City Murder Rates

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by pip

Ah too many Whites in Boston
Too many Asians in San Francisco
Too many Latinos in LA
Too many Blacks in Atlanta

Sounds like the issue is you.

What you posted initially is an example of what I meant by people going by hearsay and ignorance. You thought the Patriot Front walk in Boston was Boston people. It is a group that travel around the country.

And I could post an article from every city in the nation about racism.

Adios!

I don't have any issues with Boston. It's a beautiful and safe place like you say. I just don't think it's as diverse as you're making it out to be. The stats (see above) don't lie.

[austlar1]

[QUOTE=homebucket;9669257]I've seen that diversity index before but in terms of non-Hispanic white population it's still far higher than any other major metro.

And that, for some reason, is an indication of a city's success or lack thereof? I don't get it.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Is Boston America’s Most Racist City? Ask a Black Bostonian for Once
Black sports stars and comics from out of town often argue that the Hub is America’s most racist city. Many white residents disagree. But guess whose perspective almost no one is listening to? Black Bostonians'.

Many white locals like to hide the racism that exists here behind the image of being a liberal and progressive city with a history full of abolitionists, revolutionaries, and freedom fighters.

So if that doesn't do enough to resolve the issue, what will?

Regardless, I keep reading various ppl slamming certain other cities in the US...LA, for one...for being full of grime, crime & homelessness. Most cities on this side of the Atlantic (other side too: london, paris, berlin, amsterdam, etc) are progressive & becoming more & more that way. So does that mean everyone will or won't follow in the footsteps of a boston, LA, san francisco, seattle, atlanta, chicago, dallas, NYC?

[edale]

I just spent a lovely weekend in Boston and it certainly felt very diverse to me. Maybe its suburbs are whiter than other cities, but the core city felt very diverse.

San Francisco feels like the whitest major city to me. Feels much less diverse than Boston, imo. Yes there is a large Asian community, but almost no Black people, and only a small Hispanic presence contained to just a couple neighborhoods. SF is much less diverse than the Bay Area as a whole, especially the East Bay. Lack of diversity is an odd claim for someone from SF to lob at Boston.

[Steely Dan]

^ FWIW, Boston city proper (44.6%) is a little bit more NHW than SF city proper (39.1%).

[homebucket]

The SF MSA is also at 36.2% NHW so yes, certainly SF proper is not as diverse as the rest of the Bay Area, but it's only a 3% difference. I'm guessing it's a similar effect to what we see in Manhattan vs the rest of NYC, where there's a higher % of NHW in Manhattan compared to the other boroughs. The Boston metro is at 66.6% NHW, so that's probably where you'll notice the lack of diversity more.

I've never heard anyone say that SF feels less diverse than Boston. edale, do you spend most of your time in the Marina District when you're in SF?

[edale]

Originally Posted by homebucket

The SF MSA is also at 36.2% NHW so yes, certainly SF proper is not as diverse as the rest of the Bay Area, but it's only a 3% difference. I'm guessing it's a similar effect to what we see in Manhattan vs the rest of NYC, where there's a higher % of NHW in Manhattan compared to the other boroughs. The Boston metro is at 66.6% NHW, so that's probably where you'll notice the lack of diversity more.

I've never heard anyone say that SF feels less diverse than Boston. edale, do you spend most of your time in the Marina District when you're in SF?

Not the Marina, but I do generally hangout in the northern half/third of the city. It feels very generically white-- not white ethnic like much of Boston. The almost total lack of Black people is very palpable in SF, and has always stuck out to me on visits to SF. When my friends from SF come to visit me in LA, they often remark how much more diverse it feels here.

Don't get me wrong, I love SF just like I love Boston. I think they're both top 5 American cities. And both are quite safe for US standards, despite whatever fear mongering Fox News tries to spout about SF. Given the extreme wealth of SF and the Bay Area, it just feels more homogenous than other cities, including Boston, imo.

Edit: Just looked up the numbers for SF and Boston. Boston is 24% Black, SF is 5%. Boston is 19% Hispanic, SF is 15%. Boston is 7% mixed race, SF is 4%. SF has a huge Asian community (37%) while Boston is 'only' 10% Asian, but I'd say Boston is more diverse based on these numbers, even if their NHW numbers are about the same.

[homebucket]

Oakland is at 52, down from 64 (-18.8%)

https://oaklandmofo.com/blog/oakland...ount-is-rising

[homebucket]

San Jose is at 12, down from 17. (-29.4%)

https://www.sjpd.org/records/crime-s...istics-monthly

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by edale

When my friends from SF come to visit me in LA, they often remark how much more diverse it feels here.

Boston is 24% Black, SF is 5%. Boston is 19% Hispanic, SF is 15%. Boston is 7% mixed race, SF is 4%. SF has a huge Asian community (37%) while Boston is 'only' 10% Asian, but I'd say Boston is more diverse based on these numbers, even if their NHW numbers are about the same.

That 24% is much larger than I assumed it was. It refutes ppl who think boston doesn't have a large black population. Northeastern cities compared with western ones attracted a larger pool of black ppl during the mass migration out of the south during the 1940s-1960s.

I think segregation, however, may be more noticeable in boston than it otherwise would be because of the way that class-income, gentrification & devlpt patterns affect an area, including its economy & issues like crime rates. Cities like boston & SF also have a large share of college intellectual types, so the way they live & rate things propels all types of both gentrification & self segregation.

