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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 6:31 PM
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The not so Great Canadian White Elephant Thread

Show us your city's boondoggles.

My hometown of Montreal is no slouch. There is the famously expensive and chronically empty Olympic Stadium (Aka, the Big O, aka the Big Owe).

But then there is Mirabel International Airport.

The insane distance plus a lack of direct/train access why the latter airport ended up as Canada's biggest ever White Elephant.

Downtown Montreal to Montreal Pierre Elliot Trudeau International Airport: 11 miles (17.7 kms)
Downtown Montreal to Montreal Mirabel International Airport: 34.8 miles (!!) (56 kms)

It was the largest airport in the world at the time it was opened.




wikipedia

Quote:
Montréal–Mirabel International Airport opened for business on October 4, 1975, in time for the 1976 Summer Olympics. In the rush to get the airport open in time for the Olympics, it was decided to transfer flights to Mirabel in two stages. International flights were transferred immediately, while domestic and US flights would continue to be served by Dorval airport until 1982.

The federal government predicted that Dorval would be completely saturated by 1985 as part of its justification for building Mirabel. They also projected that 20 million passengers would be passing through Montreal's airports annually, with 17 million of those through Mirabel. However, three factors dramatically reduced the amount of projected air traffic into Dorval.

After 1976, Mirabel and Dorval began to decline in importance because of the increasing use in the 1980s of longer-range jets that did not need to refuel in Montreal before crossing the Atlantic; the use of longer-range aircraft was made more attractive by national energy policies that provided Montreal refineries with feedstock at prices substantially below world prices, starting in 1975 and ending in the 1980s with the drop in world oil prices.

In addition, the simultaneous operation of Mirabel (international flights) and Dorval (continental flights) (see below) made Montreal less attractive to international airlines. A European passenger who wanted to travel to another destination in Canada or fly to the United States had to take an hour-long bus ride from Mirabel to Dorval. The complicated transfer process put Montreal at a significant disadvantage. The planned but unbuilt highways and incomplete train routes compounded the problem. The international airlines responded by shifting their routes to Toronto. One of the obstacles of the planned transfer from Dorval to Mirabel was Air Canada's desire to keep flights in Dorval (and its proximity with AVEOS workshops) and the connections in Pearson Airport.[12]

By 1991, Mirabel and Dorval were handling only a total of 8 million passengers and 112,000 tons of cargo annually, while Toronto was handling 18.5 million passengers and 312,000 tons of cargo. Mirabel alone never managed to exceed 3 million passengers per year in its existence as a passenger airport. It soon became apparent that Montreal did not need a second airport.[13][14]
The control tower, Mirabel Airport

To ensure Mirabel's survival, all international flights for Montreal were banned from Dorval from 1975 to 1997. However, public pressure in support of Dorval prevented its planned closure. As a result, Dorval's continued existence made Mirabel comparatively expensive and unattractive to airlines and travellers alike. While Dorval was only 20 minutes away from the city core, it took 50 minutes to get to Mirabel even in ideal traffic conditions. Passengers who used Montreal in transit had to take long bus rides for connections from domestic to international flights, and Montrealers grew to resent Mirabel as they were forced to travel far out of town for international flights.

Many international airlines, faced with the stark economic reality of operating two Canadian points of entry, opted to bypass Montreal altogether by landing instead in Toronto with its better domestic and American connections. The simultaneous operating of both Montreal airports resulted in Dorval being overtaken in traffic first by Toronto, then Vancouver and finally relegated to fourth by Calgary, as international airlines were slow to return to Dorval after it resumed handling international flights in 1997. Only Air Transat held out at Mirabel until the very end, operating the last commercial flight which departed to Paris on October 31, 2004.[15]

Over time, the decreasing passenger flights began to take a toll on businesses within Mirabel. Particularly notable was the 354-room Chateau Aeroport-Mirabel hotel adjacent to the terminal, which was forced to shut down in 2002 after 25 years of operation.
wikipedia

The vision:


The end of the line:

Airport history



Quote:
Olympic Stadium[1] (French: Stade olympique) is a multi-purpose stadium in Montreal, Canada, located at Olympic Park in the Hochelaga-Maisonneuve district of the city. Built in the mid-1970s as the main venue for the 1976 Summer Olympics, it is nicknamed "The Big O", a reference to both its name and to the doughnut-shape of the permanent component of the stadium's roof. It is also disparagingly referred to as "The Big Owe" in reference to the high cost to the city of its construction and of hosting the 1976 Olympics as a whole.[6] The tower standing next to the stadium, the Montreal Tower, is the tallest inclined tower in the world with an angle elevation of 45 degrees.

