PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[mcgrath618]

The upper middle and upper classes pay for the social policies that Mrs Brooks likes to propose, and getting rid of the abatement would only serve to drive them out.

A city is a balancing act. Favor the upper class too much, and you end up like San Fran with exorbitant rents and human feces everywhere. Favor the lower class too much, and you end up like Detroit with massive blight and human feces everywhere.

[iamrobk]

The takeaway, IMO, is we need to handle more of these policy decisions at the Federal level to have more nationwide uniformity.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

The takeaway, IMO, is we need to handle more of these policy decisions at the Federal level to have more nationwide uniformity.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Without any federal restrictions it has been a 40 year race to the bottom as cities keep trying to out "tax cut" each other.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I imagine a lot of people will continue to reside in California and accept higher taxes there because California is obviously a very desirable place for multiple reasons(climate, natural beauty, culture, etc). But could Pennsylvania do that, its harder to know.

I mean, I'm biased growing up here, but in this case I would say yes. Pennsylvania is not subjected to earthquakes or landslides unlike California, and the winters are less extreme than NY and Boston, and the summers are less brutal than DC or the south, and Philly is inland enough to not be affected significantly by hurricanes. Though the west coast is more pleasant, Philly is probably in the best location as far as the east coast goes. On top of that Pennsylvania does have beautiful nature, there are lots of beautiful fields and gentle mountains and lakes, and it isn't far from the ocean either

[TK2001]

Philadelphia skyline by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

[justremember]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Another dumb bill proposed in Philly that would eliminate the Tax Abatement, AND would levy taxes on investments, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.

It may not be the right decision, but I don't think "dumb" is the right description. There's legitimate arguments on both sides of the abatement issue. People against the abatement aren't dumb, they're genuinely concerned that we have a policy that perpetuates and deepens inequality. (And, conversely, pro-abatement people are concerned abolishing it could hurt the city's economy long term, also a legitimate concern)

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The upper middle and upper classes pay for the social policies that Mrs Brooks likes to propose, and getting rid of the abatement would only serve to drive them out.

A city is a balancing act. Favor the upper class too much, and you end up like San Fran with exorbitant rents and human feces everywhere. Favor the lower class too much, and you end up like Detroit with massive blight and human feces everywhere.

90% of middle and upper class people do not have a tax abatement. It wouldn't affect most people. I certainly don't benefit from the tax abatement although I like seeing new buildings go up.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Another dumb bill proposed in Philly that would eliminate the Tax Abatement, AND would levy taxes on investments, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.

How unbelievably stupid do these people have to be? LOL. Right back to let's tax the wealthy and force them out of the city.

Philly should be focusing on LOWERING certain taxes. Removing or greatly reducing the wage tax, etc. Nothing hurts the poor more than the wage tax. Lowering some business taxes to draw in companies and jobs, etc.

The wage tax will never be drastically lowered, its the largest chunk of revenue. Lets not forget the state wage tax is 3% and no one ever talks about cutting that levy. Only the federal gov has the ability to cut taxes without actually worrying about paying for stuff- that's because they borrow the money needed to make ends meet. Local and state government cannot do that so you can't simply slash a tax with no plan as to how to balance the books.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The wage tax will never be drastically lowered, its the largest chunk of revenue. Lets not forget the state wage tax is 3% and no one ever talks about cutting that levy. Only the federal gov has the ability to cut taxes without actually worrying about paying for stuff- that's because they borrow the money needed to make ends meet. Local and state government cannot do that so you can't simply slash a tax with no plan as to how to balance the books.

The basket of taxes the city uses to collect revenue could be changed or evolved over time.

Kenney had that opportunity when he nearly doubled property taxes over the course of his tenure thus far. He could have diverted some of that revenue to further decrease business and/or wage taxes but instead he increased taxes and just spent it all.

Also, while I agree the wage tax will never completely go away, I think there is a tipping point at which it probably drives business away and point below which people would perceive it to be reasonable and acknowledge that cities by nature have additional costs that need to be covered (ex transportation).

For me, that "feels" like it would be around 2.5 %. Until now, every incremental cut that has been made to the wage tax has been followed by a year in increased wage tax revenues (perhaps with the exception of times during a recession). That in and of itself should show this joke mayor that they can pay for themselves.

Other Philly taxes are just nuissance taxes. The "business priviledge" tax is ironic for sure.

[christof]

So what happens if remote working becomes the norm moving forward?

Would folks want to work in the city when they can do so at home, in the suburbs? Time and money will be saved when it comes to a commute. And you will not have a pay the wage tax?

Would folks living in the city move out to the suburbs if they can work from home substantially more than before? Two major reasons why folks were living in the city were the culture and the restaurants. Both are going to see a drastic decline because of the virus in the short run.

We could be on a verge of a great migration within the United States that defines the rest of the century domestically. I don't think anyone at this time can do more than just guess how this is going to play out.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by christof

So what happens if remote working becomes the norm moving forward?

Would folks want to work in the city when they can do so at home, in the suburbs? Time and money will be saved when it comes to a commute. And you will not have a pay the wage tax?

Would folks living in the city move out to the suburbs if they can work from home substantially more than before? Two major reasons why folks were living in the city were the culture and the restaurants. Both are going to see a drastic decline because of the virus in the short run.