As for LA, there may be a dynamic due to its climate & hollywoodish cultural history...& history of more middle class communities...that affects its quality of diversity.

[Smuttynose1]

Originally Posted by citywatch

That 24% is much larger than I assumed it was. It refutes ppl who think boston doesn't have a large black population. Northeastern cities compared with western ones attracted a larger pool of black ppl during the mass migration out of the south during the 1940s-1960s.

Gentrification has dented Boston's black population in recent years. It's down to about 19% in the 2020 Census. The Asian and Latino communities have continued to grow though as has the mixed-race count.

Census shows decline in Hub Blacks
Drop comes as Mass. towns see increase
https://www.baystatebanner.com/2021/...in-hub-blacks/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Smuttynose1

Gentrification has dented Boston's black population in recent years. It's down to about 19% in the 2020 Census. The Asian and Latino communities have continued to grow though as has the mixed-race count.

Yeah, like most other major northern cities, black flight is now also a thing for Boston city proper.

In fact I think Boston might be the first major city in the north to have now fallen back below 20% NH-black.

I'm not including Minneapolis here because I don't think it has ever been above that 20% threshold (though it's currently at 18.9%).

[Crawford]

Boston has a small black population, and is much less diverse than SF. SF also has a small black population, but the Asian and Latino % are much larger. Boston is very white for major U.S. metro standards.

And I don't understand the point of comparing city propers. Has no particular relevance. The people walking around downtown Boston aren't required to be city residents, and you can't really gauge relative overall diversity by just looking at people on the street.

That said, Boston has some diversity. It has a fairly large immigrant population, and its white population is overtly ethnic, and not at all standard Protestant American. Heavy Irish, Italian and Portuguese populations.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Boston has a small black population, and is much less diverse than SF. SF also has a small black population, but the Asian and Latino % are much larger. Boston is very white for major U.S. metro standards.

And I don't understand the point of comparing city propers. Has no particular relevance. The people walking around downtown Boston aren't required to be city residents, and you can't really gauge relative overall diversity by just looking at people on the street.

That said, Boston has some diversity. It has a fairly large immigrant population, and its white population is overtly ethnic, and not at all standard Protestant American. Heavy Irish, Italian and Portuguese populations.

Boston's small black population represents almost 5x larger a share of the overall city population than San Francisco's. It also has a larger Hispanic share than SF. I included the numbers from the 2021 estimates just a few posts up thread. You can see for yourself here

Looking at city population absolutely is relevant, especially when talking about a multi-nodal region like SF. SF city is essentially white and Asian, with small representation of other groups. In my experience, those are basically the people you see in the city, for the most part. The average visitor to SF isn't going to see the significant diversity of Vallejo, Richmond, and Oakland. SF has gentrified itself into a city dominated by two ethnic groups (most of whom are wealthy), which is not how I would define diversity. Boston seems to have retained more diversity in the city, which, as a visitor, I could clearly observe.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

Boston's small black population represents almost 5x larger a share of the overall city population than San Francisco's.

3.7x, not 5.

Boston city: 19.1% NH-black

San Francisco city: 5.2% NH-black

[Crawford]

City proper is irrelevant. City boundaries are arbitrary. Someone living in Cambridge, MA doesn't contribute less to Boston-area diversity than someone living in Roslindale, just bc it happens to be a distant wedge of city proper.

Bay Area has a very small NHW population for U.S. metropolitan standards, and Boston has an unusually large NHW population, so SF, by most definitions of diversity, is much more diverse.

[citywatch]

I've been watching vids of expats or americans traveling or studying abroad & the US right now really isn't presenting itself very well. Not just crime rates but also homelessness, poor healthcare, bad food products, poor transportation, political divisiveness, income disparity, etc, are making America look like...well...the so called Third world.

This and the other subj about the climate of cities are interesting me in 2022. I don't know how much of both the good & bad news is hype, dark reality, egos-jealousy, normal up & down cycles or the games that ppl love to play on social media.

I saw an old Time magazine article from the 1979s about american cities...it described tourists visiting places throughout the country. One of the travelers from europe described NYC as a great has been. Look at what happened to that city over 30 yrs later. Now the cycle is again tilting downward. I just don't want the US's down cycle to go on for way too long.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

3.7x, not 5.

Boston city: 19.1% NH-black

San Francisco city: 5.2% NH-black

Boston 24.2% Black

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bo...ymassachusetts

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

City proper is irrelevant. City boundaries are arbitrary. Someone living in Cambridge, MA doesn't contribute less to Boston-area diversity than someone living in Roslindale, just bc it happens to be a distant wedge of city proper.

Bay Area has a very small NHW population for U.S. metropolitan standards, and Boston has an unusually large NHW population, so SF, by most definitions of diversity, is much more diverse.

So for you, diversity = few white people. I guess Detroit is super diverse since it's only 14% white?

Agree to disagree on city proper. SF and Boston city propers are nearly the exact same size. It's fair to compare them, and I already explained why looking at city proper is relevant.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

Boston 24.2% Black

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bo...ymassachusetts

Census estimates are pure garbage.

According to census 2020, Boston city proper is now 19.1% NH-black, and SF city proper is now 5.2% NH-black.