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  #4121  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 12:56 PM
Saskabusher Saskabusher is offline
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Civic bureaucracy is often a noose on development; 20% understandable, 80% patronizing uselessness. https://youtu.be/2bz3OuarClY
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  #4122  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 9:17 AM
roryn1 roryn1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saskabusher View Post
Civic bureaucracy is often a noose on development; 20% understandable, 80% patronizing uselessness. https://youtu.be/2bz3OuarClY
That video blames it on zoning and bureaucracy around that. I still think Saskatoon’s issues is mostly around the monopsony of land owners downtown that won’t give up land to eligible builders. I very clearly see that they won’t give up land for massive Baydo sized projects because they love their high margin suburban condos. You can see this very clearly on the east side of town. All of the landowners downtown have major projects on the fringes on the city, and will continue to do so.
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  #4123  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 3:54 PM
zeebra zeebra is offline
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Damn Aaron Gunn may be an absolute garbage hack, but his presentation is also just terrible.
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  #4124  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 7:13 PM
Saskabusher Saskabusher is offline
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dear Canadian Driver YXE! Please rescue our sorry, lazy-toon asses with some updates;>)

How's main st going? How about 4th and 20th? Baydo 5th ave?

If this was Regina or Winnipeg, we'd have 3 shots a day

You're the only one in all of Saskatoon that seems to be able to photo stuff, now that Roryn's gone. Please save this thread!

no pressure....
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  #4125  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 10:45 PM
Roquentin Roquentin is offline
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This is just a reminder that the public info meeting for the proposal at 8th and Broadway is tonight at 7:00.

https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/8th-...roadway-avenue
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  #4126  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2022, 1:25 AM
CanadianDriverYXE CanadianDriverYXE is offline
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Originally Posted by Saskabusher View Post
dear Canadian Driver YXE! Please rescue our sorry, lazy-toon asses with some updates;>)

How's main st going? How about 4th and 20th? Baydo 5th ave?

If this was Regina or Winnipeg, we'd have 3 shots a day

You're the only one in all of Saskatoon that seems to be able to photo stuff, now that Roryn's gone. Please save this thread!

no pressure....
Thank you for reminding me, I just don't want to bore this forum with pictures that look similar because of the slow progress, and it seems like whenever I am off these days it's already too dark out to take pics. I'll make sure to drive by the construction sites this weekend for some updates!
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  #4127  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2022, 2:23 PM
asdfgh asdfgh is offline
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Originally Posted by Roquentin View Post
This is just a reminder that the public info meeting for the proposal at 8th and Broadway is tonight at 7:00.

https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/8th-...roadway-avenue
Did anyone attend this? If so, how was the reaction? Any new interesting insight from the builder or architects?
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  #4128  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2022, 5:44 PM
Roquentin Roquentin is offline
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Originally Posted by asdfgh View Post
Did anyone attend this? If so, how was the reaction? Any new interesting insight from the builder or architects?
I thought it was quite a good meeting. The first half hour was an overview of the project and a run-through of reasons why it’s ideal for the corner. Emphasis was directed to the proximity of the future Broadway / 8th street BRT route and to the ways in which the project meets corridor planning goals. The project was repeatedly described as being “ahead of the curve” in anticipating and meeting the city’s goals for transit and corridor-oriented urban infill (for example, although the “Nutana Corridor Plan” hasn’t been developed yet, this project is intended to pre-emptively meet those priorities). With respect to new insights on the project, it was mentioned that the appearance of the facade will be consistent around the entire building. So, we’ve seen renderings of the north and east faces of the building, but the other sides of the building will look like that too. Apparently this is the developer's sixth version of the project, and it seems like a great deal of attention has been paid to the finer points: the sidewalks along Broadway and 8th will be widened, trees will be planted along the roadways, public amenity areas are planned at the corners of the development, and so on. This is very much being proposed as an improvement to the area.

The final hour of the meeting was a Q&A session. A lot of people commented in favour of the development, and I’m not sure that anyone was dead-set against it (at least, not in their questions/comments). Most of the questions revolved around traffic and parking. The developer noted that the project is not large enough to have required a traffic impact study, and that it is their contention that the development will not lead to significant traffic impacts to 7th street or the lane at the rear of the property. The development will involve closing the part of the existing lane that connects with 8th street. That section of the lane will be replaced by an entry/exit route that drivers can use to turn right off of, or onto, 8th street, and the idea is that that route will largely eliminate any need to cut through the neighborhood. With respect to parking, the 92 underground spots will be for residents of the building, while the 47 (?) above-ground spots will be for commercial tenants (which are hoped to include grocery and restaurant uses).

