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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:01 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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So you want none of the things I mentioned. No Super Bowl or anything I suggested for you than. It's the 21st century man. This we will suffer is the cold mentality has to stop, we are in modern times now.
You can watch off of those other thinks I mentioned on TV in a Domed Stadium in some other City.
.
It's not that we don't want these things.... It's that we aren't willing to shell out billions of taxpayer dollars for it. It's not worth the cost.

Think about what could be done for the city with a billion dollars going into infrastructure, trails, parks, etc instead of building a football stadium that really only gets used a very small fraction of the time.

I lived close to the Broncos stadium in Denver, and the damn thing was empty 99% of the time. They have a plan for an entertainment district, but driving by it was depressing because it's a huge chunk of land in the city that just sits empty.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:07 PM
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Might as well add a fancy driving range while they're at it.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:19 PM
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It's not that we don't want these things.... It's that we aren't willing to shell out billions of taxpayer dollars for it. It's not worth the cost.

Think about what could be done for the city with a billion dollars going into infrastructure, trails, parks, etc instead of building a football stadium that really only gets used a very small fraction of the time.

I lived close to the Broncos stadium in Denver, and the damn thing was empty 99% of the time. They have a plan for an entertainment district, but driving by it was depressing because it's a huge chunk of land in the city that just sits empty.
Am I missing where the public is on the hook for this? Do you live in Arlington Heights? I don't see where that state is paying for this or the County. http://www.chicagotribune.com/politi...nga-story.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/b...mka-story.html


State officials are not contemplating paying for a new stadium, Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a fellow Democrat, has said. He left it up to the municipalities involved to decide what investment they may want to make. Some state lawmakers, meanwhile, have been downright hostile to the idea of providing corporate welfare for the deal. One proposed resolution would prevent the state from using taxpayer money to build new professional sports stadiums.



...

If they are I would like to see it.


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Championships

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Price Paid

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Operating Income


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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:26 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Sorry, but the vibes of Gillette Stadium and Foxborough, MA are strong with this one.

Sofi Stadium is at least contiguous with LA proper and somewhat close to a major transportation center.

Like Foxborough, Arlington Heights is a suburb 30 miles distant with a single train station with infrequent service.

What sort of person under 40 in Chicago wants to spend time in a Potemkin Football Village and average retail mall the other 350 days of the year?

(That is still going to be an epic parking crater like Foxborough because there is no other way except by car for the vast majority of people to get there.)

And let’s not kid ourselves about events. They might get the one customary “Super Bowl per New Stadium”, but there will be epic bitching and moaning from the celebrities about spending February in -10 degrees in a Chicago suburb.







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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:33 PM
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The center of Gravity of a fan going to the game is likely over 40 and most live closer to AH then DT.

Don't know why everyone is throwing a hissy fit. This this is settled. The Bears are not staying in SF or an new Stadium next to it. The matter is over. Now go to bed.

BTW Metra has a stop right at Arlington Park. And Celebs all national influencers lol and Media will be staying down town.

Better than " February -10 degrees in Chicago outside for 5 hours freezing your ass off "

The Super bowl is Weeks long. Do you really think that they will spend their whole time in a Motel 6 off Rt 12. Come on man, lol. Chicago will still be the center of this, and all games will still have a view of the Lake and Skyline not a Dome in the Burbs.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:36 PM
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Sofi Stadium is at least contiguous with LA proper and somewhat close to a major transportation center.
what major transit center is SoFi near?



anyway, yes, SoFi is way more "in town" than an AH stadium would be.

AH is MUCH more in the foxborough realm.


as the crow flies:

SoFi stadium - downtown LA: ~8 miles

foxborourgh - downtown boston: ~21 miles

AH stadium - downtown chicago: ~24 miles

levi's stadium - downtown SF: ~36 miles


a new bears stadium in AH would be the 2nd "furthest out" stadium in the NFL.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Sep 2, 2022 at 4:50 PM.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:39 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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The center of Gravity of a fan going to the game is likely over 40 and most live closer to AH then DT.

Don't know why everyone is throwing a hissy fit. This this is settled. The Bears are not staying in SF or an new Stadium next to it. The matter is over. Now go to bed.

BTW Metra has a stop right at Arlington Park. And Celebs all national influencers lol and Media will be staying down town.
I honestly don't think most of us are upset about it. As has been noted, the Bears won't be the first NFL team to locate away from a downtown area, and won't be the last.

Also, as has been noted, if we don't have good transit integration with SF now, I have (as opposed to two hours ago) dim hopes of anything good coming to the Metra line. If I'm wrong, I will be pleasantly surprised.

