Combining MSAs

[Docere]

But not enough to meet the commuter threshold. But this is because the Census Bureau considers San Francisco-Oakland and San Jose to be different urban areas. If it was defined as one urban area this would be a moot point.

[skysoar]

Originally Posted by Docere

But not enough to meet the commuter threshold. But this is because the Census Bureau considers San Francisco-Oakland and San Jose to be different urban areas. If it was defined as one urban area this would be a moot point.

Yes, that is why Cleveland and Akron is not one Metro, it doesn't meet the Census Bureau's commuter threshold. New MSA designations will come out in June 2023. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I could make a case either way for Baltimore + Washington. These are clearly two very intertwined metros, but they also have two very distinct center of gravities.

They have their own media, sports teams, cultural institutions, media, transit systems etc. Even though they're close together and have a few shared suburbs, it's quite different from the Bay Area, I think.

[HyperPower]

CSA 2020 via the Census Bureau



https://i.ibb.co/BB9wpXJ/CSA-Wall-Map-Mar2020.jpg

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by skysoar

Yes, that is why Cleveland and Akron is not one Metro, it doesn't meet the Census Bureau's commuter threshold. New MSA designations will come out in June 2023. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

and physically because seperated by the massive cuyahoga valley national park, but suburbia has crept down the east and west sides of the park toward akron-canton. i personally know people who do these commutes, so i always suspected it was more than what people let on. also, there is always talk of extending the cvsrr up to the terminal tower and down to akron, cak airport and canton, as sort of a stealth commuter rail service. someday maybe.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Docere

They have their own media, sports teams, cultural institutions, media, transit systems etc. Even though they're close together and have a few shared suburbs, it's quite different from the Bay Area, I think.

There's a lot of media overlap and sports overlap. They also share a commuter rail system and airports.

[IrishIllini]

Akron not being included in Cleveland's MSA is ???

[M. Brown]

I'll speak on a possible Detroit/Toledo CSA. As someone who lived in Metro Detroit and now resides in metro Toledo, I regularly travel to Detroit, and for a while was commuting from Toledo to Detroit. Secondly Detroit and Toledo share an airport (DTW). I know there are other people who commute from Toledo to Detroit also. Is there enough to consider combining for a CSA? I am not sure, but there is definitely a connection there. Same thing with Toledo and Ann Arbor. Myself and other people travel to Ann Arbor quite often. I think before a Detroit/Toledo CSA, I think its reasonable to add Monroe County Michigan to the Toledo MSA. Except for some of the border between Sylvania and Michigan, its hard distinguish between Toledo and southern Monroe County. I always felt Toledo feels larger than the 641k its supposed to have because it doesn't account for Monroe County which in reality is definitely part of the mix (southern Monroe County anyway)

[westak]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Akron not being included in Cleveland's MSA is ???

It has to do with historical growth patterns heavily influenced in the last 50/60 years by the Cuyahoga Valley National Park that sits between the two cities(as mentioned above). The two cities are well connected now on several levels. Still, people such as myself who were born and raised in Akron do not see themselves as Clevelandlers. The feeling is mutual, as my friends from Cleveland do not see anything in Akron as an extension of Cleveland. The same goes for Akron and Canton, which are even closer and more culturally and historically connected. If Cleveland and Akron were combined, it certainly would help Cleveland's standing amongst the 3 C's from a population competition standpoint. It would not do anything for people in Akron.

[Innsertnamehere]

Another one not mentioned so far is Salt Lake City - Provo and Odgen should really be included.

San Francisco / San Jose have always been the worst offending MSAs though. Inland Empire and LA is another big offender, as is a bunch of smaller ones like Boston and Worcester, Stamford not being in NYC, etc.

The same thing happens in Canada to an extent. Oshawa isn’t in the Toronto CMA despite being a clear suburb, and even Hamilton is pushing it. At the least Burlington should probably be in the Toronto CMA and not Hamilton.

Arguably the same with Abbotsford and Vancouver.

[BigDipper 80]

Toledo is in one of the weird locations where the major city is located in the cheaper state, which probably has a limiting factor on the suburban development in southern Monroe County. In Cincinnati you have a lot of sprawl into Kentucky because it's somewhat cheaper than Ohio while still getting the benefits of being close to a major city, but living in Michigan doesn't really have the same advantages as living in Kentucky does from that cross-border standpoint.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Another one not mentioned so far is Salt Lake City - Provo and Odgen should really be included.

San Francisco / San Jose have always been the worst offending MSAs though. Inland Empire and LA is another big offender, as is a bunch of smaller ones like Boston and Worcester, Stamford not being in NYC, etc.

The same thing happens in Canada to an extent. Oshawa isn’t in the Toronto CMA despite being a clear suburb, and even Hamilton is pushing it. At the least Burlington should probably be in the Toronto CMA and not Hamilton.

Arguably the same with Abbotsford and Vancouver.

Oshawa indeed has no business being it own CMA and is part of the Greater Toronto Area. Whitby is a bedroom suburb for Toronto.

Hamilton is more of its own entity, but increasingly integrated. Burlington is transitional, a suburb of both Toronto and Hamilton. If US MSA criteria were used, Hamilton would be part of the metro.

[skysoar]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Akron not being included in Cleveland's MSA is ???

It's appropriate, other than 40 miles proximity there is little or no interaction between the two cities. Cleveland has more of an eastern feel, and having lived in Akron, it has more of an West Virginia feel with a little more sophistication. Also, they both have their own business support systems, that is why there is little commute between the two cities, being the major reason why the OMB has kept them separate MSA,s.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This is patently false.

People who live in Delaware and Chester Counties are inextricably tied to Delaware. Thousands if not tens of thousands of them work in Wilmington. Almost everyone shops there. Northern Delaware is 15 minutes from Philadelphia city limits. Atlantic City is an hour. Cape May is almost 2 hours.

This is just a ridiculous statement all around.

Once you get north of Route 1 or 322, the traveling to Delaware goes down significantly. Yes, people in Pennsylvania go to the Total Wine in Claymont or to Christiana Mall. But once you're in Philadelphia, or north, Delaware may as well be by Washington DC for a lot of people. They just don't have a connection with us. Going to the Jersey Shore is more common or more known about than going to Delaware.

Wilmington is like Philadelphia's Providence. There's a connection, but the state line creates good separation as well.