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  #321  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2023, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
A new spectacular residence built with BC Cedar and Ontario Granite etc would be a good investment.
Newfoundland: Screech
Nova Scotia: Fish
PEI: Potatoes
New Brunswick: RCMP
Quebec: Poutine
Manitoba: Buffalo
Saskatchewn: Potash
Alberta: Oil
Yukon: Aurora Borealis
Northwest Territories: Whale
Nunavut: Polar Bear

I think we might be getting somewhere...
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  #322  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2023, 5:08 PM
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This is where people are watching way too much West Wing. The Prime Minister is not the Head of State, or the Head of State's representative in Canada. If Joe Biden visits it is highly unlikely he would visit the residence of the PM, even if it were made of BC Cedar. If he did, it would be for a very informal, very small gathering. For the same reason when Biden visits the UK he doesn't go to Number 10.

The PM has lots of places to host others. The official guest house at 7 Rideau Gate can host a range of events. The Pearson Building has has an entire floor used for nothing but hospitality functions. The Diefenbaker building has a number of hospitality options as does Parliament Hill. Also, Harrington Lake is very popular with foreign leaders, it gets them some Canadiana for their instagram accounts.

And frankly, this PM, like his predecessor, has generally avoided stuffy formal venues for more informal venues. You may recall a few years ago he had lunch with the Belgian PM at Claude's chip wagon. He had dinner with Obama at Liverpool House in Montreal House a few years ago.

I get it that there is a nostalgia for the Mad Men era when the PM's spouse might host dinner parties for Ottawa socialites. That era is gone.
I had heard that Global Affairs plans to convert the 9th floor to office space as part of the ongoing Reno’s.
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  #323  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2023, 5:29 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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I had heard that Global Affairs plans to convert the 9th floor to office space as part of the ongoing Reno’s.
It's not G20 leaders level anyway. Generally these things are done at parliament. PM's Office for the 1 on 1. Harper hosted Obama at a 20 person lunch hosted in the Senate speaker's dining room. Catered by 24 Sussex. Tell me again how we don't do such things.
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  #324  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 5:38 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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I’m good with a NEW residence for the PM being primarily that, a RESIDENCE.

Yes, it needs to be capable of hosting a small-ish delegation of, say 15-20, for a meeting and dinner. There might also be 10, or so, extra bedrooms, for guests. There should be office space for the Prime Minister and, perhaps, a couple of other small offices that others can use temporarily.

This needs to remain the RESIDENCE of the PM and must not be over-taken with infrastructure for massive government functions. There are already other spaces for that. This is someone’s house and needs to remain intimate, not an office complex where a family happens to live.
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  #325  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 2:40 PM
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24 Sussex Drive is empty but the utility bills are still soaring
Did staff forget to turn down the thermostat when they left in late December? And is someone using the swimming pool?

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Published Mar 20, 2023 • Last updated 2 hours ago • 3 minute read


As Canada struggles to reduce carbon emissions, the country’s most famous house — 24 Sussex Drive — is guzzling energy, even though it is vacant.

Nobody lives there and nobody works there, but the house continues to run up sky-high bills for heat, hydro and water — thanks in large part to Pierre Trudeau’s indoor swimming pool and sauna.

New information from an access to information request shows that in January, the vacant building had more than $8,000 in utilities bills. No one has lived in the official residence of prime ministers since the Harpers left in 2015.

Until recently, staff from the Prime Minister’s Office were still using some of the building as office space in the daytime.

Last winter, the home had monthly hydro bills in the $6,000 to $7,000 range, on top of gas bills of around $2,000.
But that changed this fall. The PMO moved everyone out in preparation for major repairs and upgrades scheduled for this spring. By the end of December, no one was living or working in the house. (There are two guards huts, still staffed.)

However the costs of running No. 24 did not drop far once the staff moved out.

Our access to information request shows that from Dec. 31 to Jan. 31, taxpayers spent $4,947 on hydro for the old house. (The December hydro bill, before everyone moved out, was $6,710.)

They spent another $3,153 on gas in January, and $568 for water, which is billed over two months.

The continuing high bills illustrate how achieving Canada’s climate goals may be much harder than people think, said Tom Adams, a veteran energy analyst.

“It’s easy to sign a piece of paper” committing the country to progress, he said. But older buildings are hard to modernize, and they last a long time.

“Five grand!” he said of the hydro bill. “You can’t spend $5,000 for electricity on lighting.”