The stadium is the largest by seating capacity in Canada. After the Olympics, artificial turf was installed and it became the home of Montreal's professional baseball and football teams. The Montreal Alouettes of the CFL returned to their previous home of Molson Stadium in 1998 for regular season games, but continued to use Olympic Stadium for playoff and Grey Cup games until 2012. Following the 2004 baseball season, the Expos relocated to Washington, D.C., to become the Washington Nationals. The stadium currently serves as a multipurpose facility for special events (e.g. concerts, trade shows) with a permanent seating capacity of 56,040.[1] The capacity is expandable with temporary seating. CF Montréal (formerly known as Montreal Impact) of Major League Soccer (MLS) has used the venue when demand for tickets justifies the large capacity or when the weather restricts outdoor play at nearby Saputo Stadium in the spring months.

The stadium has not had a main tenant since the Expos left in 2004. Despite decades of use, the stadium's history of numerous structural and financial problems has largely branded it a white elephant.
wikipedia

Show us your city's Mirabels and Big Owes.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Toronto's is the Sheppard subway - some stations average as little as 2,500 passengers a day.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ning-1.5141013
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 7:00 PM
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Hamilton's isn't a white elephant so much as it is wasted, fallow land as a result of a failed stadium plan. in the 2000's Hamilton City Council planned for a new CFL stadium closer to downtown and as a result purchased 4 city blocks and demolished them, before later deciding to rebuild a new stadium in the same location as the existing one in the east end of the city.

The land still sits empty nearly a decade after the new stadium's completion:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.26673.../data=!3m1!1e3

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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 7:10 PM
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I never passed through it, but I always found Mirabel very fascinating. Perhaps the most over the top "think big" project in a country that is seldom prone to thinking big when it comes to infrastructure.

I wonder if the plan might ever be resurrected? It's not impossible to imagine Montreal's airport traffic someday outgrowing Dorval. Although I guess a lot of the land surrounding Mirabel was sold off so the original vision couldn't be realized without jumping through all of those nasty expropriation hoops all over again.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 7:15 PM
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The big thing they didn't realize in Montreal was that by shifting the airport from Dorval to Mirabel they would instantly make Montreal 1.5 degrees colder, rendering it an unlivable hellhole, and drop it back several places in the SSP freeze list competition. Maybe this is why they pulled the plug.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 7:50 PM
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Mirabel will win this thread for sure. Imagine spending the money to build a major international airport only to abandon it a generation later?

Some other Toronto-area white elephants, at least in my opinion:

1. Bloomington GO train station:



Source

$82 million was spent to build an enormous GO train station complete with a multistory parkade at the end of the little-used Richmond Hill line. That line only sees 4 trains out in the morning, and 4 trains returning in the evening, and it's never going to become a frequent transit line because it's either sharing tracks with CN's mainline or it takes a very twisty and slow path through the Don River valley that serves absolutely no trip generators. The station itself sits in an undevelopable moraine, so it'll never be a good spot for TOD.

The thinking behind this station was that it was near highway 404 and it would be a park-and-ride station for commuters coming in from further away but, if all they wanted was a park-and-ride, they didn't have to build such an elaborate station.

2. Highway 407 subway station.



Source

Same as above. A really expensive subway station that almost feels like a small airport terminal, that sits in a very undesirable spot - jammed between a cemetery, two highways and a freight rail line. It can't support any new developments and it has limited use as a park and ride.


3. Ontario Place


Source: wikipedia

I think that the Ontario government probably had Montreal envy (specifically for Expo 67 and the Olympics in '76) when they built this in the early 70s. They probably thought that they could recreate that "world's fair" atmosphere without having the actual event.

It's abandoned now and plans to do something with it come and go, but when I was a kid it was this weird, government-run amusement park with Ontario-themed rides and educational content. The park was too lame for kids to really want to go to - it was the kind of place that schools took you to on a field trip. It had a reasonably fun water park, though.

