness. Upwardly-mobile Dallasites in the suburbs wanted to mimic the aesthetics of traditional old money neighborhoods of North Dallas.

They didn't want driveways/garages, or the stuff people do in them - kids playing, car washing and repair, DIY projects, etc - to be visible from the street. How unbecoming!

Houston simply had different traditions born from a different climate - urban Houston is a lot like urban New Orleans, the street sides are for drainage and traditionally people walked in the middle of the street where it was highest. They didn't build sidewalks or alleys in the city except in commercial areas, so why would they build them out in the suburbs?

[Centropolis]

yeah suburban dallas is a trip. i alwats wondered why/how in the King of the Hill they hung out in the alley in suburbia.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Cultural snootiness. Upwardly-mobile Dallasites in the suburbs wanted to mimic the aesthetics of traditional old money neighborhoods of North Dallas.

They didn't want driveways/garages, or the stuff people do in them - kids playing, car washing and repair, DIY projects, etc - to be visible from the street. How unbecoming!

Houston simply had different traditions born from a different climate - urban Houston is a lot like urban New Orleans, the street sides are for drainage and traditionally people walked in the middle of the street where it was highest. They didn't build sidewalks or alleys in the city except in commercial areas, so why would they build them out in the suburbs?

Well said.

To be clear for other people, Houston does have a lot of sidewalks. I grew up in a neighborhood in SW Houston that was built in the early 80s and I can walk from my parents, to outside the neighborhood, down W Bellfort about 8 miles to the Medical Center Area.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Cultural snootiness. Upwardly-mobile Dallasites in the suburbs wanted to mimic the aesthetics of traditional old money neighborhoods of North Dallas.

They didn't want driveways/garages, or the stuff people do in them - kids playing, car washing and repair, DIY projects, etc - to be visible from the street. How unbecoming!

Houston simply had different traditions born from a different climate - urban Houston is a lot like urban New Orleans, the street sides are for drainage and traditionally people walked in the middle of the street where it was highest. They didn't build sidewalks or alleys in the city except in commercial areas, so why would they build them out in the suburbs?

cultural snootiness, interesting. in the st. louis area it was probably the reverse. my mother in laws house built in 1914 on a private place (street) in the suburbs specifically doesn't have alleys i guess to prove a point that the lot is big enough to support private drives between the houses to the rear carriage houses and ostensibly for more privacy/security.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Cultural snootiness. Upwardly-mobile Dallasites in the suburbs wanted to mimic the aesthetics of traditional old money neighborhoods of North Dallas.

They didn't want driveways/garages, or the stuff people do in them - kids playing, car washing and repair, DIY projects, etc - to be visible from the street. How unbecoming!

That's interesting.

I'm curious how that same cultural aversion to street-facing garages didn't carry over into post-war suburbia in chicagoland.

As we both know, Chicago, and much of its inner ring pre-war suburbia, is one of the most thoroughly "alleyed" places on the planet (though some pre-war Chicago suburbia had that intermediate stage where they didn't plat alleys through the blocks, but still placed detached garages in the rear yard and then snaked stupidly long driveways from the street through the side yard).

Then in the post-war era, alleys we're almost completely abandoned when new subdivisions were platted and street-facing attached garages became the near-ubiquitous norm (though in ritzier subdivisons with bigger lots, the attached garage is often sited to open to the side, so as not to directly face the street).

I guess suburban chicagoans just weren't as snooty as those dallasites moving out of the city. It's a damn shame because alleys really do improve the look and feel of a residential street, IMO.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

cultural snootiness, interesting. in the st. louis area it was probably the reverse. my mother in laws house built in 1914 on a private place (street) in the suburbs specifically doesn't have alleys i guess to prove a point that the lot is big enough to support private drives between the houses to the rear carriage houses and ostensibly for more privacy/security.

Right, I don't get how a back alley is "cultural snootiness."

If I had a McMansion in the Dallas suburbs I'd want a driveway, so people could come over without clogging the roadway, and workers could bring stuff into the house without going through the front door. I'd also prefer the opportunity of knowing my neighbors, which in exurbia is usually via driveways.

Where's the mud room in these homes? Do they need double mud rooms? In newer, higher end suburbia, the mud room is usually on the side entrance, and simultaneously connected to the garage. But here, everyone is tromping through the front door.

But, yeah, if the affluent corridor in North Dallas traditionally had alleys, it's probably upper middle class aspirational design.

[TexasPlaya]

I just assumed you midwestern protestants just liked more cleanliness and order compared to us unruly southern catholics.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I just assumed you midwestern protestants just liked more cleanliness and order compared to us unruly southern catholics.

im guessing this phone call is for me because the rest of the midwest gang seems to be catholic. i’m culturally methodist which seems to be big in north texas i guess, dunno, so i don’t know how it all segues in.

i will say that i am pro-discussion of religion and how it pertains to the built environment. i remember being in hudson, ohio (connecticut reserve) and having a new england out of body ass experience.