He suspects there’s a patchwork of heating systems — a gas furnace backed up by electric heaters in rooms where the regular heating system isn’t enough, for instance, or for rooms that are extra chilly, plus pool heating.

“One (possible) explanation for these spectacular bills is simply that the NCC forgot to turn down the thermostat. They’re just running the place as though it’s going to be filled with people,” he said.

Kamran Siddiqui, a mechanical engineering professor at Western University, said the age and inefficiency of the house would increase gas consumption, but should have little effect on hydro usage.

He said, however, that hydro use would be higher if the electricity is being used for heating — either for supplementary electric heaters in chilly parts of the house, or for heating the pool. Heating water, he said, requires more energy than heating air.

So, who’s using the pool and sauna?

The NCC referred the question to the Privy Council Office.
The PCO referred it to the Prime Minister’s Office. The PMO did not respond to the question, asked last week.

The house has 34 rooms and covers approximately 1,115 square meters (12,000 square feet). It is notoriously drafty and inefficient. News media who visited there during the Harper years noticed ice on the insides of windows.

The pool and sauna house was built in 1975, paid for by anonymous private donors. But upkeep was left to taxpayers.

Meanwhile the NCC says repairs will continue. It says work this spring “will include the abatement of designated substances such as asbestos, as well as the removal of obsolete mechanical, heating and electrical systems.”

The commission has long said the old home is in such disrepair that eventually it must either be torn down and replaced or renovated from top to bottom. But this spring’s work is so urgent that it “must be completed regardless of any future decision on the residence.”

It says there are “matters of great concern such as potential fire hazards, water damage and air quality issues.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/24-su...-still-soaring
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  #326  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:48 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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It's not G20 leaders level anyway. Generally these things are done at parliament. PM's Office for the 1 on 1. Harper hosted Obama at a 20 person lunch hosted in the Senate speaker's dining room. Catered by 24 Sussex. Tell me again how we don't do such things.
The real work is done at Old City Hall or whatever it was Harper renamed it as.
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  #327  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2023, 11:07 PM
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PM's official residence closed following discovery of walls full of dead rodents
Documents obtained by the National Post detail numerous serious safety concerns about the deteriorating condition of 24 Sussex Drive

Bryan Passifiume, The National Post
Published Apr 03, 2023 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 5 minute read


OTTAWA — Attempts to control a significant rodent infestation at the prime minister’s official residence left so many carcasses within the walls and basement that serious questions were raised about the home’s air quality.

In newly released documents obtained by the National Post via an access to information request, National Capital Commission staff detailed numerous serious safety concerns about the deteriorating condition of 24 Sussex Drive — prompting the decision last fall to close the home and relocate staff still working at the official residence.

“There is an important rodent infestation, which can’t be fully addressed until the building envelope issues are resolved,” the note from late June read.

“In the meantime, we use bait to control the situation, but that leaves us with excrement and carcasses between the walls and in the attic and basement spaces.”

This, the note states, leads to “real concerns with air quality.”

Completed in 1896, 24 Sussex Drive is a 35-room, four-floor mansion that’s served as the prime minister’s official residence since 1951 when Louis St. Laurent moved in. It was classified as a federal heritage building in 1986.

Stephen Harper was the last prime minister to live at 24 Sussex. Current PM Justin Trudeau, who spent much of his childhood in the home when his father was prime minister, has chosen instead to live at Rideau cottage on the grounds of Rideau Hall.

While nobody lives on the property, the grounds are frequently used for functions and garden parties — but even that comes with risks, the report stated.

“Just last week there was a garden party hosting 1,500 people on the day we had tornado warnings for the area,” the notes read.

“If a meteorological event would have occurred, human nature could have led to hundreds of guests rushing into this uninhabitable building, which is a risk we can’t accept.”

Until safety issues prompted the NCC to close the official residence in November, the home was still occupied by six workers — most notably the prime minister’s chef and kitchen staff, who prepared the Trudeau family’s meals and transported them to Rideau cottage.

When questioned where the PM’s meals would be prepared after the residence’s closure, the NCC declined to say — only that staff was being relocated to “another NCC property.”

Any mentions of where the 24 Sussex staff were relocated were redacted in the released documents.

Aside from walls stacked with dead rodents, the presentation also highlighted other safety risks in the residence, including asbestos and decaying insulation on electrical wiring.

“There is a serious risk associated to the electrical systems, which is why we consider the building a fire hazard,” the notes state.

An incident last summer involving electrical arcing in a lighting fixture highlights the dangers of the building’s wiring, which the note says has become dangerous due to disintegrating insulation.