The only thing I really care about is making sure no tax breaks or state money goes to this thing. Sounds like Pritzker is not onboard with it, so I think we are good.

Aside from that, let the shit hit the fan as AH residents start to realize what's coming their way. It's not a huge loss for Chicago as SF brings in a ton of non-NFL games, and there's just so much more to a city than how big their NFL stadium is.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:41 PM
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Also, how many under 40 will go to the games period? The city is the principal location for young professionals who don’t mind spending money on sports and entertainment if it’s conveniently close. I know my personal experience is meaningless of the big picture, but myself and friends have only enjoyed NFL attendance through last minute decisions and close proximity to the stadium. Maybe that’s checking tickets the morning before a game or a benefit through a company’s season tickets.

Baseball had the right idea where team owners are convinced that active urban locations are crucial to attracting a casually interested crowd and turning them into fans who will come back more frequently.

Feels as though the Bears are certain they know who their crowd will be. Longtime loyal fans, suburban executives and wealthy families. I just don’t know if that’s sustainable in the long run, but we know they’ve had all a whole team doing extensive market studies.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:47 PM
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Don't know why everyone is throwing a hissy fit.
who is "throwing a hissy fit" in this thread?

we're all just discussing the logisitics and realities of a possible NFL stadium out in AH.

and with the lone exception of you, the rest of us are doing so respectfully.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:48 PM
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Am I missing where the public is on the hook for this? Do you live in Arlington Heights? I don't see where that state is paying for this or the County. http://www.chicagotribune.com/politi...nga-story.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/b...mka-story.html

State officials are not contemplating paying for a new stadium, Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a fellow Democrat, has said. He left it up to the municipalities involved to decide what investment they may want to make. Some state lawmakers, meanwhile, have been downright hostile to the idea of providing corporate welfare for the deal. One proposed resolution would prevent the state from using taxpayer money to build new professional sports stadiums.
Many politicians have made such promises before only to cave. My hope is that whoever is Illinois governor sticks to that promise. There has already been a bit of open-wiggle room left open by AH mayor to provide some funding. As an AH resident, I will protest loudly and often against ANY measure of funding for the Bears. It is simply not warranted, Arlington Heights (and Cook/Illinois) hold all the cards here.

The land is (or will be soon) bought and paid for. The Bears will not get a better opportunity to own their stadium in a rich market and have developer agreements providing them the ancillary revenue streams they have craved and never benefitted from before they finally sell the team and split the dividends among the various family branches. In essence, to make them more diversified, similar to the Wirtz family.

Without a real viable alternative, there is little onus for any town or city in the region to give out a small, let alone substantial subsidy, to the Bears.
If they want to go bare bones and build a 500million outdoor stadium? Fine. If they want to spend 1.25 on a dome? Sure. If they want to go all out and find the private funding for a beautiful retractable 2.5billion stadium? Awesome. Is there a demand for hotel, convention, or arena space between Allstate/Rosemont and Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates spaces? I am skeptical, but that is the Bear's bet to make.

I am as much, if not more, concerned with what they plan to do with the area around the stadium and hope they don't permanently muck it up with badly schemed plans that are called "TOD" but end up incorporating the worst of TOD/suburban planning leaving AH with decades of sparely used retail and residential that looks cheap and uninviting, especially on non-game days. If I had to place my early bets that is likely what will come about.

......One major difference going for the AH site vs. the Ravinia site is that Metra has to coordinate many of those with weekday rush hour trains. The logistics of that is more involved then the idea of running more trains on Sunday mornings and afternoons I would guess. Still, I would be slightly shocked if there is more then 3 dedicated Metra trains each way going to Bears games on Sundays in the future. So we are talking under 10k people (or well less then 20% of the stadium). That still leaves a LOT of parking to be had.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:49 PM
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The center of Gravity of a fan going to the game is likely over 40 and most live closer to AH then DT.

Don't know why everyone is throwing a hissy fit. This this is settled. The Bears are not staying in SF or an new Stadium next to it.
People should throw a fit. The bears should finish their lease in the interest of taxpayers who funded their poorly done renovation to their specifications. Then they can leave.
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:51 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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what major transit center is SoFi near?



anyway, yes, SOFI is way more "in town" than an arlington heights stadium would be.

