German culture in America

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The lower IL/MI numbers are almost assuredly due to being the least white states overall, meaning there probably isn't appreciable difference in (reported) German ancestry among whites anywhere in the Midwest).

Good point. It's probably bc it has the most Mexicans.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The lower IL/MI numbers are almost assuredly due to being the least white states overall, meaning there probably isn't appreciable difference in (reported) German ancestry among whites anywhere in the Midwest).

that's certainly true for IL, the biggest demographic outlier in the midwest (mainly due to the giant % of latinos in chicagoland), but MI falls much more in-line with the rest of the midwest when it comes to NHW %, so something else must be going on there.


midwest states by 2020 NHW %:

IL: 58.3%

KS: 72.2%
MI: 72.4%
IN: 75.5%
NE: 75.7%
MO: 75.8%
OH: 75.9%
MN: 76.3%
WI: 78.4%
SD: 79.6%
ND: 81.7%
IA: 82.1%




source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ite_population

[Docere]

My guess: Michigan was the most "Yankee" of the midwestern states, and also received a lot of Canadian immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries. German immigration was significant, but its proportion was diluted compared to other midwestern states.

[Steely Dan]

another hunch: detroit was a bit of a late bloomer in the midwest and when its automobile factories were blowing up in the first 3 decades of the 20th century, perhaps it got a much higher share of those scots-irish appalachian/southern white migrants.

this might also correlate with why metro detroit is a bit less catholic than the other legacy cities of the midwest.


also, detroit was getting super-sized right as german immigration began its steep decline.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

another hunch: detroit was a bit of a late bloomer in the midwest and when its automobile factories were blowing up in the first 3 decades of the 20th century, perhaps it got a much higher share of those scots-irish appalachian/southern white migrants.

this might also correlate with why metro detroit is a bit less catholic than the other legacy cities of the midwest.


also, detroit was getting super-sized right as german immigration began its steep decline.

Looking around online, German is the largest single reported ancestry across most of Michigan, but of course there's the Dutch-dominated counties in Western Michigan, and the Finns up in the UP.



Here's a by county map. When you take out the UP and Metro Detroit, most of MI looks pretty similar to IN/IL/OH in terms of German ancestry.

[Docere]

It doesn't surprise me Ohio is more German than Michigan. Michigan's American settlers were mostly Yankees from Upstate NY and New England. Ohio received a lot of Pennsylvanians, many of whom were of German ancestry. Plus Cincinnati was one of the German triangle cities.

[Docere]

So Rhode Island (New England) and Mississippi (Deep South) are the least German states.

[jmecklenborg]

What's weird is that some German food is still regional to the extent that common things in one area of the U.S. are completely unheard of elsewhere.

Brats (bratwurst) and Metts (mettwurst) are common foods in Ohio. You hear radio ads and see billboards for local brat and mett brands.

Go just one state down and people have never even heard the word.

Goetta is an almost exclusive food to the Cincinnati area, as is Mock Turtle Soup, which is a German derivative.

I was eating at McDonald's with some girl in college who was from Santa Cruz, CA and I remember being baffled that she had never head of brats or metts. It had never occurred to me that they were regional foods - I assumed that they were everywhere. I remember going up to the security guard asking him if he had heard of brats or metts and he looked at me like I was a ghost.

[Crawford]

Yeah, West Michigan has a heavy Dutch presence, and is just much more demographically and culturally Protestant than the rest of Michigan.

Also, Michigan has a decent Appalachian white presence, basically in any legacy industrial area (which means most of populated MI). Most working class white areas of Detroit, Flint, Lansing, Jackson, Saginaw have an Appalachian population.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Brats (bratwurst) and Metts (mettwurst) are common foods in Ohio. You hear radio ads and see billboards for local brat and mett brands.

I think Bratwurst would be pretty universally recognized, but the term Brat wouldn't, and no way with Mettwurst. I've never heard Mettwurst referenced in the U.S. and I'm German-born. Are Americans really eating it raw or smoking it?

In the U.S., Bratwurst seems to be less of an overtly ethnic food than a Midwest football/grilling food. My mental imagery is rotund Green Bay superfans grilling Brats and drinking cheap beer.