We could be on a verge of a great migration within the United States that defines the rest of the century domestically. I don't think anyone at this time can do more than just guess how this is going to play out.

If anything this could actually help the city given how many people reverse commute to Conshohocken, King of Prussia etc. People generally live here for social and lifestyle reasons more than anything.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by christof

So what happens if remote working becomes the norm moving forward?

Would folks want to work in the city when they can do so at home, in the suburbs? Time and money will be saved when it comes to a commute. And you will not have a pay the wage tax?

Would folks living in the city move out to the suburbs if they can work from home substantially more than before? Two major reasons why folks were living in the city were the culture and the restaurants. Both are going to see a drastic decline because of the virus in the short run.

We could be on a verge of a great migration within the United States that defines the rest of the century domestically. I don't think anyone at this time can do more than just guess how this is going to play out.

I think empty nesters, married folks without kids, singles, etc will continue to live in the city despite COVID-19. It is true that a big draw for these people are the city living dynamics such as great restaurants, museums, shopping, etc, and COVID-19 has put a big damper on them. And, if you are single, it has basically kill your social and dating life out in the bar and restaurant scene. Nonetheless, there's hope. Once more drug treatments and vaccines are developed, approved, and come online, we will get back to things that closely resemble what it was before the pandemic.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Larry King

If anything this could actually help the city given how many people reverse commute to Conshohocken, King of Prussia etc. People generally live here for social and lifestyle reasons more than anything.

Yeah, Christof's point definitely swings both ways as the city only accounts for something like 30% of the region's total jobs and anyone who has braved the Schuylkill West Bound around 8a know this. I can live in Wash Square West and NOT commute 50min to a terribly dull suburban office park in Blue Bell? Sure!

It's still going to be a matter of preference - a lifestyle choice - not that different than it is now.

Also, as has been discussed a million times - office space isn't going away - it's just going to be different. More flexible, as it should be. Believe it or not, there are still a ton of businesses that operate better in an office environment - whether it's driving collaboration or simply providing a secluded place to concentrate. And working from home - especially those of us with kids - hasn't been that easy.

My center city office opened last Monday - and the only people who've come into it have been suburbanites. Not out of need, but more out of "get me the f*&k out of my backyard and my kids" for like 6 hours.

[DudeGuy]

Not sure if this is quite a highrise, but posting anyway. From the Cecil Baker instagram account:

This past Friday final approval was achieved at the Philadelphia Historical Commission for our 19 story overbuild of the historic Freeman's Auction House. We work anew with Astoban Investments; terrific Clients!

An article from two years ago:
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20190619.html

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The basket of taxes the city uses to collect revenue could be changed or evolved over time.

Kenney had that opportunity when he nearly doubled property taxes over the course of his tenure thus far. He could have diverted some of that revenue to further decrease business and/or wage taxes but instead he increased taxes and just spent it all.

Also, while I agree the wage tax will never completely go away, I think there is a tipping point at which it probably drives business away and point below which people would perceive it to be reasonable and acknowledge that cities by nature have additional costs that need to be covered (ex transportation).

For me, that "feels" like it would be around 2.5 %. Until now, every incremental cut that has been made to the wage tax has been followed by a year in increased wage tax revenues (perhaps with the exception of times during a recession). That in and of itself should show this joke mayor that they can pay for themselves.

Other Philly taxes are just nuissance taxes. The "business priviledge" tax is ironic for sure.

I think the wage tax was created in the 20s or 30s. Its not exactly a Kenney invention or a "new" issue. Its been going down slowly for most of the last 25 years. Drastic cuts are not going to happen without replacement revenue. If Philly had more jobs than at any point since early 90s pre-covid one could argue the wage tax isn't exactly a major factor in whether or not job growth occurs.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I think empty nesters, married folks without kids, singles, etc will continue to live in the city despite COVID-19. It is true that a big draw for these people are the city living dynamics such as great restaurants, museums, shopping, etc, and COVID-19 has put a big damper on them. And, if you are single, it has basically kill your social and dating life out in the bar and restaurant scene. Nonetheless, there's hope. Once more drug treatments and vaccines are developed, approved, and come online, we will get back to things that closely resemble what it was before the pandemic.

I think teleworking helps the City's prospects from a population growth standpoint. If more people can work in teh burbs but not commute to the burbs they will be more inclined to make their home in the city, especially if they don't have kids. Some people move out ONLY because they want to be closer to their suburban job.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by DudeGuy

Not sure if this is quite a highrise, but posting anyway. From the Cecil Baker instagram account:



An article from two years ago:
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20190619.html

Thanks for posting! This looks like a great project. This does qualify as a highrise, and the thread for it is here:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...53#post8953053

[summersm343]

Jefferson CEO reveals plans to build Center City facility 'not like anything that exists today'

Can anyone read this? It's a locked article, but looks like a good one:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel..._news_headline

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by summersm343

How unbelievably stupid do these people have to be? LOL.

Your moderator, ladies and gentlemen.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Your moderator, ladies and gentlemen.

Sooo please explain to me why you think eliminating the tax abatement AND levying taxes on investments, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc. is a good idea? I'll wait...