AH is MUCH more in the foxborough realm.


as the crow flies:

SoFi stadium - downtown LA: ~8 miles

foxborourgh - downtown boston: ~21 miles

AH stadium - downtown chicago: ~24 miles

levi's stadium - downtown SF: ~36 miles


a new bears stadium in AH would be the 2nd "furthest out" stadium in the NFL.
Well future transit center. It’s mostly buses now and plans for an imminent expansion.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inglew...nsit_Connector
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 4:56 PM
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^ oh cool, i didn't know about that plan.

still, i'd hardly call an automated guideway connector line to a nearby light rail stop a "major transit center", but it's still good for what it is.

a potential AH stadium with a direct walking connection to a commuter rail station doesn't seem any worse.....

except for the fact that it'll be stubborn old Metra running the show. <sad trombone>
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 5:42 PM
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Agreed with BNK--a new stadium in AH is going to be a major year round attraction for events large and small--very curious what the "entertainment district" outside of the actual stadium is going to include. Maybe some smaller venues (AKA Brooklyn Bowl type place)? Shopping? Top Golf?? So many opportunities to make this a destination for midwestern tourists.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 5:52 PM
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Yeah...they are gone and were going to be from the get go. Bears knew it, the city knew it. This is all just positioning by both sides for best wind down.

The city needs to focus on expanding what SF has to offer. Lock in concert promoters so Beyonce performs there and not at whatever the stupid name of their stadium will be in AH. Get the fire in.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 6:36 PM
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Theres already a topgolf in Schaumberg, they're not opening one there.

They need to open one in the city. An Ikea too.

But yeah. just retrofit SF for the fire and concerts and other events. I have yet to see a massive football stadium mesh well with the urban fabric of a city.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 6:41 PM
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Get the fire in.
they're already there.

and with the bears gone, the turf at SF will likely stay in much better shape for their 17 home games each regular season.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 6:48 PM
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I'm more interested in what their relocation opens up for Grant Park and the Museum Campus. In my opinion the city's been slow to develop Grant Park into something more scenic and less auto-centric because it's been a hybrid park/outdoor event center for most of the last half century.

I'd be interested in the city moving forward with its plans to upgrade the Museum Campus, turning the Lucas Museum parking lot into a great lawn and relocating Huntington Bank Pavilion next to Soldier Field so all three areas can be used in tandem to host large outdoor events, freeing up Grant Park to be... a park.
Bumping this since the thread is a bit more active today, and the reality of the Bears to AH feels a bit closer.

Does anyone know if the Museum Campus improvements that were pitched (save the dome on Soldier Field) were contingent on the Bears staying at Soldier Field?

I really think turning SF and the adjacent areas into the primary downtown outdoor events area could unlock great things for Grant Park...
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 7:32 PM
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So you want none of the things I mentioned. No Super Bowl or anything I suggested for you than. It's the 21st century man. This we will suffer is the cold mentality has to stop, we are in modern times now.
You can watch off of those other thinks I mentioned on TV in a Domed Stadium in some other City.
Why would I want a Super Bowl in Chicago? We have to spend billions on a dome just to be considered for hosting a Super Bowl. Even then we have stiff competition from all the other cities playing the same game, including warm-weather cities that don't need a dome.

The juice ain't worth the squeeze - we're talking about a temporary boost to shops and restaurants in the NW burbs for one week every 20 years. Ask Detroit if their dome was worth it - and in Detroit there was at least some synergy with the rest of downtown.

And I don't believe for a second that the Bears can fund a dome on their own. The dome (by itself) on SF was estimated at $2.2 billion. If you have to build a whole stadium below it, the total is probably $3B-$4B. No matter what kind of real estate development the McCaskeys throw together at Arlington Park, they will not find $4 billion to build a domed stadium. Sooner or later they will come to the state government with their hand out for cash or tax breaks or both.

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Originally Posted by ithakas View Post
Bumping this since the thread is a bit more active today, and the reality of the Bears to AH feels a bit closer.

Does anyone know if the Museum Campus improvements that were pitched (save the dome on Soldier Field) were contingent on the Bears staying at Soldier Field?

I really think turning SF and the adjacent areas into the primary downtown outdoor events area could unlock great things for Grant Park...
No, in fact I think the plans were mainly put together to figure out what happens when the Bears leave. That whole area can be reimagined once we are no longer catering to an NFL team, so it's a good thing that the city has already hired planners to look into this issue.

How the city pays for it is a different question. Mansueto may chip in something. The Bears lease doesn't run out until 2030, so either the city can use that time to line up funding or the Bears break their lease and the city gets a nice fat check from the penalties.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 7:46 PM
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The Bears lease doesn't run out until 2030, so either the city can use that time to line up funding or the Bears break their lease and the city gets a nice fat check from the penalties.
if everything goes reasonably well for the bears, what's the soonest that they could even start playing in an AH stadium?

my guess is 4 years from now at an absolute minimum, so that would be the start of the 2026 season.

but more likely is 5 - 6 years, so maybe the start of the '27 or '28 season, paying penalties for only the last couple years of their SF contract.

i think the city's got some time here.
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