Historical Winnipeg discussion

[1ajs]

its a shame the ogilive mill shut down... seems stupid to ship the grain to toronto and then ship it back as flower.........

but yea theres a bunch of stupid this that have happend in our econimy that have seen alot of the industries that made cities self seficent......

[Andy6]

Forgot about Tokyo Joe's...I'll need to revise this now! Never thought of that as the remnant of an old residential neighbourhood.

I don't believe that Notre Dame ever actually cut across the Portage and Main corner, no. It was named Notre Dame during a brief period when a bridge connected it to Notre Dame Street in St. Boniface.

[rgalston]

I don't think Notre Dame ran across Main st. either. By the time they surveyed Notre Dame, there were buildings at the SW corner of Portage and Main. It would be interesting to think of what it'd be like if it did.

Frontenac Hotel was built in 1881, and if I'm correct, it was home to St. Mary's Academy before they moved to Academy Road. I also had heard that Notre Dame was named thusly because of St. Mary's.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rgalston

I don't think Notre Dame ran across Main st. either. By the time they surveyed Notre Dame, there were buildings at the SW corner of Portage and Main. It would be interesting to think of what it'd be like if it did.

Frontenac Hotel was built in 1881, and if I'm correct, it was home to St. Mary's Academy before they moved to Academy Road. I also had heard that Notre Dame was named thusly because of St. Mary's.

You're right...it is the old St. Mary's Academy.

I didn't really realize that there were so many buildings in this part of the Exchange at one time. It seems as though this was sort of a second-tier commercial district, featuring plainer buildings that lacked the prestigious lead tenants that the buildings closer to Portage and Main had. Maybe they were thrown up pretty quickly on spec during the boom period when office space would have been as short as it is in Calgary today. Aside from the Nutty Club buildings, the Keewayden is the only major survivor of the district...now I understand what it's doing there.

Recognizing Tokyo Joe's as a weird survival from the area's short-lived residential period is neat as well. You never know what you're going to find. I guess that Tokyo Joe's is actually a combination of 151 Water and 132 Notre Dame East? I can't really remember what it looks like.

I am not sure what the large building on the south (or east) side of Victoria (Westbrook) was. I have only a 1922 Henderson Directory to work with and it doesn't seem to list this structure, so maybe it had been erected between then and 1928.

[1ajs]

man its nice to live in the past and injoy what we had and still have

[rgalston]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I am not sure what the large building on the south (or east) side of Victoria (Westbrook) was. I have only a 1922 Henderson Directory to work with and it doesn't seem to list this structure, so maybe it had been erected between then and 1928.

You don't mean the Codville Warehouse that stood on Westbrook at the foot of Portage Ave. E?


Amazingly, that building was demolished in 1993.


Editions of the Henderson Directories seem to be pretty expensive. I found one from 1959 in a store on Osborne for something like $75. I think I'll just stick to photo-copying pages at the library.

[Andy6]

Yes. It is listed in 1922 as Codville property, but it's not clear that there's a building there yet. I had no idea we were still demolishing Exchange Distict warehouses as recently as 1993.

I don't have the physical directory but there is an online 1922 edition available through my (paid) ancestry.com subscription. I don't think the National Library's digitization project has done any Henderson's directories yet, although they have done some from other cities.

[1ajs]

think this shot is from atop union tower

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

There goes Winnipeg, livin in the past again.

Just kidding, I wish Calgary had half the history Winnipeg does, and I wish we didn't tear down all of our history to build a bunch of 20 storey concrete boxes and empty parking lots.

Cool thread.

Dude, haven't you heard? that's called "progress"

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by newflyer

I do agree that Winnipegers do seem to ponder the past much to often, but with its very rich history it is easily expalined.

As far as Calgary goes... it disappoints me that Penny Lane is coming down. One of the few remaining historic blocks in downtown... turning to rubble. There seems to be absolutely no interest in Calgary at retaining any of its history. Its a 180 from Winnipeg where even 100 year old crap is deemed more worthy than any thing new. The future seems to take a backseat to the past far too often, even when there is little to nothing to save. Ex: the 100 Main arguement.