The cool-looking pavilions on stilts in the water (see above) were fun to explore, but even by the early 90s, about 15 years after it opened, they were comically underused. I remember my parents took me to a "Legomania" exhibit in one of those pods, and we had to pass through three other pods that were just sitting empty with chairs stacked in a corner and a musty-smelling carpet.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 7:59 PM
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I will need to think about Victoria. However up island in Nanaimo there is a cruise ship terminal that rarely sees cruise ships.

Bountiful building:
https://www.cparch.ca/nanaimo-cruise-ship-terminal

Here is the location:
https://goo.gl/maps/n7nXyqU7DYqjvhdu9

Cost $24Million to build starting back in 2011.

Today it is used as a heli-port by Helijet for a few flights a day to Vancouver.

However large cruise ships don't regularly stop in Nanaimo, not certain why it is an interesting city to visit.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 8:03 PM
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Ontario Place is kind of interesting, Toronto was a common vacation destination for me and my friends in the 80s and 90s, but I don't remember Ontario Place ever coming up. I never went there once myself. It was always CN Tower, Hockey Hall of Fame, a Blue Jays game, Canada's Wonderland, Eaton Centre, etc. but Ontario Place was never on our radars.

That building in the picture sure looks like it has that Expo/World's Fair vibe. I'd love to go check it out myself next time I'm there. ha.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 8:05 PM
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Every time I drive by Mirabel I envision, 'World's largest go-kart track'.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 8:09 PM
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For Winnipeg, the all-time white elephant has to be Portage Place mall. It was developed by the three levels of Government working in partnership with Cadillac Fairview. It is several square blocks long and includes a shopping mall with offices above, several highrise apartments out back, and a massive underground parking garage. There are pad development sites on either end of the mall, but they were never developed.

It was devised in the 80s as a way to rejuvenate Portage Avenue which had fallen on hard times. Portage Place effectively connected the massive Eaton's and Hudson's Bay department stores on Portage Avenue. It opened in 1987 but it never thrived, it started losing tenants quickly. After Eaton's closed in 1999 it really declined fast and now it is a mostly dead mall as COVID killed whatever life it still had remaining. The problem is the place is getting old and in need of major refurbishment, but no one is willing to sink any money into it. So its future is up in the air.


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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 8:09 PM
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Almost no chance of that here. Our preference (excluding hydroelectric dams) is to build infrastructure that barely meets current needs, let alone future ones. It's completely routine here to have brand new schools with trailers outside providing additional, required classrooms, and that takes a especially strong inability to see past one's nose in a province with a declining student population.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Ontario Place is kind of interesting, Toronto was a common vacation destination for me and my friends in the 80s and 90s, but I don't remember Ontario Place ever coming up. I never went there once myself. It was always CN Tower, Hockey Hall of Fame, a Blue Jays game, Canada's Wonderland, Eaton Centre, etc. but Ontario Place was never on our radars.
I was there a couple times in the 90's. It had exactly the feel hipster duck describes. Some sort of event that used a portion of the space, lots of empty/liminal spaces around that, fun to look around as a kid but a bit run down.

The Toronto white elephants are real white elephants but not major given the scale of the city. And if it had appropriate infrastructure (subway 2-3x larger) the poorly planned stations would feel like less of the overall system. And maybe the Sheppard Line would have been used more if it connected up more meaningfully with a larger system.

Around here it's hard to think of white elephants and almost every "error" is in the other direction with undersized infrastructure. If you look for references to white elephants and boondoggles it shows things like "Christy Clark wasted $500k on flights" which may or may not be appropriate but may not have registered in say Illinois (or Quebec). The BC Place roof was sort of sold as a gold-plated boondoggle and maybe some specific Olympic venues are a bit underused but they're not really white elephants in the traditional sense.

Halifax also has very few and people scream about extremely small examples of "waste" (right now people complaining about concrete curbs on temporary streets or bike lanes). The biggest may be the Cogswell interchange which served no purpose and is being torn down, but it was meant to connect to an expressway that thankfully was never built. Ideally Cogswell also would have been skipped. If you look at the city you can see how the postwar expressway plan was only half realized (e.g. no third bridge so one end of the Dartmouth circumferential ends at a T with a road). They should have completed the suburban expressways while leaving the inner city alone.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 9:07 PM
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Not so sure what Edmonton's White Elephant would be... perhaps West Edmonton Mall not being built downtown?