Um, what else..... Well, the developer mentioned that the lots on the corner of Broadway and 8th have been vacant for 30 years. With respect to their timeline, a lot of work needs to be done behind the scenes (approvals and permits, detailed plans, etc.), and construction is unlikely to begin in 2023. In the meantime, a transcribed version of the Q&A session will be posted on the city’s page for this proposal in the next month or so.

I left the meeting feeling pretty optimistic about its future. I think it’s exactly right for the corner and could be a model for other developments around the city. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for this one. Cynthia Block was at the meeting, and I hope she feels the same way.

Last edited by Roquentin; Dec 7, 2022 at 5:56 PM.
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  #4129  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 2:34 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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Since we do not have an active Downtown Arena thread yet...

Has anyone else noticed Star Phoenix Murray Mandryck's personal crusade to get the downtown arena project dumped??!! He has published a series of 'opinion pieces' against the project and more recently as been encouraging citizens to initiate a plebiscite to force the arena decision to a vote. This has also resulted in a series of 'letters to the editor' supporting his views. His reporting has not been very balanced.

I am all for everyone expressing their opinions freely, but perhaps those of us who may actually support this kind of development for our city need to be a bit more vocal. As always....those that oppose, always seem to be the more motivated to be heard.

I would encourage supporters on here to, at minimum, remind your city councilor of your support and maybe submit a letter to the editor of Star Phoenix to balance out the opinions! I have!!
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  #4130  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 3:18 PM
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djforsberg djforsberg is offline
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Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
Since we do not have an active Downtown Arena thread yet...

Has anyone else noticed Star Phoenix Murray Mandryck's personal crusade to get the downtown arena project dumped??!! He has published a series of 'opinion pieces' against the project and more recently as been encouraging citizens to initiate a plebiscite to force the arena decision to a vote. This has also resulted in a series of 'letters to the editor' supporting his views. His reporting has not been very balanced.

I am all for everyone expressing their opinions freely, but perhaps those of us who may actually support this kind of development for our city need to be a bit more vocal. As always....those that oppose, always seem to be the more motivated to be heard.

I would encourage supporters on here to, at minimum, remind your city councilor of your support and maybe submit a letter to the editor of Star Phoenix to balance out the opinions! I have!!
Wouldn't a plebiscite be the most democratic way to determine support for it?
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  #4131  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 3:32 PM
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Wouldn't a plebiscite be the most democratic way to determine support for it?
Tough to argue that point. For similar major issues in the past, there have generally been well-organized oppositions. That's why we have Sasktel centre where it is, instead of downtown and why one has to go to Whitecap for the casino, as opposed to what is now the preferred Arena site.

Combined with people who don't often use a particular facility not wanting to see their tax money spent on it, history shows that it's unlikely for a downtown arena to get sufficient support in a plebiscite. While I don't disagree with holding a plebiscite on the Arena, those supporting a plebiscite should remember that there's no way there would be a new Central Library being built if that project needed majority public support. The same could likely be said for the art gallery. Where does one draw the line at allowing City Council to make these decisions?
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  #4132  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 4:33 PM
The Bess The Bess is offline
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looks like BHP decided to move

international mining giant BHP is relocating its headquarters to 50,000 square feet in a converted police station that had sat vacant for years.
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  #4133  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 4:41 PM
asdfgh asdfgh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
Since we do not have an active Downtown Arena thread yet...

Has anyone else noticed Star Phoenix Murray Mandryck's personal crusade to get the downtown arena project dumped??!! He has published a series of 'opinion pieces' against the project and more recently as been encouraging citizens to initiate a plebiscite to force the arena decision to a vote. This has also resulted in a series of 'letters to the editor' supporting his views. His reporting has not been very balanced.

I am all for everyone expressing their opinions freely, but perhaps those of us who may actually support this kind of development for our city need to be a bit more vocal. As always....those that oppose, always seem to be the more motivated to be heard.

