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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 6:04 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post

Foreign Cinema! Just had a fabulous meal there. The interior courtyard is a great space.

LA is attempting to better regulate these 'dining shacks' and the restaurant industry just about revolted. I'm torn, because I do think that there should be more outdoor dining, as it creates a more lively public realm and boosts capacity for restaurants. But I also have experienced many instances where restaurants have taken over the entire sidewalk, and act as if it's their space, and you're intruding if you walk through during business hours. I've seen many restaurants obstructing sidewalk access with tables or heat lamps. They have a sense of entitlement to the space, but the primary purpose of the sidewalk is to provide space for people to walk. There needs to be a balance.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 6:20 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Why the need for the semi-enclosed boxes though? Just for the weather? If its cold and rainy, it wont be pleasant inside those boxes either and I'd rather eat inside in that case. If the weather is nice, who wants to be in a box?

Why not do it like this? These used to be parking spaces, now its outdoor eating space, but no claustrophobic little box:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Me...2Fg%2F1tgk1fnm

or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7904...7i16384!8i8192


By the way, which is a more pleasant street experience?
This: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
Or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 6:41 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Why the need for the semi-enclosed boxes though? Just for the weather? If its cold and rainy, it wont be pleasant inside those boxes either and I'd rather eat inside in that case. If the weather is nice, who wants to be in a box?
Yeah, partially enclosing keeps them useful much longer parts of the year in the north. A lot of them have heating lamps which would be useless without partial enclosure.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 6:54 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
But I also have experienced many instances where restaurants have taken over the entire sidewalk, and act as if it's their space, and you're intruding if you walk through during business hours. I've seen many restaurants obstructing sidewalk access with tables or heat lamps. They have a sense of entitlement to the space, but the primary purpose of the sidewalk is to provide space for people to walk. There needs to be a balance.
I haven't noticed that in NYC. The bars and restaurants do seem generally respectful that they are on public space.

One way outdoor dining does get weird though is with bike lanes on avenues in Manhattan. The bike lanes are mostly curbside now so bikes continuously snake through between the dining sheds and curbs. Waitstaff has to continually walk back and forth across the lanes to serve people, which was pretty dangerous in the beginning but it does seem like everybody has gotten used to it now. Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qixjSTbWwUHc9b6N7
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 7:06 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I haven't noticed that in NYC. The bars and restaurants do seem generally respectful that they are on public space.

One way outdoor dining does get weird though is with bike lanes on avenues in Manhattan. The bike lanes are mostly curbside now so bikes continuously snake through between the dining sheds and curbs. Waitstaff has to continually walk back and forth across the lanes to serve people, which was pretty dangerous in the beginning but it does seem like everybody has gotten used to it now. Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/qixjSTbWwUHc9b6N7
yeah its ok in the daytime now that people are used to it, but the thing is, and it goes back to deblaz and his idiotic decision to allow motorized bikes without mandating they made some kind of sound -- so at night when its busy you have a lot of ninja delivery guys silently zipping thru those unexpectedly. on their behalf, often they do ride around them on the street when its busy, but you can't count on it.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 8:38 PM
badrunner badrunner is offline
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Why the need for the semi-enclosed boxes though? Just for the weather? If its cold and rainy, it wont be pleasant inside those boxes either and I'd rather eat inside in that case. If the weather is nice, who wants to be in a box?

Why not do it like this? These used to be parking spaces, now its outdoor eating space, but no claustrophobic little box:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Me...2Fg%2F1tgk1fnm

or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7904...7i16384!8i8192


By the way, which is a more pleasant street experience?
This: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
Or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
I agree those little boxes look silly. They just work better in fair-weather cities. The best examples look like they've always been there: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1371...7i16384!8i8192
It helps if the existing streetscape is strong, with wide sidewalks, street trees, slow traffic speeds. It should be a nice relaxing experience for the diners. Too often it's not.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 9:05 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, partially enclosing keeps them useful much longer parts of the year in the north. A lot of them have heating lamps which would be useless without partial enclosure.
When the weather is cold, I would rather just be inside than outside in a little box with a heat lamp. Maybe the solution is to make them seasonal? Parking places in the winter, outdoor dining in the warmer months with no box needed?
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2023, 9:13 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
When the weather is cold, I would rather just be inside than outside in a little box with a heat lamp. Maybe the solution is to make them seasonal? Parking places in the winter, outdoor dining in the warmer months with no box needed?
A lot of people still use them in the winter. It also gives the restaurants more seating capacity.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2023, 3:46 AM
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Double L Double L is offline
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If the business wants to do it, you let them do it. There is no need for a sweeping government mandate.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2023, 5:25 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
If the business wants to do it, you let them do it. There is no need for a sweeping government mandate.
Well they're using street parking spaces, which don't belong to the business. So it's a little more complicated than that...
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2023, 4:31 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Anecdotal, but I've noticed some bars get rid of their street sheds recently. Restaurants seem more reluctant to give them up so far.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2023, 10:00 AM
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Double L Double L is offline
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I was just in downtown Houston and Houston has set up several dining shacks up and down Main Street, not just in front of the Finn Hall.



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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2023, 5:04 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
When the weather is cold, I would rather just be inside than outside in a little box with a heat lamp. Maybe the solution is to make them seasonal? Parking places in the winter, outdoor dining in the warmer months with no box needed?
The nicest ones costs tens of thousands of dollars. Not gonna happen.

We have many in Philly. The nicest ones are really really nice. Provide an experience in and of themselves. Many are just ordinary and not weathering well.

Good example:
https://www.google.com/search?q=parc...uL0EY8ld8meG5M

In Philly we can eat outside comfortably until early November and starting again in early March. The off season is really only 4 months.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2023, 7:41 PM
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JManc JManc is online now
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That second (Houston) pic looks like the Flying Saucer. The Delerium umbrellas give it away.

They should just shut down Main altogether.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2023, 8:17 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Why the need for the semi-enclosed boxes though? Just for the weather? If its cold and rainy, it wont be pleasant inside those boxes either and I'd rather eat inside in that case. If the weather is nice, who wants to be in a box?

Why not do it like this? These used to be parking spaces, now its outdoor eating space, but no claustrophobic little box:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Me...2Fg%2F1tgk1fnm

or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7904...7i16384!8i8192


By the way, which is a more pleasant street experience?
This: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
Or this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7873...7i16384!8i8192
They may look nice in the picture, but are actually really hard to eat at because of the wind (even if the weather is nice). I prefer the walled ones, since the wind is not an issue. Much more practical.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2023, 8:21 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The dining sheds should stay year-round, but there should be strict requirements around their upkeep.
I think if the restaurants knew they can have them legally permanently and not in bureaucratic limbo, a lot of them would be upgraded.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2023, 8:35 PM
homebucket homebucket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double L View Post
I was just in downtown Houston and Houston has set up several dining shacks up and down Main Street, not just in front of the Finn Hall.
Even though I know it's not going to hit anyone, it must be unsettling to be sitting and eating so close to a train. I never like having my back turned to a train, or car for that matter.
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