Quote:
BAIT AND SWITCH: HOW A DEVELOPER CALLED THE TUNE FOR EDMONTON’S CITY COUNCIL
Posted on 6 January 2007 | Comments Offon BAIT AND SWITCH: HOW A DEVELOPER CALLED THE TUNE FOR EDMONTON’S CITY COUNCIL
In my research, I’ve uncovered some classic illustrations of how smart developers can mislead the people North Americans elect to govern their cities and towns. In those cases, their pursuit of their business ensures that it is they, and not the representatives we have elected, who decide the futures of our communities. In this entry I present such a case from Edmonton. It happened in the 1980s, but it is worth understanding exactly what occurred because similar events take place every year in many communities, and awareness is the first step toward self-defence.
My research shows that developers found it easy to manipulate Edmonton’s city council again and again, and to put taxpayers in the position of paying for a development over which their representatives exercised no meaningful control. They used a bait and switch tactic which, though blatantly obvious in retrospect, is not always easy to spot before it is too late. Edmonton’s story is a cautionary tale. It ought to be required reading for city councillors throughout North America, and for anyone concerned with democratic control over the development of our cities.
As I said in the introduction to this series, we should not waste our outrage on the developers, who serve their investors – and therefore do their jobs – by exploiting weaknesses in our institutions of local governance. In our democratic system, we have collectively agreed to allow ourselves to be governed in this way. We need to think about how we can change this system, and I hope to address that question in future, but a good first step is to understand the problem, and a clear illustration is a good way to start.