I believe it was Mark Twain that said the history of a city defines its character, but its future is defined by its ambition.

There has been a new found appreciation to retain Calgary's history in the past few years, unfortunately all the original permits and such for Penny Lane had gone through without trouble before this new found interest presented itself. For example, there's a bunch of interest in restoring this dilapidated block: http://www.calgaryheritage.org/phpbb....php?p=903#903
Sadly though in the past 30+ years many gems have gone.

Seeing these Winnipeg pics are kinda sad.. I love the way cities used to have like 10 buildings per block side, narrow but several stories high.. if I ever end up a billionaire I'm going to make sure to buy some downtown parking lot and only sell it off as small area parcels.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

There has been a new found appreciation to retain Calgary's history in the past few years, unfortunately all the original permits and such for Penny Lane had gone through without trouble before this new found interest presented itself. For example, there's a bunch of interest in restoring this dilapidated block: http://www.calgaryheritage.org/phpbb....php?p=903#903
Sadly though in the past 30+ years many gems have gone.

The difference is also that most of downtown Calgary was actually houses up until the 60s. Most buildings were under 5 stories tall. Calgary didnt exactly have a ton of heritage buildings to begin with.

The population of Calgary was also a tenth of the size of Winnipeg when most of the Exchange District was developing in Winnipeg.

The difference is that of the remaining heritage buildings in Calgary most of them have been completely renovated and are fully occupied. Whereas in Winnipeg most of the buildings are vacant and quickly deteriorating. The costs of maintaining the empty buildings is becoming cost prohibative for those that own them and there aren't enough people or businesses willing to invest in the properties.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The tallest of these buildings in the middle (with the large columns...sorry, don't know the name, only remember it as Comic World at one point), looked to have a caved-in roof several years ago when I was staying at the Radisson across the street and had a great view to the north.

Was this building destroyed in a fire? Or, were my eyes just decieving me?

BTW - Andy, thanks for posting all the cool old aerials...extremely cool. Are these all out of that book you mention, or some other archive?

So, here's a question to "poll" everyone here - what is the building lamented the most after being torn-down? One of my favourites was the old city hall...

On doing a quick search, this site came up with a whole bunch of fantastic "post cards" from way back:

http://www.manitobaphotos.com/postcards.htm

[IntotheWest]

^On that site, there's a picture of Main Street about half way down the page...could've been a shot of Chicago or NY - amazing.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by h0twired

The difference is also that most of downtown Calgary was actually houses up until the 60s. Most buildings were under 5 stories tall. Calgary didnt exactly have a ton of heritage buildings to begin with.

The population of Calgary was also a tenth of the size of Winnipeg when most of the Exchange District was developing in Winnipeg.

The difference is that of the remaining heritage buildings in Calgary most of them have been completely renovated and are fully occupied. Whereas in Winnipeg most of the buildings are vacant and quickly deteriorating. The costs of maintaining the empty buildings is becoming cost prohibative for those that own them and there aren't enough people or businesses willing to invest in the properties.

It's really a shame, although falling apart tends to happen slower than being bulldozed which has happened here during past booms. I'm hoping to go to winnipeg this year, never been.
Question, what is the office space market like in downtown Winnipeg? healthy? a glut of class A space? shortage?

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

The tallest of these buildings in the middle (with the large columns...sorry, don't know the name, only remember it as Comic World at one point), looked to have a caved-in roof several years ago when I was staying at the Radisson across the street and had a great view to the north.

Was this building destroyed in a fire? Or, were my eyes just decieving me?


http://www.manitobaphotos.com/postcards.htm

Are you sure that was Comic World? It was Mitchell Copp Jewellers as well and is usually known as the Mitchell Copp Building. There was a fire, I don't remember when, and it's basically just the facade left at this point. The owner is holding out for $$$ . . .