“The electrical system is not only a risk to the users,” the note read.

“If last summer’s incident had occurred at night with no one to report it, devastating and irreparable damage would have ensued.”

Mould, water infiltration, corroding plumbing and asbestos are also listed as urgent concerns.

“This is manageable under normal circumstances, but with the state of this property, there is unfortunately many signs of flaking paint and friable ACM (asbestos-containing materials) which requires considerable and prompt interventions.”

The mansion at 24 Sussex Drive is one of six official residences maintained by the NCC, and is by far in the worst condition.

A 2021 NCC asset portfolio report paints a grim picture of the state of the residence.

“The official residences reflect the nation to Canadians and to foreign visitors, so they must be maintained at a level that reflects the importance of the role of the residents,” the report read.

“However, funding for official residences has been so constrained in the last several decades that properties such as 24 Sussex no longer reflect even this basic standard.”

Capital expenditures for the official residences portfolio average around $6.1 million per year, the NCC maintains, prompting the commission to defer or delay much-needed repairs and to list the condition of 24 Sussex Drive as “critical.”

The report suggested renovations amounting to $36.6 million were needed to restore the home from “critical” to “good” condition.

A 2022 NCC briefing note to the Privy Council Office states “no significant investment” had taken place in 24 Sussex Drive in over six decades, save for a series of emergency repairs and stabilization efforts over the years.

Remediation work to remove asbestos and address faulty wiring is set to being this spring.

According to documents obtained earlier this year by the Ottawa Citizen, the building is still costing taxpayers thousands of dollars in utility bills.

The hydro bill for the residence topped $4,947 in January 2023, along with $3,153 in gas and a $568 water bill.

Despite the home only being used by a handful of staff, the June 2022 note states the residence’s pool and sauna building — commissioned in 1975 by Pierre Trudeau — was “still used on a very frequent basis.”

Questions to the NCC on who used the pool were directed instead to the Privy Council Office, who in turn forwarded the National Post’s query to the Prime Minister’s Office, who didn’t offer a response by press time.

Public sentiment remains split over what to do about 24 Sussex Drive.

An Angus Reid poll conducted earlier this year reported 41 per cent of Canadians are in favour of spending millions to renovate the home, 26 per cent said to tear it down without replacing it, and 33 per cent want to see it torn down and replaced with a modern home and offices.

Franco Terrazzano, federal director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said that there’s no reason why renovations at 24 Sussex Drive should be so expensive.

“The NCC is like the contractor your buddy warns you never to hire because it’s only competent at ballooning the tab,” he said.

“An entire rethink is needed because taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook for multiple mansions for the prime minister, and the leader of the opposition shouldn’t get a taxpayer-funded mansion. The status quo isn’t working and the NCC needs to come back with a plan to sort this mess out that doesn’t cost taxpayers an arm and a leg.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/prime-...nt-infestation
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  #328  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 1:46 AM
DarthVader_1961 DarthVader_1961 is online now
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
PM's official residence closed following discovery of walls full of dead rodents
Documents obtained by the National Post detail numerous serious safety concerns about the deteriorating condition of 24 Sussex Drive

Bryan Passifiume, The National Post
Published Apr 03, 2023 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 5 minute read


OTTAWA — Attempts to control a significant rodent infestation at the prime minister’s official residence left so many carcasses within the walls and basement that serious questions were raised about the home’s air quality.

In newly released documents obtained by the National Post via an access to information request, National Capital Commission staff detailed numerous serious safety concerns about the deteriorating condition of 24 Sussex Drive — prompting the decision last fall to close the home and relocate staff still working at the official residence.

“There is an important rodent infestation, which can’t be fully addressed until the building envelope issues are resolved,” the note from late June read.

“In the meantime, we use bait to control the situation, but that leaves us with excrement and carcasses between the walls and in the attic and basement spaces.”

This, the note states, leads to “real concerns with air quality.”

Completed in 1896, 24 Sussex Drive is a 35-room, four-floor mansion that’s served as the prime minister’s official residence since 1951 when Louis St. Laurent moved in. It was classified as a federal heritage building in 1986.

Stephen Harper was the last prime minister to live at 24 Sussex. Current PM Justin Trudeau, who spent much of his childhood in the home when his father was prime minister, has chosen instead to live at Rideau cottage on the grounds of Rideau Hall.

While nobody lives on the property, the grounds are frequently used for functions and garden parties — but even that comes with risks, the report stated.

“Just last week there was a garden party hosting 1,500 people on the day we had tornado warnings for the area,” the notes read.