In the 1970s, downtown Edmonton was the retail centre of the metropolitan area, and the city had a policy of sustaining that role by supporting the viability of residential neighbourhoods near the centre of the city and placing limits on the amount of permitted suburban shopping centre development. That policy was forgotten when the Triple Five Corporation offered to develop the West Edmonton Mall, then the largest shopping centre in the world.
The development of massive amounts of new suburban retail floor space, accompanied by free parking and such attractions as a wave pool and a carnival ride, dealt a crushing blow to the downtown and in the 1980s empty buildings sprouted. As the city government desperately sought some way to restore life to the city centre, the same Triple Five Corporation that had developed the West Edmonton Mall offered a solution to the problem it had created, the development of a downtown mall, to be called the Eaton Centre.
Triple Five’s approach to dealings with the city was the time-honoured bait-and-switch tactic. It involved making an irresistible offer to obtain a massive commitment and then using local politicians’ commitment to keep them on-side, even as the more attractive features of the original offer were withdrawn, and its price increased. The key decisions concerning the Eaton Centre development were taken during two rounds of negotiations, the first taking place in 1980 and the second in 1985-86.
In the 1980 negotiations, Triple Five Corporation, in partnership with T Eaton Co Ltd of Toronto, announced plans for a massive, $500 m residential and commercial development consisting of an Eaton’s department store, a 31,500-square-metre shopping mall, three office towers of 39 to 40 storeys and two residential towers of 51 and 52 storeys, with 1,236 one- and two-bedroom rental or condominium units.
The development, taking in most of two square blocks of prime downtown land, would boast a roof-top restaurant and gardens and the residential part of the development would include a recreation centre with a gymnasium, swimming pool, exercise room, handball and squash courts and a social room. The Eaton’s store was to be the second largest in western Canada, after the downtown Vancouver store.
For Edmonton City Council, the attractions were virtually irresistible: a massive boost to the economy of the inner city, including both commercial and retail elements, together with a formidable increase in housing to help rally the eroding inner city housing sector. A development agreement was signed on October 8th.
The bait was in place. Next came the switch. In December, Nader Ghermezian, managing director of Triple Five, appeared at a council meeting to demand a re-opening of the agreement and the addition of a series of concessions. He warned that if the concessions were not forthcoming that day, the entire project would be cancelled. He had a letter from a solicitor for the Triple Five Partner, T. Eaton, which was said to confirm the urgency of the need for concessions, but which only Mayor Cecil J. Purves and two councillors were allowed to see.
Among the demands were cancellation of a redevelopment levy that the developer was to pay, and of the plans for a roof top restaurant, agreement by the city to fund sidewalks and setbacks for the project and to relieve the developer of the costs of leaseholds covering encroachments upon city property. Estimates of the cost of these concessions ranged from $5 m to $15 m. City council, galvanized by the impending collapse of such a large project, agreed to the concessions.
Enquiries by journalists later established that the letter from an Eaton’s lawyer had been a formality, designed to protect Eaton’s position in case of a break-down in negotiations, and had not been intended as a sign of Eaton’s dissatisfaction with the terms they had received, terms with which they in fact declared themselves satisfied. But the unkindest cut was yet to come. Nine months later, Eaton backed out of the deal despite the concessions, still denying it had sought them. In other words, the city had granted concessions, which it remained obligated to deliver, even as the rationale for them became moot.
With Eaton out of the picture, the development ground to a halt, but in time the bait and switch resumed. In 1983, a promised revival of Eaton Centre failed to materialize once an expansion of the West Edmonton Mall had been secured. In 1985, once again the project reappeared. Eaton declared it could proceed if the city offered further concessions and the negotiations resumed. In the course of those negotiations, the project changed substantially, first becoming grander in the “bait” phase of the negotiations and then contracting again in the “switch” phase, as final agreement neared.
In August, for example, the project’s rhetorical status was elevated from the mediocrity of second place in western Canada to the pre-eminence of world renown. According to the Edmonton Journal, it was touted as including “a major recreation centre with tennis, racquetball and squash courts, an Olympic-size pool, diving tank, indoor jogging track and gymnasium for aerobics… There would be 20 theatres, a 3000-stall parkade, and more than 45,000 square metres of department store and retail space [in place of the 31,500 mooted earlier]. ‘This will be the strongest magnet in the Province of Alberta,’ Triple Five’s Ghermezian said… ‘It will attract tourists from all over the world…'” The two apartment buildings previously promised had been transformed into a 40-storey hotel-apartment. There would be 2,000 apartments [in place of the earlier 1,236 units], and 300 hotel rooms.
By late January, 1986, with negotiations well along but not complete, the project had lost some of that sheen, with the profit-making parts of the project expanding while the non-profit-making elements contracted. It was slightly bigger overall than before (3.9 m sq ft compared with 3.85 m sq ft), but the residential component had been almost halved, from 2.276 m sq ft to 1.269 m sq ft, while the office tower component increased from 850,000 sq ft to 1.536 m sq ft and additional retail space was added. And then the pressure was cranked up. Eaton’s had said it would commit to the project provided excavation started by May 1st. In late February, with the development agreement not yet ready, city council was being asked to approve an excavation agreement in order “to maintain the timetables established by the partners in the project…” Council was becoming more and more deeply committed to the project without yet having had a chance to read the fine print.
Meanwhile, under a new Mayor, Laurence Decore, the city had committed itself to its own plan for the revival of the city’s commercial heart. One of the key elements of its plan was the 102nd St Arcade, a glassed-in mall that would have cut through the centre of the Eaton development. Triple Five was not prepared to make provision for the arcade. Mayor Decore and others argued that Council was too willing to take Triple Five’s claims at face value, that competing bids should be solicited for the development of the Eaton Centre project, that the project should be required to accommodate the 102nd St Arcade, and that the developer should be obligated to include actual housing, as opposed to promises of future housing, in the development.
As negotiations drew to a close, the main issues were the inclusion of residential units, provision for the 102nd St Mall, and the financial concessions demanded by Triple Five. Planners estimated the total cost of concessions at $30.4 m. In May, in a vote that overrode Mayor Decore and his supporters, Council agreed to the concessions, without guarantees of a residential component and without provision for the 102nd St Mall.
In the end, it proved to be Triple Five Corporation, not City Council, whose commitment to the viability of Eaton Centre was shaky. The assessment of a business publication offers some insight. By 1992, the Ghermezians had sold their share in the development to Confed Life for $1. That year, Canadian Business characterized Eaton Centre as a “money-losing mall” that, “In a city vastly overbuilt with malls…” was recovering only because new management had found “ways to steal shoppers from competing malls…” The sale of the property for $1 suggests, as does the other evidence on Eaton Centre, that it was the city that was assuming all the risk connected with the development and that Triple Five had little to lose, regardless of the outcome.
A review of the deal by Edmonton’s Auditor-General concurred that the city was the loser. Projecting the financial consequences 40 years into the future. He concluded that “…the Eaton Centre package… does not result in a positive cash flow to the city until approximately the year 2004. The net present value of this concessions package for the 40-year period is negative.” Even if someone thinks that is a good enough outcome for the public money expended, the lack of council control throughout the development process raises troubling questions about the way we govern our cities.
The facts cited in this entry are documented in detail in:
Christopher Leo. “Global Change and Local Politics: Economic Decline and the Local Regime in Edmonton.” Journal of Urban Affairs 17 (3), 1995, 277-99.
A related article, comparing Edmonton’s situation with the very different circumstances of Vancouver is:
Christopher Leo. “The Urban Economy and the Power of the Local State: The Politics of Planning in Edmonton and Vancouver.” In Frances Frisken, ed, The Changing Canadian Metropolis: Contemporary Perspectives, vol 2. Berkeley: Institute of Governmental Studies Press, University of California, 1994, 657-98.
https://christopherleo.com/2007/01/0...-city-council/
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 9:11 PM
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Although now that I think of it NS is full of rural or small town white elephants. For example the NS government built a heavy water plant in Cape Breton and spent billions to subsidize Sydney Steel. A large portion of the NS provincial debt traces back to these projects.