[trueviking]

yup it was comic world briefly....it moved there from the exchange when i was a kid.

i didnt know it was only a facade....i remember when the guy bought it there was a big to do in the paper about how he was confident in the renewal of portage avenue so he was taking a chance on this building....taking a chance by letting it rot for 15 years.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by h0twired

The difference is that of the remaining heritage buildings in Calgary most of them have been completely renovated and are fully occupied. Whereas in Winnipeg most of the buildings are vacant and quickly deteriorating. The costs of maintaining the empty buildings is becoming cost prohibative for those that own them and there aren't enough people or businesses willing to invest in the properties.

it is a misconception that our heritage buildings are mostly empty...the vast majority are not.

there are very few empty buildings in the exchange district.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by h0twired

The difference is also that most of downtown Calgary was actually houses up until the 60s. Most buildings were under 5 stories tall. Calgary didnt exactly have a ton of heritage buildings to begin with.

The population of Calgary was also a tenth of the size of Winnipeg when most of the Exchange District was developing in Winnipeg.

The difference is that of the remaining heritage buildings in Calgary most of them have been completely renovated and are fully occupied. Whereas in Winnipeg most of the buildings are vacant and quickly deteriorating. The costs of maintaining the empty buildings is becoming cost prohibative for those that own them and there aren't enough people or businesses willing to invest in the properties.

As far as Calgary goes I'd love to see the old Grain Exchange building across from Encana Place on 1st SW, near the Palliser Hotel. Its a fabulous building, but its age is showing, with wiring running outside the walls and such. It is full of lowend tenants, but it would be great if it recieved some much needed attention inside and out.

Winnipeg does have a large pool of heritage buildings in the exchange. The fact that the exchange was not just commercial office buildings, but also very large warehouses, industrial and manufacturing buildings were a part of the makeup of the area. Today's reality, many of these buildings are finding new life as condos, lofts and office space. It must be remembered it takes a significant investment to bring a 100 year old building up to modern codes for residence. Old lead pipes, cancer causing insolation and murcury switches are all commonly found in old builings such as these. They need to be gutted and then introduced to modern utilities, wiring as well as digital technology. Its not just a simple process of buying are leasing them out.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by newflyer

As far as Calgary goes I'd love to see the old Grain Exchange building across from Encana Place on 1st SW, near the Palliser Hotel. Its a fabulous building, but its age is showing, with wiring running outside the walls and such. It is full of lowend tenants, but it would be great if it recieved some much needed attention inside and out.

Winnipeg does have a large pool of heritage buildings in the exchange. The fact that the exchange was not just commercial office buildings, but also very large warehouses, industrial and manufacturing buildings were a part of the makeup of the area. Today's reality, many of these buildings are finding new life as condos, lofts and office space. It must be remembered it takes a significant investment to bring a 100 year old building up to modern codes for residence. Old lead pipes, cancer causing insolation and murcury switches are all commonly found in old builings such as these. They need to be gutted and then introduced to modern utilities, wiring as well as digital technology. Its not just a simple process of buying are leasing them out.

The reason I asked if downtown winnipeg could use some more class A office space, is here in Calgary Neil Richardson and his company have restored several properties (Lorraine apts, Lougheed building) into office space, his general modus operandi is to gut most of the building and bring up to the highest spec, while restoring the outside and maybe the lobby and first couple floors back to original. He's recently been buying properties in smaller town outside calgary as he's sorta run out of projects in town, I wonder if Winnipeg could use his touch.

[trueviking]

http://www.cbre.ca/NR/rdonlyres/C68A...peg1q07ofc.pdf

class A 8% vacancy

the indicators are all there for greater demand for office space...job growth, economic growth, population growth, but it doesnt ever seem to come to fruition....18 months ago CBRE predicted 1 million square feet of new office space would be needed in winnipeg....still waiting.

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/20051007200