“If a meteorological event would have occurred, human nature could have led to hundreds of guests rushing into this uninhabitable building, which is a risk we can’t accept.”

Until safety issues prompted the NCC to close the official residence in November, the home was still occupied by six workers — most notably the prime minister’s chef and kitchen staff, who prepared the Trudeau family’s meals and transported them to Rideau cottage.

When questioned where the PM’s meals would be prepared after the residence’s closure, the NCC declined to say — only that staff was being relocated to “another NCC property.”

Any mentions of where the 24 Sussex staff were relocated were redacted in the released documents.

Aside from walls stacked with dead rodents, the presentation also highlighted other safety risks in the residence, including asbestos and decaying insulation on electrical wiring.

“There is a serious risk associated to the electrical systems, which is why we consider the building a fire hazard,” the notes state.

An incident last summer involving electrical arcing in a lighting fixture highlights the dangers of the building’s wiring, which the note says has become dangerous due to disintegrating insulation.

“The electrical system is not only a risk to the users,” the note read.

“If last summer’s incident had occurred at night with no one to report it, devastating and irreparable damage would have ensued.”

Mould, water infiltration, corroding plumbing and asbestos are also listed as urgent concerns.

“This is manageable under normal circumstances, but with the state of this property, there is unfortunately many signs of flaking paint and friable ACM (asbestos-containing materials) which requires considerable and prompt interventions.”

The mansion at 24 Sussex Drive is one of six official residences maintained by the NCC, and is by far in the worst condition.

A 2021 NCC asset portfolio report paints a grim picture of the state of the residence.

“The official residences reflect the nation to Canadians and to foreign visitors, so they must be maintained at a level that reflects the importance of the role of the residents,” the report read.

“However, funding for official residences has been so constrained in the last several decades that properties such as 24 Sussex no longer reflect even this basic standard.”

Capital expenditures for the official residences portfolio average around $6.1 million per year, the NCC maintains, prompting the commission to defer or delay much-needed repairs and to list the condition of 24 Sussex Drive as “critical.”

The report suggested renovations amounting to $36.6 million were needed to restore the home from “critical” to “good” condition.

A 2022 NCC briefing note to the Privy Council Office states “no significant investment” had taken place in 24 Sussex Drive in over six decades, save for a series of emergency repairs and stabilization efforts over the years.

Remediation work to remove asbestos and address faulty wiring is set to being this spring.

According to documents obtained earlier this year by the Ottawa Citizen, the building is still costing taxpayers thousands of dollars in utility bills.

The hydro bill for the residence topped $4,947 in January 2023, along with $3,153 in gas and a $568 water bill.

Despite the home only being used by a handful of staff, the June 2022 note states the residence’s pool and sauna building — commissioned in 1975 by Pierre Trudeau — was “still used on a very frequent basis.”

Questions to the NCC on who used the pool were directed instead to the Privy Council Office, who in turn forwarded the National Post’s query to the Prime Minister’s Office, who didn’t offer a response by press time.

Public sentiment remains split over what to do about 24 Sussex Drive.

An Angus Reid poll conducted earlier this year reported 41 per cent of Canadians are in favour of spending millions to renovate the home, 26 per cent said to tear it down without replacing it, and 33 per cent want to see it torn down and replaced with a modern home and offices.

Franco Terrazzano, federal director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said that there’s no reason why renovations at 24 Sussex Drive should be so expensive.

“The NCC is like the contractor your buddy warns you never to hire because it’s only competent at ballooning the tab,” he said.

“An entire rethink is needed because taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook for multiple mansions for the prime minister, and the leader of the opposition shouldn’t get a taxpayer-funded mansion. The status quo isn’t working and the NCC needs to come back with a plan to sort this mess out that doesn’t cost taxpayers an arm and a leg.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/prime-...nt-infestation
This gets more embarrassing every time a report comes out…
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  #329  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 2:12 AM
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JT trying to pull a Somerset House 🙃
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  #330  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 4:11 PM
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  #331  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 5:27 PM
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I have said it before, but will say it again. Given that the building bears little resemblance to the original structure, and it didn't even become the official residence of the prime minister until 1951, we should just tear it down and build something more appropriate.
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  #332  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 6:10 PM
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I have said it before, but will say it again. Given that the building bears little resemblance to the original structure, and it didn't even become the official residence of the prime minister until 1951, we should just tear it down and build something more appropriate.
At this point, that's where I'm leaning. Tear it down now to save on critical repairs and utilities, then we can continue debating on what comes next for 20 years for all I care.
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  #333  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 6:13 PM
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The pool and sauna house was built in 1975, paid for by anonymous private donors. But upkeep was left to taxpayers.
Soooo... Pierre Trudeau paid for it himself? Always thought it was taxpayers.