$718M highway twinning project through 38 km of woods in rural NS: https://mobile.twitter.com/BenMacLeo...23712489340928

(Meanwhile the federal government is threatening to pull funding from the city because the province won't pay for transit improvements.)
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 9:18 PM
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Around here it's hard to think of white elephants and almost every "error" is in the other direction with undersized infrastructure. If you look for references to white elephants and boondoggles it shows things like "Christy Clark wasted $500k on flights" which may or may not be appropriate but may not have registered in say Illinois (or Quebec). The BC Place roof was sort of sold as a gold-plated boondoggle and maybe some specific Olympic venues are a bit underused but they're not really white elephants in the traditional sense.
It's kind of the same thing here in Winnipeg, few things are ever really overbuilt or built without any real purpose. We are somewhat starved for physical infrastructure, so most things, even if unpopular, do get well used. The BRT line to South Winnipeg was derided by many but the buses on it are very busy. Same with certain highways around the region. Some like to describe CMHR as a white elephant but it is still there doing its thing.

It's a far cry from situations you see in other countries where you have entirely empty cities and other such extravagant wastes.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 9:31 PM
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Pretty much every Eaton's Centre foisted on small-city downtowns in Ontario.

Mostly White Elephants are bigger city things. Smaller cities generally don't have the capital/cachet to go bananas on much, so most White Elephants are pretty tame there.

Even the Ontario-specific ones are thin on the ground, or ended being more useful than anticipated. The nuclear generating stations at Bruce and Darlington so long derided as wasteful now keep the electricity sector relatively low-carbon emitting.

SkyDome's inherent usefulness and solid design has probably saved Ontario from several attempts at conning the province into paying for a new home for the Blue Jays, even if it was expensive.

Underused, but overbuilt highways? Not really. Bridges to nowhere? Nah. International airports of tumbleweeds? Nope.

Wide-scale propping up the auto industry in 2009? Maybe? When one looks at the decade plus of return on investment keeping those jobs, the province probably did OK on that metric.

Anyone else can think of Ontario-specific ones?
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 10:09 PM
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Mirabel is just sad. Not so much for the particulars, which were more just impractical and absurd, but for the way it was a kind of final, abortive embodiment of a certain kind of national/continental ambition.

I am actually pretty convinced by the argument that Montreal has benefitted from its transition to an eccentric, storied regional centre, but Mirabel was maybe the last time that anyone conceived of it as a potential titan.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
I am actually pretty convinced by the argument that Montreal has benefitted from its transition to an eccentric, storied regional centre, but Mirabel was maybe the last time that anyone conceived of it as a potential titan.
Eccentric, storied regional centre... sorry but this is something that could be used to describe places such as St John's, not Montreal. Or maybe you mean in the same way Copenhagen and Stockholm are both eccentric and storied regional centre?
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 10:26 PM
vanatox vanatox is offline
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Mirabel failed but it seems that the site has attracted a good number of businesses and has become a somewhat significant employment center now.
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Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 10:30 PM
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esquire esquire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanatox View Post
Mirabel failed but it seems that the site has attracted a good number of businesses and has become a somewhat significant employment center now.
Yes, and it has an important role in cargo aviation. But still, it would be like building an entire office tower, having zero tenants, and saying "well, at least it has a pretty nice Tim Hortons"
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