I would encourage supporters on here to, at minimum, remind your city councilor of your support and maybe submit a letter to the editor of Star Phoenix to balance out the opinions! I have!!
I think you are referring to Phil Tank, not Mandryck. Mandryck has some credibility as a journalist. Tank seems to solely spend his days trying to insight controversy and rage, whether he has to make things up or not.
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  #4134  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 4:42 PM
asdfgh asdfgh is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bess View Post
looks like BHP decided to move

international mining giant BHP is relocating its headquarters to 50,000 square feet in a converted police station that had sat vacant for years.
Ooooh, that is exciting. Any further details? Does that mean they are moving out of their 3rd Ave location? Or is this in addition to that space?
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  #4135  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 4:50 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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Originally Posted by asdfgh View Post
I think you are referring to Phil Tank, not Mandryck. Mandryck has some credibility as a journalist. Tank seems to solely spend his days trying to insight controversy and rage, whether he has to make things up or not.
Thanks for the correction....you are absolutely right! My apologies to Mr. Mandryck.
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  #4136  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 4:52 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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Ooooh, that is exciting. Any further details? Does that mean they are moving out of their 3rd Ave location? Or is this in addition to that space?
I would be surprised if they are leaving their current building, unless there are issues with it that we might not be aware of. My guess is that this is an expansion. I am happy for the developer of the Police Station....he took a risk and it has taken a while for that to pay off for him.
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  #4137  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 5:01 PM
YXE YXE is offline
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That's great news regarding BHP, unless they are simply relocating from their existing space. Hopefully this is an expansion in addition to the current location. Given the tailwinds in potash over the last twelve-months it wouldn't be a surprise to see BHP attempt to expedite construction of the Jansen mine. Unfortunately, this likely signals we won't see construction of a new downtown tower as a result of BHP's further investment in the province. BHP wouldn't have signed a lease in this building if they thought they'd need more space in a third location in just a few years.
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  #4138  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 5:07 PM
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FarmerHaight FarmerHaight is offline
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Tough to argue that point. For similar major issues in the past, there have generally been well-organized oppositions.
I am all for public consultation, but there are many reasons why allowing the people to decide on arenas or freeways or other large public projects is problematic.

First, voter turnout in 2020 was 27%. It's generally true that turnout is strongest among older, retired voters. So if you ask a bunch of people who own their home and aren't likely to attend a Taylor Swift concert if they want a bunch of public money spent on an arena, they are likely to think "I won't use it but it's my tax money being spent; to hell with it!"

Second, the organization against projects is often much more fierce than organization for them. One obvious reason is because the mayor doesn't have time to spend all day on community Facebook pages lobbying for the project, but Barb down the street who is retired does. Another reason is because negativity is more attractive than positivity - just look at how social media algorithms have been tweaked to generate the strongest reactions which typically involves showing users something that makes them angry.

Third, most of the voting public does not have the expertise or interest to become fully informed about large projects. Just look at the library project. Many people online complain about how much they're going to have to pay for the new library "when I don't even read books!", when the library levy is actually only being increased by about $5 per year for the average homeowner which is hardly a significant cost. The arena will fall victim to the same half-baked critiques, whether about the funding model, a lack of parking, positive externalities (or a lack thereof), or even a lack of need ("just renovate the old barn").

So while I think the public should have input on design, location, amenities, etc., I do not think the public should make the final call on this project.
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  #4139  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 5:27 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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Well said FarmerHaight.

You expressed all my shared opinion far more eloquently then I could. Your reasons are the same as mine when it comes to hesitancy of a plebiscite over major public infrastructure projects.

BTW....I am one of those older, mortgage paid off citizens. However, I see the benefit to our city/province for investments like this and even if I may not see the kind of use of the facility that I would hope by the time it is done, I still see the huge benefit to the citizens. This is an investment in the future. (also, us old folks still like some current stuff....I go to lacrosse games and my wife and I still say PINK was our fave concert in the last few years...but we had to go to TO for that one! haha)
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  #4140  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 7:41 PM
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Fair points all around but I still think our municipal governments could be more democratic, which requires more public engagement. Supporters of big ticket projects should do more to win people over.

A voter turnout of 27% is pathetic. Municipal politics effects people more directly than federal yet federal gets the most attention. Our attention is being centralized to our detriment.

Funny enough, I think Saskatoon is definitely due for a new arena in a more practical location. My city of Regina, on the other hand, has other priorities that I think we should be putting money towards.
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