Really hoping that the Trudeaus are using it. Otherwise, another fantastic example of Government waste by heating an unused pool. Wouldn't be surprised.
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  #334  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 6:30 PM
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Canadians often confuse nostalgia for heritage.
The Prime Minister needs a house. An impressive one. This heavy, meritless, rodent-infested pile is gothic in the worst sense.

Let’s look to the Chancellor’s House in Germany, or the newer official Prime Minister’s residences in Japan and Korea if we need permission to be forward thinking.
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  #335  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 6:47 PM
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Soooo... Pierre Trudeau paid for it himself? Always thought it was taxpayers.
Unknown wealthy benefactors, in an era when that was a thing.
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  #336  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 7:01 PM
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Let’s look to the Chancellor’s House in Germany, or the newer official Prime Minister’s residences in Japan and Korea if we need permission to be forward thinking.
Those are all office buildings that house the offices that support the PM and cabinet as well as a private apartment for the PM.

Unless somebody takes the decision that PMO (and maybe PCO) should be located out of downtown or the PM's residence should be relocated to downtown then they are not particularly good models.
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  #337  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 10:02 PM
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Those are all office buildings that house the offices that support the PM and cabinet as well as a private apartment for the PM.

Unless somebody takes the decision that PMO (and maybe PCO) should be located out of downtown or the PM's residence should be relocated to downtown then they are not particularly good models.
Those examples were cited to offer alternatives of form (architecture) and function (that the official residence is more than a private home).

If the brief is to maintain the status quo and need to see examples of properly restored or well designed stately homes in the inner suburbs … oof. It really shouldn’t be such a challenging issue.
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  #338  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Boo Kay View Post
Those examples were cited to offer alternatives of form (architecture) and function (that the official residence is more than a private home).

If the brief is to maintain the status quo and need to see examples of properly restored or well designed stately homes in the inner suburbs … oof. It really shouldn’t be such a challenging issue.
A building has to have a purpose. Without a plan to move functions there it is really just a private home.
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  #339  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2023, 10:26 PM
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Unknown wealthy benefactors, in an era when that was a thing.
That was my understanding.
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  #340  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2023, 12:23 AM
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Trudeau leaving fate of 24 Sussex Dr. to NCC amid rodent infestation reports

Ian Bailey, The Globe and Mail
Published 6 hours ago | Updated 5 hours ago


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says work is under way to decide the fate of 24 Sussex Dr., the official residence of Canada’s prime ministers since 1951, amid reports of an appalling rodent infestation in the 155-year-old building.

“I know there have been ongoing consultations and important processes to balance the historical heritage nature of that building and the needs of government and of Canadians going forward,” Mr. Trudeau said at a news conference Wednesday.

The Ottawa residence was built in 1868 as a lumber baron’s home, and Mr. Trudeau lived there as a child when his father was prime minister. But since he became Prime Minister in 2015, he and his family have lived in nearby Rideau Cottage, which he described during the news conference as a “smaller but better place.”

He said talks are continuing within the National Capital Commission (NCC), which is in charge of official residences, and the Department of Public Works.

Documents from the NCC say the rodent infestation at 24 Sussex is so severe that the walls, attic and basement are filled with carcasses and excrement.

The issues were first reported by the National Post, which obtained the documents through an access-to-information request.

The NCC has now published the documents and says the rodent problem is causing air-quality concerns. After 60 years of mounting repairs, the commission moved the final group of staff out of the building last year for health and safety reasons.

It says the rodent problem cannot be addressed until issues with the building’s exterior walls, foundation, roof and windows are fixed.

In his memoir, released in January, former finance minister Bill Morneau wrote that he once proposed bringing together former prime ministers to review the condition and upkeep of two publicly funded residences for Canada’s leaders, but the idea was ignored.

“I received little or no response to my idea, which I attributed to an unfortunate fear of backlash from various quarters against spending public funds on what were essentially two private residences,” he wrote.

Mr. Trudeau has previously said 24 Sussex has been neglected by many generations of politicians and prime ministers and is “in terrible condition.”

The NCC has chronicled the decline of the property from neglect and has said it would cost about $36.6-million to properly renovate the building.

Follow Ian Bailey on Twitter: @ianabailey

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...u-ncc-rodents/
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