[Docere]

More Appalachian compared to where though? A lot of Ohio is Appalachian. Cincinnati is both German American and Appalachian in character. I think Akron and Toledo, in northern Ohio, had a lot of Appalachian whites too.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think Bratwurst would be pretty universally recognized, but the term Brat wouldn't,

yeah.

with Johnsonville Foods (out of Sheboygan Falls, WI) distributing its brats nationwide (and even at 4,000 coast-to-coast McD's locations seasonally) for a couple decades now, i think the vast majority of americans are at least aware of what a "bratwurst" is, even if they don't use the midwest verbal shorthand form of "brat".

on the other hand, goetta is totally a food product unique to the cincinnati area. i've never seen/heard of it anywhere else.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by eschaton

.

Interesting that the most “German” counties in PA are also along the most conservative, as far as voting goes

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

on the other hand, goetta is totally a food product unique to the cincinnati area. i've never seen/heard of it anywhere else.

That, and apparently metts/mettwurst.

Kahns (which I thought went out of business for some idiotic reason) sold both brats and metts but don't anymore according to their website? Maybe JTM?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

That, and apparently metts/mettwurst.

while mettwurst is strongly associated with Cincinnati, it is by no means unique to the city the way goetta is.

If I had a hankering for it, I could walk over to my local sausage shop here in Lincoln Square and get some of their house-made mettwurst for dinner tonight. They make all kinds of different German sausages over at Gene's.


But if I wanted some goetta, I'd be shit outta luck.

Or have to learn how to make it for myself.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

while mettwurst is strongly associated with Cincinnati, it is not unique to the city the way goetta is.

If I had a hankering for it, I could walk over to my local sausage shop here in Lincoln Square and get some of their house-made mettwurst for dinner tonight. They make all kinds of different German sausages over at Gene's.

I figured as much. As for making goetta, uh...good luck?

I think you can order Gliers online? I was half-tempted to order it at Camp Washington Chili a few weeks ago to see if I'd hate it less than I did growing up.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

midwest states by 2020 NHW %:

IL: 58.3%

KS: 72.2%
MI: 72.4%
IN: 75.5%
NE: 75.7%
MO: 75.8%
OH: 75.9%
MN: 76.3%
WI: 78.4%
SD: 79.6%
ND: 81.7%
IA: 82.1%

There's also a sizeable Arab and Chaldean population of 250,000 in Michigan that's classified as NHW.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I was eating at McDonald's with some girl in college who was from Santa Cruz, CA and I remember being baffled that she had never head of brats or metts. It had never occurred to me that they were regional foods - I assumed that they were everywhere. I remember going up to the security guard asking him if he had heard of brats or metts and he looked at me like I was a ghost.

That's because she was from Santa Cruz. I don't even think they have German restaurants there.

But hey, my freshman year in college, I nearly spit my diet Coke out when I heard another freshman say "do quesadillas have cheese in them?" And he pronounced it "kweh-suh-dillas."

[rbehs]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Not much here in NorCal as far as I can tell.

Just a handful of restaurants if you’re really looking for it. Nothing obvious like a Chinatown or Japantown or North Beach or Little Manila or a Vietnam town or plazas/strips full of Indian or Korean restaurants.

The lower foothills of East Oakland had a notable German presence, which is pretty much gone now. There is the Altenheim on MacArthur, and the German Lutheran Seminary for the West Coast was next to Mills College (where Concordia Park is now), before moving to Irvine. The only lingering reminder of that heritage is the somewhat weak Oktoberfest that the Dimond District holds every year.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah.

with Johnsonville Foods (out of Sheboygan Falls, WI) distributing its brats nationwide (and even at 4,000 coast-to-coast McD's locations seasonally) for a couple decades now, i think the vast majority of americans are at least aware of what a "bratwurst" is, even if they don't use the midwest verbal shorthand form of "brat".

on the other hand, goetta is totally a food product unique to the cincinnati area. i've never seen/heard of it anywhere else.

brats are universal tail gate snacks, but nobody knows mettwurst in the rest of ohio. and in cleveland we go hard for the johnny boys.